Independents

Marek · Jun 18, 2010

A lot of posters here claim to be independent/third party, but I have no doubt that many of them have consistently voted either straight party Republican or Democrat in the past and will continue to do so.

Who are the real independent/third party voters here? Who did you support in, say, the last 5 presidential elections? Who do you plan on supporting in the near future?

Voegelin · Jun 18, 2010

Most of them are Democrats who don't want to admit it. New England is full of them. In many towns half the voters register as Independent but always vote liberal. Check out the quote from Ann Coulter below. Who is outraged by it? What sites call her an idiot for saying it? Liberal sites. Why? Because she exposed their game :

"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

Marek · Jun 18, 2010

Voegelin said:
Most of them are Democrats who don't want to admit it. New England is full of them. In many towns half the voters register as Independent but always vote liberal. Check out the quote from Ann Coulter below. Who is outraged by it? What sites call her an idiot for saying it? Liberal sites. Why? Because she exposed their game :

"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

Why do your philosophical principles have to completely align with either the Democrats or Republicans? I don't think I'm an idiot for agreeing with Democrats on some issues and Republicans on others, along with rejecting both parties' views on some other issues. It seems like it's the people with toaster level IQs that only believe what one party or the other tells them to.

nolongerhome · Jun 18, 2010

Voegelin said:
Most of them are Democrats who don't want to admit it. New England is full of them. In many towns half the voters register as Independent but always vote liberal. Check out the quote from Ann Coulter below. Who is outraged by it? What sites call her an idiot for saying it? Liberal sites. Why? Because she exposed their game :

"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

Ann Coulter is the idiot if she thinks that the political sphere is made up of such a black and white philosophical distinction and that the Republicans and Democrats, who are in substantial policy terms hardly that different, represent each side of the dichotomy.

Politics is multidimensional, there are a vast variety of positions to take on a wide variety of issues. When there is so much broad agreement between the two major parties (and it might not exist rhetorically, but it does in practice - the same wars, the same economic/financial policies, the same overseas prisons and illegal rendition programs, the same immigration policies, the same education policies for the most part are maintained in your country for the most part no matter who is in power).

Anyone that thinks the Democrats and Republicans represent anything like the full scope of political positions has been leading a very sheltered life and takes many, many jointly held positions for granted,

I'm not an American, but I'm a third party/independent voter. In Australian elections I have so far voted Green rather than Labor (our Democrats) or Liberal (your Republicans). I would happily vote for another third party or an independent candidate if I liked their platform.

If I was in America I wouldn't be voting for Democrats or Republicans. I wouldn't vote for a party that kept Guantanamo or international wars going, that was involved in creating the financial disaster... so I couldn't vote for either.

rambot · Jun 18, 2010

Voegelin said:
"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

OR:

What a stupid, nonexistent world Ann Coulter lives in.

Macx · Jun 18, 2010

Presidential elections aren't a reliable litmus test. Congressional votes and "lesser" offices are where it is at. Based on the Q in the OP, well, I have been an adult a good long while and never have voted for a democrat president. Working our way back:

Obama - to me he represents

More of what is wrong and none of what would fix it.

Kerry - was an unacceptable risk to my 2A rights. His ties to the VPC, his ownership by corporations. . . . his military record. . . there just was NO way, none, I could have considered voting for him. I went with Bush because he was the lesser of two evils. .. eyes open, I realize and fully acknowledge that as evil as Bush is/was it was better than the alternative. Yeah, yuk. My angst over seeing how that played out was what led me to drop the Republicans. I just couldn't do that anymore, chooosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.

Gore - Continues to embarass himself. Just plain laughable and always has been. Couldn't even really take him seriously as a canidate.

Clinton - Clinton AWB . . . for a gun rights advocate like me, need I say more. I didn't want him and he proved me right. Fortunately, that was a VERY expensive mistake for democrats in Congress and as the data panned out, that law really was a worthless piece of junk. I voted for Perot because I couldn't stomach Dole. Prior to that I had hoped G.H.B would have gone for round two.

That said, my congressional and other votes have been all over the place. I did vote for Al Franken.

kermit · Jun 18, 2010

Voegelin said:
Most of them are Democrats who don't want to admit it. New England is full of them. In many towns half the voters register as Independent but always vote liberal. Check out the quote from Ann Coulter below. Who is outraged by it? What sites call her an idiot for saying it? Liberal sites. Why? Because she exposed their game :

"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

As a Dem who has voted for plenty of Reps I'll tell you that nothing in politics requires less brain power than a straight party vote. As usual Coulter made up "reality" is the polar opposite of reality.

Archaeopteryx · Jun 18, 2010

Voegelin said:
Most of them are Democrats who don't want to admit it. New England is full of them. In many towns half the voters register as Independent but always vote liberal. Check out the quote from Ann Coulter below. Who is outraged by it? What sites call her an idiot for saying it? Liberal sites. Why? Because she exposed their game :

"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

And that is precisely why Independents will vote liberal more often, because they are alienated by Conservatives pseudo-intellectuals like Coulter who insult them by calling them 'idiots'. Coulter, without realising it, is herself part of the reason why Independents will err to the Left and not the Right.

Archaeopteryx · Jun 18, 2010

I'm not an American, but I'm a third party/independent voter. In Australian elections I have so far voted Green rather than Labor (our Democrats) or Liberal (your Republicans). I would happily vote for another third party or an independent candidate if I liked their platform.

Not meaning to derail the thread, but are you still going to vote for the Greens in this election? If polls are anything to go by it looks like they might sweep some seats from the ALP.

XTE · Jun 18, 2010

Voegelin said:
Most of them are Democrats who don't want to admit it. New England is full of them. In many towns half the voters register as Independent but always vote liberal. Check out the quote from Ann Coulter below. Who is outraged by it? What sites call her an idiot for saying it? Liberal sites. Why? Because she exposed their game :

"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

Or she could just be an idiot! Think about this and this is only an example:

Let's say I "exposed" that you were an alcoholic. You get angry at it not being true. I then proceed to tell everyone that you are angry because I exposed your alcoholism.

That is how shaky your logic is.... Some people can constantly convince themselves, no matter what, that they are always right and with logic like that above, you could easily be one of them....

jayem · Jun 18, 2010

In the last 8 Presidential elections, I've voted for 7 times for the Democrat, and 1 time for a Libertarian.

But in the last 8 Senate elections (I lived in 2 states, and this is as best as I remember) I voted 4 times for Democrats, 3 times for Republicans, and 1 time for a Libertarian.

If the Republicans would ever divorce themselves from religious conservatives, I'd be more than willing to support them. I'd happily vote for someone like Colin Powell or Olympia Snowe. I had hopes for John McCain, whose policies were quite reasonable. But then he spoiled it with Sarah Palin...

nolongerhome · Jun 18, 2010

XTE said:
Or she could just be an idiot! Think about this and this is only an example:

Let's say I "exposed" that you were an alcoholic. You get angry at it not being true. I then proceed to tell everyone that you are angry because I exposed your alcoholism.

That is how shaky your logic is.... Some people can constantly convince themselves, no matter what, that they are always right and with logic like that above, you could easily be one of them....

XTE · Jun 18, 2010

nolongerhome said:

Exactly!!!!

LOL!

Awesome...

nolongerhome · Jun 18, 2010

Art Vandelay said:
Not meaning to derail the thread, but are you still going to vote for the Greens in this election? If polls are anything to go by it looks like they might sweep some seats from the ALP.

I will have to wait for the candidates to be announced to know who my first preference vote will go to, but I will no doubt be sending my preferences to the Greens ahead of Labor and Liberal.

I live in the seat of Grayndler - if you have a look at the last election results (and I'll plug a friend's site and suggest you see them here: Grayndler – Election 2010) the Greens are close to beating the Liberal first preference vote. It will be interesting to see what the Liberals do with preferences, because it may well come down to a two-party-preferred between the ALP and Greens, with Liberal preference deciding things.

I still think it will be unlikely to see any lower house seats go Green, though. I mean, Grayndler is one of the best chances, and the ALP needs to drop 5% of the first preference vote just to lose a majority of first preferences, so I'm being a bit pessimistic so that if it does happen I will be happily wrong, if it doesn't... well, I was right

Harpuia · Jun 19, 2010

My voting record over my lifetime:

2004 - President - Bush (R), Senator - Reid (D), Congressman - Porter (R)
2006 - Governor - Titus (D), Senator - Ensign (R), Congressman - Hafen (D)
2008 - President - Barr (L), Congressman - Titus (D)
2010 (so far) - Governor - Sandoval (R), Senator - Reid (D), Congressman - Titus (D)

1. Unless Sandoval says he eats babies, I doubt I'll change my mind in the governor race. He is the right man for the job.

2. I really REALLY REALLY wanted Senator "Bow Wow" Reid out... Was ready to vote in Tarkanian and I'd be reluctant but would eventually "settle" with Lowden I think. But Angle? Are you kidding me? That's what's pains me right now.

3. Same with Titus, but not as bad. She's been... okay as a congresswoman, but any decent Republican with a good heart could outdo her. Sadly, her opponent, Joe Heck, was kicked out of his state senate position for basically ignoring the cries of the Hepatitis C outbreak several years ago.

So am I truly "independent"? You tell me.

And Sarah Palin in foresight wasn't a bad choice at all... then she opened her mouth.

Saving Hawaii · Jun 19, 2010

Voegelin said:
Most of them are Democrats who don't want to admit it. New England is full of them. In many towns half the voters register as Independent but always vote liberal. Check out the quote from Ann Coulter below. Who is outraged by it? What sites call her an idiot for saying it? Liberal sites. Why? Because she exposed their game

You say a lot of untrue things Voegelin. Unsurprisingly, you didn't disappoint in this thread. Five of six states in New England require a party registration when you vote - Vermont is the only one that doesn't (and the smallest so I doubt it would throw the tally off much).

I pulled registration data from George Mason University on those five states and took the state vote tally off Wikipedia. Guess what? Republicans were far more dependent on the support of 'independent' voters than Democrats were. Here's the numbers I got; I divided the votes for Obama and McCain respectively by their parties' registration. Here's what I got:

Even if every single registered Republican in New England voted in the last election, at least 38% of McCain supporters weren't Republicans. Assessing the Democrats by that same standard, Obama could get the same vote tally with just 18% of his support coming from independents if every Democrat voted.

You might counter: But those are percentages, Obama won all those states and the Republicans were losers. What are the actual numbers? So I ran that for you too. Votes for McCain outnumber registered Republicans by nearly 960,000 - Obama's tally outnumbered his party's registration by only 740,000. You might say - well maybe Democrats don't vote. So I ran those numbers on Connecticut (being as its your state). If every single Republican votes, and every single independent votes (just enough to get McCain his result, the rest to Obama) - I still need 70% of registered Democrats to actually get enough votes for Obama. And that scenario is ridiculious... independents tend to do worse in turnout than either Democrats or Republicans.

(these numbers are more or less consistent with data from the other 24 states where I had this information available - though most states have fewer independents and more voters registered to a major party)

"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

All I can say is don't bite the hand that feeds ya too hard.

Mr. Ripley · Jun 19, 2010

Socially liberal; economically conservative. Social issues very rarely interest me, so I stick primarily with Republicans. They both suck, though.

USincognito · Jun 19, 2010

Voegelin said:
"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

Yeah, I'm an idiot because I'm pragmatic in my principles and tend center left or center right on different policy areas because I don't entrench myself in one extreme and then tailor my weltanschauung to that extreme.

Sorry Ann Coulter, you're no John Locke.

BotanicalBob · Jun 20, 2010

I'm an independant, and have voted for libertarians, dems and repubs in state, local and federal elections. I voted for McCain, but I'm gonna vote for Dem Bill White in the Texas gubernatorial.

BotanicalBob · Jun 20, 2010

"The swing voters -- I like to refer to them as the idiot voters because they don't have set philosophical principles. You're either a liberal or you're a conservative if you have an IQ above a toaster."

Coming from someone with the IQ of a toaster, that makes perfect sense.

And that is precisely why Independents will vote liberal more often, because they are alienated by Conservatives pseudo-intellectuals like Coulter who insult them by calling them 'idiots'. Coulter, without realising it, is herself part of the reason why Independents will err to the Left and not the Right.

Coulter's bad. But the stuff people like Olberman have said about the tea partiers almost makes her look like an amateur.

2. I really REALLY REALLY wanted Senator "Bow Wow" Reid out... Was ready to vote in Tarkanian and I'd be reluctant but would eventually "settle" with Lowden I think. But Angle? Are you kidding me? That's what's pains me right now.

I've heard this from others. What's wrong with Angie?

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