Indecisive

[Jenna]

Things have been going so beautifully in my marriage for about a year now. I have been very pleasantly surprised how things have changed between my husband and myself. I can say that I have been greatly blessed.

Something happened yesterday, and now I don't know how to proceed.

A couple nights ago, I went up to bed with Anna and got her snuggled into bed late, probably 10:30pm. After reading her a story, I watched a little tv before turning in for the night. I was so deeply asleep that I wasn't even aware of when my husband came to bed, which is odd for me. It's not usual that he comes to bed in the small hours of morning.

Come morning time, the alarm went off and we had to get up and get ready for church. He didn't want to move though, so I rubbed his back and tried to gently wake him up. When he became stubborn, Anna and I tickled him awake and had a fun time playing around. When I asked for his help in getting her out of the bath that morning though, he started getting real snappy with me. The only "safe" time that we had was while we were in church, because the only times he opened his mouth was to sing.

When we got home, he used the phone, and Anna started playing with something on the table that she wasn't supposed to. Instead of taking a moment to tell her to leave it alone, he hit her in the forehead with his car keys. So, she came over to me, crying, and I had to comfort her. I told him that I thought he had done wrong, and he just got huffy. I turned back to making soup, and Anna let go of my skirt and walked around me. Then, he comes storming across the room and grabbed her roughly. Shaking her a bit, he pinned her to the fridge before I intercepted him and asked him what he thought he was doing. He said that he was roughing her up because he was tired of her sucking her thumb. Um, she's always sucked her thumb. She's only three years old.

I told him to leave her alone, and he said that he was going to work. As angry as I was, I told him that he needed to do some re-evaluating of his priorities, and that maybe it was best for him to go to work. He became so angry at me that he punched a jug of cider that was sitting on the coffee pot, sending it crashing into the dishes on the counter. I rose my voice a bit and told him not to break grandma's stuff, and that he should leave if all he was going to do at home was to take his bad attitude out on us. By this point, we had walked over to the door, and he was in my face. That brat actually pushed me a bit, and I'm not sure how I got out of the situation without being slapped. I could see it on his face that he was about to smack me. Instead, he said that he wasn't leaving because that was what I wanted. He ranted and raved at me that I was some controlling person, told me that he didn't care what I wanted, and basically told me to leave him alone. Apparently it made him real mad that we had tickled him this morning because he didn't want to get out of bed for church, and he resented the fact that I didn't just leave him to sleep. So, all of this was because he stayed up too late and didn't want to get up for church??

Through the scuffle, Anna stayed pressed against the fridge, and it really stung my heart when I looked over at her. I know that she was afraid. I gathered my purse and her coat, and we walked out to the car. As we walked out, he followed and got his work stuff out of the trunk of the car before walking over to his work van and driving off. I got Anna in her seat and then just sat there crying. It just about broke my heart when Anna said "Mommy, don't cry because daddy hits things." So, I dried my face and took her out for lunch.

When we came home later that afternoon, everything was quiet. While we were relaxing, he came home and poked his head into the room to ask if I was hungry. I told him 'no', and left it at that. Things have been uncomfortable for me ever since. He acts like nothing has happened. He acts like the day went just like normal, and that he didn't act like a complete jerk. It's left me not knowing what to do about things. I don't know if it will make things worse by bringing up the subject or not. I'm afraid that if I try to talk with him about it, it's going to cause even more hard feelings. He's going to try and blame his attitude on me, and I'm going to get upset because he's blaming me and not apologizing. That's just usually how these things go. On the other hand, I could just put it behind us and leave it alone. I'm not sure what to do.

More than anything, I'm uncertain what to do the next time that he acts stupid like this. I purposefully came between him and Annabelle so he wouldn't pick on her anymore. This time it worked somewhat well. I don't think that I'll have such a "good" response next time. I fully expect that if I have to divert his unreasonable anger again, he's probably going to hit me. I'm not afraid so much of him striking me. More than anything, I'm unsure of what to do about it if he does. I'm afraid of what incidents like this are causing our daughter to think. If there is going to be a fistfight, I definitely don't want her around. I'm considering sending her down to live with my mom for a while if he continues to act like this, just to keep her from being scared. I just don't know what to do about this. If I talk with him about it now, it may just set him off. If I don't talk to him, it makes it seem like I am condoning his repulsive and disgusting behavior.

 

[Kokopelli]

To be honest, I am at a loss for words. Is this the first time something like this has happened? Is his behavior normally hostile when he's agitated? I do not mean to sound too personal, just trying to get an idea.

You are in our prayers.

 

[AndOne]

Jenna - sounds like a mess - and I'm praying for you.

The only advice that I offer is that if you feel it is necessary to send your daughter away - then you should probably go with her. Sounds like you have a potential abuse situation ready to break wide open - you don't want to put yourself into harms way either - do you? Perhaps the best message you can send to your husband is that if he gets physical - you aren't sticking around for it. Once you can get the threat isolated and eliminated then you should start tackling the issue as to why he is getting so defensive and upset.

God Bless.

 

[mghalpern]

Jenna - sounds like a mess - and I'm praying for you.

The only advice that I offer is that if you feel it is necessary to send your daughter away - then you should probably go with her. Sounds like you have a potential abuse situation ready to break wide open - you don't want to put yourself into harms way either - do you? Perhaps the best message you can send to your husband is that if he gets physical - you aren't sticking around for it. Once you can get the threat isolated and eliminated then you should start tackling the issue as to why he is getting so defensive and upset.

God Bless.

Jenna... Behe's Boy has provided some sage advice. I would remove your daughter and yourself from this potentially explosive situation and seek counseling immediately with your husband. With the growing complexities, pressures, and demands of life, anger is growing at a rapid pace (especially among women) and needs to be dealt with as soon as it rears it ugly head. There is obviously something going on inside of your husband's head that must be revealed and resolved, but you must be in a safe place for this to happen. This breaks my heart so much to hear that he is taking his anger out on a three year old innocent little girl and her mother. Remember: better to be safe than sorry. I would leave while he is at work and make sure that you have clothing, money (cash, checkbook, credit card, etc.) and the very most precious possession you can take. I would call him as soon as he gets off of work and explain what has happened and that you will meet with him in a public place (if you feel safe enough) with a third party present to discuss what happened and where to go from here. Let him know how scared you and your daughter were/are, how damaging what he did is to your relationship, and that you are always available to discuss angry/frustrating feelings when they arise, and that physical outbursts will never be permitted/accepted. I will lift your situation up in prayer and look forward to your future posts...God bless you Jenna...Michael

 

[Jenna]

Today he came home for lunch, which isn't typical. While I was sifting through the freezer in the basement, he wrapped his arms around me and tried to hug. When I closed the freezer, he turned me around and took my arms in his hands and looped them around his neck so I would hug him. I did hold him, but I am having a hard time wanting to emotionally connect with him. I just told him that because he ignores something, that doesn't make it go away.

He is trying to ignore what has happened, and expects me just to act all cheery and happy to see him. We haven't talked about this at all though, and I don't feel very happy to see him at all. Don't get me wrong; I love him. I really do care about him and whatever it is that he is going through. However, his anger issues have a tendancy to get real old.

Last night, at Homebuilders, one of our church friends had mentioned that he was going through an anger management course. I'm thinking of talking with him and his wife to see if they would share some information about their source with me. After I find some sort of help, I can give it to Michael and see if he is willing to get his act together. I'm just afraid that he will take offense to his friends knowing that he isn't some shiny light of valor each day. I guess that would be his own decision though, just like his decision to act out in anger.

I don't believe that Michael will seriously hurt me, mostly because I am no small person. I do worry about Anna though because she is so fragile and even if he doesn't hurt her physically, I don't want her messed up for the rest of her life because she saw something that she couldn't understand. I just figure that if I stay around, I'll at least be able to direct the direction of the happenings. He can either get help and work through things with me, or he can raise his hand to me and I'll have to call the police. I don't want him to feel as though I've left him alone with this, but I won't let him beat on me or harm our baby either.

*sigh* It's just hard to know who to talk to about these kind of things. If my dad found out that Michael was getting stupid with his temper, my dad would beat him up real bad. So, I can't talk with either of my sisters. If I talk to my mom, she's going to pressure me to move down there with her, and won't understand that I won't be leaving him for good. Oh, the complexities of families......

 

[alaskamolly]

Oh, I'm sorry to hear all of that, Jenna!


Yeah, I think I'd put a little friendly-wife pressure on him to get some help from somewhere...anger management, counseling sessions w/ the pastor, SOMETHING...

I've personally seen God take much worse situations and make them beautiful, so it's not that there's no hope or anything...I wouldn't plan on moving out just yet, ya know...

It's just that he does need to be held accountable for stuff like this...carefully, of course, in a very sweet way (demanding him to go get counseling obviously won't produce results, as you well know )...

I'll be praying that God will give you specific direction as to how he wants you to react to all of this.

Love,
Molly

 

[selune]

Jenna, I'm praying for you and your family. What you've described are classic symptoms of abuse. Explosive episode followed by ignoring situation and extra affectionate behavior. Please seek help for yourself and for your husband. Protect your daughter! She will learn that it is ok to accept this hurtful behavior. I don't know the full situation, but would you want your daughter to be in a relationship where she is treated the way you described you and her being treated? I know you love Michael, but he's not treating you with love when he acts like this. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to not suffer his wrath. Peace be with you. Big hugs and please, I'm not trying to offend you, I'm truly worried for you and your Anna.

 

[bkg]

I'm admittedly at a loss here. It takes guts, courage, faith to open up to a ton of people like Jenna did, knowing that there will always be a "leave him" response looming in the background... I don't know if that's the appropriate response for this or not.

As a person whose mood swings are often severe (but thank GOD lessening daily), I would ask that the root cause be determined before taking any next steps. That might involve anger management, counseling, etc.... I don't really know. But until the root cause is determined and resolved, nothing will ever be fixed... it's like painting over a wall with a water leak - the leak is still there, regardless of how well the wall may look for a while.

I will pray for you, Jenna! You are a wise person and I know you two will find your way through this.
bkg

 

[Flipper]

Jen Jen Jenna - I've been trying to respond, but couldn't, and I guess the database crash had something to do with that.

No, this can't be dropped, and I don't think this is a need to leave him situation either -- yet. Note I said yet. This doesn't mean that you are to endure a repeat performance either.

The thing is, guys like that are going to try to make it look like it is all about you and you are being selfish about all of this. It's horrible that he took this out on your daughter, but that might also work in your favor. Approach the conversation as though it is all about HER. SHE didn't do anything wrong. SHE didn't deserve to be treated like this by her daddy who she trusts. His anger is affecting HER. Your concerns about HER well being are well founded. He needs to guarantee to you that he won't do this to HER again, or you will take steps to protect HER. Anger management classes might be a start in showing you that he does not want to do that to HER again.

I'm not making light of what he did to you. I just think that right now, taking the focus off you and placing it on your daughter might snap him out of whatever rut he is in more quickly, and then he can realize that it was hurting you as well. Also, if he makes light of what he did affecting her, then you KNOW for sure what you are dealing with, and can take action appropriately.

This is all assuming you haven't talked to him or done anything. We are all thinking about you and praying for you. Please give us updates.

 

[MrsGnomeCrusher]

Growing up and witnessing the things your little girl just witnessed, all I can say is that my heart goes out to her. These incidents, even at a young age, WILL have an effect on her and will shape her and leave her with her own set of emotional scars.

I agree with bkg, that until the root of the problem is revealed, it will be really hard to "fix" the problem. I think you need to talk to him about it. When he starts the lovey-dovey sort of behavior after an incident such as this, you need to let it known how it affects both you and your daughter. If he's not willing to talk about it and/or seek counselling with you and say you're "over-reacting" then you need to evaluate what is best for you and your daughter. He' may not willing to admit that he has a problem and he's placing the blame for his issues on you and your daughter. Sending your daughter away won't mean that he won't turn it all on you. Maybe sending your daughter away while you're in couselling will help, but sending her away and no progress isn't being made isn't facing the problem at hand.

Let him know that you are there for him and want to get through this, but do not go on and pretend nothing has happened, because it not only usually becomes worse each time, in his mind he'll probably think that what he did wasn't that bad when in reality even this one event has left it's mark on you and your little girl.

 

[Jenna]

I did talk to Michael about his outbursts, and he is very unreceptive right now. He said that he didn't do anything wrong, and that if I don't like his temper tantrums, then I need to stop making him angry. He also said that he doesn't get angry very often, only about once every three weeks.

I'm sure that I am not the only person that sees the problems with his statements. I talked with his grandma, and I'm going to approach her this afternoon to see if she would be willing to sit down with us and help me reach Michael. Everyone in his family sees his problems with anger, but he is refusing to listen to me about it. The only thing that I can think to do is to have other people acknowledge his anger issues with him, and maybe if there are enough of us, he will listen.

On a more intimate note, I am having a hard time dealing with this blame game that is going on. I have been trying so hard to honor him in our home, to always offer my respect, speak well of him, and do everything possible to best serve him. So, for me to put away so many negative behavior traits that I was raised with and to really put him first, it has been a real growing experience. For him to use me as a scapegoat and talk about me as though I am some heinous nag who is controlling and annoying, it really hurts. My heart hurts, feeling as though he resents having me around, and I'm not sure how to put those feelings away from me.

 

[MagicStar723]

Jenna, I am so sorry to hear this and I want you to know that you are in my prayers.
Maybe you could send Anna to grandma's for a weekend so you and Micheal can work things out alone. I would suggest if you did this having a close friend near by and on call just incase.
{{{Hugs}}}

 

[selune]

I'm praying for you Jenna. Dear Father, please let Michael see the hurt he is causing to his bride and his baby. Please heal Michael, Jenna, and little Anna. Please bring peace to their lives. Help them through a very difficult time. Show them Your great love and shine Your grace on them.

 

[mghalpern]

Jenna... Ultimately you are going to have to do what you believe the Lord is leading to do. That being said, I was a bit troubled that I had been the only one who had suggested that you seek safety and refuge. I thought maybe I was wrong, so last night I talked with an instructor of one of my counseling classes (he's a pastor, psychology major, and counselor) and explained what you had written in your post. I told him that I seemed to be the only one who thought that leaving (for a time) was in the best interest of you and your daughter's safety. He told me that he has counseled many women in similar situations and has offered the same advice that I gave you in my first post. He agrees that your daughter's and your safety is the first concern and that you can be totally available to Michael in the process he needs to undergo to understand where his anger and aggression stem from. I get nothing out of making recommendations to others. I'm not making these suggestions for my good, only that you are protected and that you may restore your relationship with your husband after he begins to admit and accept his issues and begins working on them. I do wish you the best. My heart goes out to you and your daughter, as do my prayers. I know you know how adamantly I am opposed to divorce and that I believe that most separations end in divorce, but in the case of potential danger to your well-being, this is the first option that is generally suggested by most professional Christian counselors. God bless you Jenna...Michael

 

[Flipper]

After your most recent post, I'm thinking Michael has very sound advice. I would have thought it sound otherwise, but I was under the impression that this might have been a one time thing that could be worked out with talking and a little counselling. Looks like it's going to take more than that.

You didn't do anything that would warrant his behavior and attitude. It is ok to be hurt and angry, but please don't allow that to cloud your judgment. You do not need to live with that. If you can't go anywhere, kick him out and tell him he can't come back until he can better control his temper and rage, learn what his priorities are, and realize how good he had it.

 

[seekfirst]

Jenna,
I'm so sorry you are going through this...my prayers are with you and your family. I too think it is wise to move out for a time being...let him no how serious this is, and that you won't allow you and your daughter to suffer this abuse from him. I know how hard of a decision this is, but just as others have mentioned you don't want your daughter to marry someone who treats her like that, and thinks that it's a "normal" way of behavior. Also, things could get worse, if not dealt with. I'm so sorry, sweetie...big ((hugs)).

 

[FranklinNoble]

Here's my two cents (and you may want a refund... ;-) )

1. Your husband needs to apologize. And not halfway. He needs to go to you and admit he was wrong, without making any excuses. Period.
2. Your husband may need to get help. He shouldn't get that rough with his 3 year old daughter.
3. Your husband shouldn't break things when he's angry. I know - because I've done this around my wife - once - and she corrected me on it. (allow me to digress... my 15 y.o. was playing his computer instead of watching his baby brother... baby brother gets hurt... mouth bleeding... very scary... I get angry, throw his computer monitor on the floor... not a good idea... and I actually try to excuse it by rationalizing that I hadn't taken it out on the 15 y.o. instead). Anyhow, breaking stuff is stupid. It's wasteful. It's needlessly violent. And it sets a bad example.
4. You have handled the situation with remarkable grace and patience, but if he doesn't shape up, you need to take drastic action to get him to realize this is serious. Yes, this means he might have to be humbled before family and/or your pastor. I don't know which would be best, but as long as his anger problem is your little secret, he's not accountable for it. As soon as it's out in the open with at least one third party, he'll have to face the reality of the fact that what he is doing is WRONG, and he'll have to change.

I will pray for you and your family.

 

[charligirl]

Oh Jenna, I am so sorry this has reared up again after such a good year in your marriage. I have to say I am of the opinion that perhaps you do need to consider physically removing yourself and Anna for a time - to protect yourself and shock Michael into viewing his actions seriously.

Obviously he has some prettyserious issues underlying all of this and it will take much time and prayer to heal them - but first he has to admit what you and his family already know - that he has a problem. The thing with anger is that it is a secondary emotion, there is always another root and that's what you need to pray about.

A thought did occur to me, from my experience, sometimes men just don't listen to advice from their wives, they need to hear it from a man. It often takes another man to come alongside and point something out for it to sink in - so perhaps you or even his grandmother are not the people to suggets an anger managment course. Pray that God will bring Godly men into his life and that God will speak to the men already in his life, words of wisdom and an insight into Michael and his issues.

I really pray that God will give you His peace and wisdom through all of this.

 

[InTheFlame]

Jenna - *huggggggggggggggg*

I think Michael (mghalpern) had some very good advice. You need to look after yourself and your daughter.

Let's look at it from the perspective of helping your husband. Your hubby's stuck in a pattern which is very bad for his spiritual, emotional and physical health. Putting responsibility on you for his own actions is just plain unhealthy in a spiritual and emotional sense. Getting so angry over relatively minor event (instead of firmly saying, 'I need to sleep. Go away.') is likely to cause him physical problems - anything from a locked jaw (from clenching his teeth when he's angry and holding it in) to heart and blood pressure problems. Because he's claiming that you're responsible for his actions, he's stuck without anything he can do to fix the problem. I'm sure this is causing him pain. He doesn't sound like a monster.

So... what can you do for him? Have a look at the book Boundaries (Cloud & Townsend). I think it'll explain some boundary concepts much better than I can. But basically, there need to be negative consequences for his behaviour - for his own good he needs to come to an understanding that he is responsible for his actions. I suspect that an effective first step could be you warning him that any future incidents like this one will simply result in you moving out for a while, until he's had anger management counselling. Then stick to it.

*hug* I hope this helps. God bless.

 

[Cordy]

Hey Jenna,
I agree with Michael. I think you need to get you and your daughter should leave to safety. If there are no consequences to his actions, he will continue them. You have to show him how wrong his actions really are and how they affect others. You also have to demonstrate that you will not tolerate this in your home. Removing yourself and saying things will not be “normal” until he gets help seems like the best idea.

I also noticed that you said you were not too concerned with him hurting you because you are not too small. Actually hurting you physically is only a portion of the problem. The fact that he even attempts to take his anger out on others (you and your daughter) is enough. I know a family where the husband had this kind of temper. He soon learned that he couldn’t take his wife (for she was no small person, and wasn’t afraid of him hurting her). But that didn’t solve the problem - he just went after the kids. Now those kids have kids, and all of their families are messed up. Most of those kids are on medication or abuse their own families. They have actually told me that if you can't take anger on your family like they do, you are missing out on the blessing of family. *shiver*. Their childhood experiences have twisted their perception and their children's perception throughout life. I just say this to emphasize that you need to not only demonstrate that you will not tolerate him picking on your daughter, but that you will not allow him to display his anger in this fashion in any way around the home.
I think he needs to successfully complete an anger management program or counselling before you attempt to return to normality.