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Originally posted by npetreley
I realize you weren't asking me, but here are some:
Psalm 2:
quote:
6 "I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill." I will proclaim the decree of the Lord : He said to me, "You are my Son ; today I have become your Father.
Revelation 14:1 implies it, since the reference is to Mount Zion and the 144,000 with Him are those protected during the time of wrath (in other words, they are living people on earth).
quote:
Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.
Isaiah 9:
quote:
And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness
Can you interpret these spiritually? Sure. But they could also be literal.
Hi npetreleyWell not according to my Bible. My Bible says that Mount Zion is the city of the Living God the heavenly Jerusalem But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jesusalem, to an innumerable company of nagels (Hebrews 12:22). It looks like you futurist have pie on your face again. There is just no way you can interpret this language to be literal.
Originally posted by Manifestation1*AD70
Originally posted by npetreley
Hi npetreleyWell not according to my Bible. My Bible says that Mount Zion is the city of the Living God the heavenly Jerusalem But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jesusalem, to an innumerable company of nagels (Hebrews 12:22). It looks like you futurist have pie on your face again. There is just no way you can interpret this language to be literal.
You're right - there is no way to interpret Hebrews 12:22 as literal. And IMO there is no way to interpret the Mount Zion in Revelation 14:1 as anything but literal. I doubt if you'll agree, but that's how I see it.
But what strikes me odd about your rebuttal is that it makes it sound like if you can find one place in the Bible that refers to Zion as symbolic or a heavenly dwelling, then ALL references to Zion must be interpreted that way. Surely you don't mean that, do you?
Originally posted by gwyyn
PRETERISM AS THE SOLUTION TO A DILEMMA: The apparent failure of these prophesies to come true has led to skepticism about the reliability of the Bible and the deity of Christ. Preterism solves this problem by maintaining that these prophesies did, in fact, have a first century fulfillment.
Hmm this above statement sais it all to why preterist are wrong in my opinion.
Originally posted by npetreley
You're right - there is no way to interpret Hebrews 12:22 as literal. And IMO there is no way to interpret the Mount Zion in Revelation 14:1 as anything but literal. I doubt if you'll agree, but that's how I see it.
But what strikes me odd about your rebuttal is that it makes it sound like if you can find one place in the Bible that refers to Zion as symbolic or a heavenly dwelling, then ALL references to Zion must be interpreted that way. Surely you don't mean that, do you?
Originally posted by gwyyn
PRETERISM AS THE SOLUTION TO A DILEMMA: The apparent failure of these prophesies to come true has led to skepticism about the reliability of the Bible and the deity of Christ. Preterism solves this problem by maintaining that these prophesies did, in fact, have a first century fulfillment.
Hmm this above statement sais it all to why preterist are wrong in my opinion. It was pulled off the below link, on the outline of preterism.
http://www.planetpreterist.com/
Originally posted by Didaskomenos
Mount Zion is a real place. It's the one of the hills on which Jerusalem was built. It was and is still used to refer to Jerusalem itself. Look it up.
Originally posted by Didaskomenos
Um, yeah...that's the one. Didn't you know that "Zion" is an idealized concept based on a real place? So it is undeniably firstly an earthly place, although it also has ideological connotations as well. The Bible doesn't say anywhere, "Mount Zion is a geographical location," but then again, it doesn't state that Israel is a geographical location - you're just supposed to know that. You did, didn't you?
Originally posted by gwyyn
PRETERISM AS THE SOLUTION TO A DILEMMA: The apparent failure of these prophesies to come true has led to skepticism about the reliability of the Bible and the deity of Christ. Preterism solves this problem by maintaining that these prophesies did, in fact, have a first century fulfillment.
Hmm this above statement sais it all to why preterist are wrong in my opinion. It was pulled off the below link, on the outline of preterism.
http://www.planetpreterist.com/
Preterism is the harvest of doubters.
If a preterist can be convinced that Christ did NOT return in 70AD, then that same preterist will tell you Jesus was a false prophet and deny Christ. They're entire faith in Jesus is based solely upon their eschatology. Take away their eschatology, and you have robbed them of the very foundation of their belief. A foundation built upon skepticism.
Originally posted by jenlu
Let me ask this....Doesn't the early church use scripture to back up their beliefs...and in turn, since you believe what supposedly early church people believed, you back up your beliefs with scripture
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