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Index, banned books and excommunications

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MariaRegina

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Christ is in our midst!

Lest our Brothers and Sisters in Christ be led astray.

I want to present the truth here about the excommunication of Nikos Kazantakis (and open it up to other authors who have crossed the line and dishonored the Church by writing scandalous books.) So, if any of you have information on this topic, please be sure to site your references.

It is well known that Nikos Kazantakis was excommunicated and that the Greek Orthodox Church refused to bury him. Usually other Orthodox Churches honor excommunications and will deny the sacraments to excommunicated Orthodox, no matter what the jurisdiction. (BTW: a funeral is considered to be the last sacrament in the Orthodox Church, as the Orthodox Church believes that a religious tonsure and funeral are sacraments.) It is somewhat surprising then, to learn that the Crete Orthodox Church which is autocephalous from the Greek Orthodox Church decided to honor him with a funeral. However, it appears that they did not bury him on consecrated ground.

One of the most influencial and humble priests in the OCA, who told me that he prefers to remain unnamed, said that Nikos Kazantakis died unrepentant and was buried on unconsecrated ground. Do you believe that this is only the Russians bashing the Greeks? Or is this evidence that Nikos was unorthodox and didn't care what the Greek Orthodox Church said? Notice that the Greeks refused to bury Nikos also. So the bashing theory as proposed by a magazine editorial doesn't work.

Here is some informaton about Nikos Kazantakis taken from the website.

What do you think of Kazantazakis' epitaph? Does it sound Orthodox?

http://www.historical-museum.gr/kazantzakis/index1.html

Kazantzakis’ chosen epitaph is inscribed on the tomb: "Den elpizo tipota. Den fovumai tipota. Eimai eleftheros." (I hope for nothing. I fear nothing. I am free.)

---

http://www.interkriti.org/culture/kazantzakis/kazantz2.htm

"His book, The Last Temptation of Christ, was considered quite controversial when first published in 1955, and prompted angry reactions from both the Roman Catholic Church which banned it, and from the Greek Orthodox Church which excommunicated him!"

[The Pope of Rome, Pius XII, placed Nikos' Last Temptation on the List of Forbidden Books = Index. The Pope rarely puts books on the Index. Note: this was before the excommunications were mutually lifted between the Greek Orthodox and the Roman Catholics by Pope Paul VI.]

---
http://www.simplyfamily.com/display.cfm?articleID=000316_SALMAN.cfm

"Not since the 1955 excommunication of Nikos Kazantzakis, modern Greece's literary giant, has a book caused such consternation. Kazantzakis, who like Androulakis was from Crete, was buried on unconsecrated ground after the church refused to forgive him for daring to question Jesus' divinity in: The Last Temptation of Christ."

[It seems like Crete has a bunch of dissidents who are quite unorthodox.]
---
http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft9602/iannone.html

[To be fair, I will quote this also, with excerpts from whole paragraphs so as to have it in context.]

The Last Temptation Reconsidered

"It is not accidental that Kazantzakis, after creating a Christ figure in The Greek Passion, was led to the figure of Christ himself, for it allowed him to resolve several longstanding preoccupations. His early existential and anti-Christian view that God does not redeem man, but man God (delineated, among other places, in his 1927 work The Saviors of God: Spiritual Exercises), is reformed into a serious attempt at Christian theology when the man in question is known to be the redeemer sent by God. The Nietz-schean nihilism of Kazantzakis' earlier writings is transcended here; though Jesus engages in the typically Nietzschean struggle to realize himself, the self he realizes is divine. Finally, bitterly disappointed by the failure of revolutionary Marxism, Kazantzakis could see Jesus as transcending politics toward the greatest revolution of all. Some commentators insist that Kazantzakis to the end was not a Christian and did not believe in God. It doesn't seem to matter in this work; his theology may not be orthodox but he believes in Christ, and that seems to suffice. ...

"Kazantzakis wrote, "I never followed Christ's bloody journey to Golgotha with such terror, I never relived his Life and Passion with such intensity, such understanding and love, as during the days and nights when I wrote The Last Temptation of Christ." Scorsese has said, with considerably less formality, that making the film helped him to know Jesus better. Many readers of the book and viewers of the film have shared these experiences to some extent and it can seem odd that Christians should want to condemn the works that brought that about. [end]

"Carol Iannone teaches at the Gallatian School of Individualized Study at New York University and has written for Commentary, National Review, and Modern Age."
 

B4Eddie

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chanterhanson said:
Christ is in our midst!


"Kazantzakis wrote, "I never followed Christ's bloody journey to Golgotha with such terror, I never relived his Life and Passion with such intensity, such understanding and love, as during the days and nights when I wrote The Last Temptation of Christ." Scorsese has said, with considerably less formality, that making the film helped him to know Jesus better. Many readers of the book and viewers of the film have shared these experiences to some extent and it can seem odd that Christians should want to condemn the works that brought that about. [end]

"Carol Iannone teaches at the Gallatian School of Individualized Study at New York University and has written for Commentary, National Review, and Modern Age."

I think the most important contributions made by The Last Temptation
are

1) A Nestorian Jesus would be "double-minded" and unstable in all his ways.

2) All the pius talk about hw WE would not have crucified our Lord is a big lie. Look what rescuing Jesus did for him in the dream.

3) A good suit doesn't need a person in it to get ahead in corporate America.
Nobody in the dream sequence was willing to accept the failure Jesus. Paul rejected him for not matching the Jesus he preached. Peter identified Lucifer, where Jesus hadn't . Life went on without him, and Paul still had his trip to Damascus, because the Nestorian Jesus was able to sin when tempted. The temptation was to simply live out a normal human life and have a family.
 
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Nikos Kazantakis's book The Greek Passion is one of the most powerful Christian novels ever written in my opinion. As I told my Godfather and Priest that it did not make the Orthodox look to good. No doubt Kazantakis caused folks to be concerned, but most artists do. His epitaph is in a radical sense what we all strive for, I want nothing, I fear nothing I am free. Let us see the passions are what causes us to hope for something and want something, fear is caused by death and its fear. If the Son of Man make you free you shall be free indeed. As Orthodox I see nothing in his epitaph that is anti or even not Orthodox, we may say it is church language but because he did not does not make it suspect.
As far as the Last Temptation of Christ is concerned I fail to see why all the fuss. The temptation to a family life no doubt affected Jesus, he after all was a true Man and lived in a society where the family was very important. Yet in the novel He rejects it.
I do not think Kazankakis is the boogie man he is made out to be at all.
Jeff the Finn
 
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MariaRegina

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jeffthefinn said:
Nikos Kazantakis's .... epitaph is in a radical sense what we all strive for, I want nothing, I fear nothing I am free.

The problem with his epitaph is that it is so vague. I want "nothing." That sounds more like Nikos' Buddhist beliefs, not Orthodox Christianity!

Those of us who call ourselves Orthodox Catholic Christians want Christ. I desire Him with all my heart. Is this an inappropriate passion? On the contrary, I think it is a proper use of the passions. The Church asks us to be recreated in Christ, not to destroy our human passions. Therefore , St. Paul writes passionately in his epistles:

St. Paul said:
Philippians 1:18-24
What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice,
19 for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,
20 according to my earnest expectation and hope, that I will not be put to shame in anything, but that with all boldness, Christ will even now, as always, be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death.
21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
22 But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.
23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;
24 yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

NEW AMERICAN STANDARD BIBLE

Perhaps I am confusing Western and Eastern theology here, if so, correct me.

Your sister in Christ,

Elizabeth
 
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MariaRegina

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FYI (please do not publish this information)

Recently a friend of mine, a scholarly Orthodox Priest in the OCA, who wishes to remain unknown, sent me this email:

There are many who assume that to be Greek means to be Orthodox, and that to be Orthodox means to be Greek, and that, therefore, anyone who is Greek or anything that is Greek must be Orthodox. This is an image that is often projected by Orthodox Greek-Americans. For example, a number of years ago many Greek-Americans went wild over Vice President Spiro Agnew because he was Greek, implying that he was Orthodox, when in fact he was Episcopalian! And recently, the Greek Orthodox Church has planned to honor Yanni, the new age musician, which could lead the general public to believe that Orthodoxy has ties to new age thought. I have seen writings which assume that Kazantzakis, simply because he is Greek, is a fine representative of Orthodox thought and life, which is not exactly the case.

Hope this clarifies things.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth
 
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B4Eddie

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chanterhanson said:
FYI (please do not publish this information)

Recently a friend of mine, a scholarly Orthodox Priest in the OCA, who wishes to remain unknown, sent me this email:



Hope this clarifies things.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

Our pro-abortion senator is supposedly Orthodox. His Polish colleague is also pro-abortion. One should not conclude from that that the Orthodox or the Catholics are pro-abortion, just as one should not conclude that heterodox Evangelists from Orlando, FL are Orthodox, either.

BTW. Is there a road map to determine which Orthodox churches in the USA are in communion with each other and which are not. A friend of mine's father is a former Russian Orthodox bishop. A few years back my friend found out from a Russian Orthodox priest he met in a grocery store that his dad's and this priest's episcopacies were under some form of mutual excomunication. The bishops in his father's episcopacy are married, if that helps identify the politics. (I know its probably for a separate thread, but let the moderators decide, as I am only asking out of curiosity.)
 
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Woodsy

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Thanks for posting, Jeff! I didn't know about the HOCNA and was planning to attend one of their churches next week (St. Nectarios). Hey, all I knew was that they had "Orthodox" in their name... :o
 
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Maximus

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Tribe said:
I am planning to visit here now.

Awesome-looking church! I wish mine looked that good!

You live up there in the Seattle area, Tribe?

I am not sure where Lynnwood, Washington, is exactly, but you may want to pay a visit to St. Paul's Antiochian Orthodox Church there and talk with Fr. A. James Bernstein (if he's still there). He is one of the two guys who originally founded Jews for Jesus (the other was Moshe Rosen). He would be a good guy to talk with since he went through the whole Messianic Jew/Fundamentalist Protestant thing before finally coming home to the Orthodox Church.
 
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Woodsy

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Maximus, that is fascinating! About Bernstein, that is!
It's also funny that JFJ doesn't publicise that little fact.
It would be interesting to speak with him, but his role in Jews for Jesus means that it may take me a while to trust his intellectual and theological thought processes.

BTW - Yup, Seattle. A very un-churched city with a whole lotta churches. Lots of very Liberal bias in the churches around here, as you might have expected. I'm trying to avoid all that.
 
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Maximus

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Tribe said:
Maximus, that is fascinating! About Bernstein, that is!
It's also funny that JFJ doesn't publicise that little fact.
It would be interesting to speak with him, but his role in Jews for Jesus means that it may take me a while to trust his intellectual and theological thought processes.

BTW - Yup, Seattle. A very un-churched city with a whole lotta churches. Lots of very Liberal bias in the churches around here, as you might have expected. I'm trying to avoid all that.

You can trust him. He was a young guy when all that JFJ stuff went on. Continued study of the Scriptures led him out of the Fundamentalist camp.

Bernstein wrote the introduction to T.L. Frazier's excellent book, A Second Look at the Second Coming (available here). In it he gives a bit of his biography. Very interesting and well written.
 
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MariaRegina

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My dearest Maximus:

Did you read Fr. Berstein's pamphlet which was published by Conciliar Press on Orthodoxy (Jewish and Christian)? It was published around 1996 and is an autobiography as well as an invitation for Jews to study Orthodoxy.

It's a great read and he's quite humorous!

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth
 
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Woodsy

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My wife and I were discussing Orthodoxy last night. She was asking why, since I was considering Orthodoxy, I didn't consider Orthodox Judaism. I replied, "Well... Jesus!" :D

In any case, I'll be reading more about Fr. Bernstein for sure. I may even plan out a trip to his church. Thanks for all the good info, everybody, as usual!


Oh, and BTW, I actually did study Orthodox Judaism for a couple of years before removing it from consideration. I tried to study it on its own terms, but what I found did not give me what Jesus has. Blah, blah, blah... it's a looong story about a loong road which has led me to where I am going today.
 
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Maximus

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chanterhanson said:
My dearest Maximus:

Did you read Fr. Berstein's pamphlet which was published by Conciliar Press on Orthodoxy (Jewish and Christian)? It was published around 1996 and is an autobiography as well as an invitation for Jews to study Orthodoxy.

It's a great read and he's quite humorous!

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

No, I haven't read that pamphlet, but I would like to.

Has he written any books that you know about?
 
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MariaRegina

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Maximus said:
No, I haven't read that pamphlet, but I would like to.

Has he written any books that you know about?

My dearest Maximus:

Father Bernstein wrote an article for Again Magazine around the same time (1996 or 1997). It was excellent and was written to reach out to the Jewish converts. It's great.

Lovingly yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

PS: There is a Jewish gentleman named Lloyd in Los Angeles who received the name Macarius at Chrismation. He's quite a character. Because he had a big Mac complete with cheese (that's not done in Jewish Orthodoxy) right after his Baptism, he was given the nickname "Mac."
 
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Maximus

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From Tribe:My wife and I were discussing Orthodoxy last night. She was asking why, since I was considering Orthodoxy, I didn't consider Orthodox Judaism. I replied, "Well... Jesus!"

Good answer! :cool:

Actually, the Orthodox Church is orthodox Judaism, if one thinks about it: the fulfilled Judaism of the faithful remnant of Israel who began the Church, the Israel of God (Gal. 6:16).

The other forms of Judaism - those that reject Jesus - are schismatic.

Let's pray their adherents come around someday soon.
 
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