Inclusive Christianity

[PaulFan]

I am in my early 40's and I have been a Christian for 5 years. I was baptized and currently attend a United Methodist Church. I feel that God brought me to this church and my first 3 years were wonderful. I experienced great spiritual growth and my understanding of the scriptures increased dramatically after taking several bible studies offered at this church.

But then there was an upheaval in my church administration. It seems some more "moderate" members decided to vote out our 2 pastors and replace them. They did this without consulting the congregation as a whole. It was all done in a very poor manner in my opinion.

Our new pastors are great and I enjoy their teachings. However, as I continued to take courses, I realized that many of the people I sit next to in the pews are quite liberal, theologically speaking. One person told me they felt God was going to save everyone (Universalism?). And, just tonight, a person in my class told us a story about a Sunday school study they are doing based on "Inclusive Christianity". Basically, he says, who are we to decide who it is God is going to save. In other words, open the doors to the unrepentant sinner.

As I was sitting at the table tonight, someone from a previous group left one of their books behind. The title was "Finding Shades of Gray in a Black and White World".

I also feel that the pastors are not preaching enough scripture. It's as if they are story telling somewhat. There is hardly a mention of scripture in our sermons.

UGH! What is happening? What I am seeing disturbs me. I feel increasingly unsettled with what I am seeing. Is it me? Am I being judgemental by taking note of these things? I certainly do not want to judge others for their beliefs but, where do we draw the line on such glaring differences?

I hope someone can give me some advice. This is the first church I have attended as a member and I have been a Christian for 5 years. I don't want to be one of those people who jumps from church to church, but at the same time, I am feeling increasingly isolated at this church.... as if something is missing. Maybe it is me? I am so confused.

 

[General Mung Beans]

Well it seems to me the problems are with not necessrily the church but some of its members, but on the other hand shouldn't they be disciplined for holding such views?

 

[PaulFan]

Exactly my thought. I have spoken up more than once in regard to some of these issues and no one else in any of the groups I have been in has ever spoken up to defend the scriptures in such instances. It's as if they don't won't to be confrontational. That is why I wonder if it is me who is being too sensitive. But then, when someone tells me they think all are going to heaven, even unrepentant sinners, well, I don't see that in the scripture.

I understand that most people do not feel comfortable with confrontation, but, when the scripture is involved and there is a clear line which has been crossed, then I would expect that others at this church would be willing to politely point this out. One person even told me they disliked new Christians (me) because we are so gungho about things. But then, aren't we "all" supposed to be gungho about the Word of God? I mean, I am certainly not a radical in any way. I am soft spoken and polite. But, I will and do speak up.

So, in my opinion, at this church, it is becoming "anything goes", theologically speaking. But, I also lack confidence to know if I am experiencing spiritual discernment, or if I am reacting too strongly about something I should keep to myself.

 

[miamited]

Hi Paul,

Yes, you are experiencing spiritual discernment and that is a good thing. Now, unfortunately you are at a crossroads. Do you stay with this fellowship because you don't want to be seen as a church-jumper or because you've gotten to know some friends? Or do you go to the place that God would want you to be learning a worshiping in truth and Spirit with Him?

Seems like a fairly simple choice to me, but I am aware of the unease many feel when leaving a fellowship. My encouragement would be not to jump too fast. This is a good time to visit several fellowships and find out what other fellowships are like. Don't worry about your membership in a fellowship. The only membership you need be concerned with is the one that makes you a child of God and that, quite honestly, is exactly the membership that is now making you feel uncomfortable. God doesn't want His children listening to or supporting in any way, lies.

The fellowship that you are with now has, from all I can tell, gone over to the dark side and you would be wise to distance yourself from them soon. Next Sunday visit another fellowship in your town. Here are a couple of questions that you might want to ask the pastor of any fellowship that you are considering.

1. Does he believe that the word of God is the only true and inerrant revelation of God?

2. Is everyone a child of God?

3. How old is the universe?

If the answers you receive are yes, no, about 6,000 years old, you're in a good place to start setting down roots.

God bless you brother.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[PaulFan]

Ted, thank you. I have been going through this for nearly a year. I had hoped it would get better. There are many signals I have taken note of. I have been thinking it is me, maybe I am "wrong thinking". But then, maybe as I grow in Christ I am able to discern things better. It can be confusing.

I appreciate your advice. Will you pray for me? Ask God to help me to understand what it is I should do in regard to the problems I am experiencing. I think it is right for me to speak to my pastor about this also. I was waiting because he is someone new and I wanted to get to know him a bit.

Thanks again. Blessings to you.

 

[salida]

I would not be under a liberal or moderate pastor because the church will start going this direction and it will be lukewarm christian world. A friend of mine went through this and she was at this church for about 35 years. For the last 5 years it started turning liberal because there was a new pastor as the other one deceased. My advice is to leave. Maybe you can deal with it-but I sure couldn't.

 

[miamited]

Hey Paul,

Sure I will. My son is in a scout troop that meets at a local methodist fellowship. They hold their annual spaghetti lunch fundraiser there. Last year while we were waiting on things to cook and people to start arriving for lunch I wandered into one of the nearby small group rooms. I was shocked to find that they were studying a book that, quite frankly, I would burn if I found it in my library.

Sadly, a whole lot of fellowships today have strayed from teaching the plain and simple truth of God's word. In their effort to be more 'accepting' of people and trying to boost membership roles, a lot of teachers stay away from the subject of judgment and condemnation preferring the universal salvation teaching because it allows more people to be an active part.

A very dear friend of mine in Miami came from the catholic system and she used to tell me and it was part of her testimony, that when she was a catholic she was never encouraged to read the Scriptures and hadn't. However, when she left catholicism and joined a fellowship that taught straight from the Scriptures and encouraged the congregation at large to read the Scriptures on their own and she joined a few bible study groups, she was amazed at all the things she had been taught that she honestly believed were truths from God's word that she, just like yourself, was unable to reconcile.

She now is in fellowship with another fellowship and she is one of the most 'on fire' old ladies for Christ that I have ever known. Praise God!! She is always sharing her faith.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[miamited]

BTW Paul,

God has already given you instruction of what you should do.

But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning,http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-5 your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached,http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-6 or if you receive a different spirithttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-7 from the one you received, or a different gospelhttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-8 from the one you accepted, you put up with ithttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-9 easily enough.

I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who calledhttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-13 you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospelhttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-14-- which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusionhttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-15 and are trying to perverthttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-16 the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you,http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-17 let him be eternally condemned!http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-18 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted,http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-19 let him be eternally condemned! Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men?http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-20 If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Paul saw this very thing happening in the early churches of both Corinth and Galatia and his warning was stern. I don't have any reservations in saying that your position should be to seek out another fellowship. Finally, Paul, through the Spirit gives this final instruction when we, the children of God, are enmeshed with them, the children of Satan: Do not be yoked togetherhttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-24 with unbelievers.http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-25 For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-26 What harmony is there between Christ and Belialhttp://www.christianforums.com/#fn-descriptionAnchor-b ?http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-27 What does a believerhttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-28 have in common with an unbeliever?http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-29 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-30 For we are the templehttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-31 of the living God.http://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-32 As God has said: "I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people."http://www.christianforums.com/#fn-descriptionAnchor-chttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-33 "Therefore come out from themhttp://www.christianforums.com/#cr-descriptionAnchor-34 and be separate, says the Lord.

I know that this may sound harsh, but I do hope also that you understand that this is not the gospel according to Ted, but fairly clear instructions to God's children when faced with a situation where they are among those who teach lies. It is a strong offense to hold oneself up as a leader of God's people and not teach the whole truth of God's word. One of the Old and New Testament's strongest condemnations is against those who claim to teach God's truth and don't.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[LogosRhema]

The church is actually meant for the sinners, let them come in. I've had house meetings where those who were drunk on actual worldly wine came in, we opened our doors for them to enjoy the worship occurring and to observe the glory. A couple actually stayed.

Why have a closed door mentality against those who have not reached the understanding we have in Christ?

 

[Mess]

The church is actually meant for the sinners, let them come in. I've had house meetings where those who were drunk on actual worldly wine came in, we opened our doors for them to enjoy the worship occurring and to observe the glory. A couple actually stayed.

Why have a closed door mentality against those who have not reached the understanding we have in Christ?

It all sounds good in theory, there is just one problem to this. Churches, as all humans do, like to listen to people that they shouldn't listen to. Chances are, the unsaved people, just like those that spout bad teachings, will influence the teaching in a Church. If a Church is full of unsaved people, and the preacher will preach condemnation and such things, how will those unsaved people feel? Quite certainly they will feel awful, and will try to change the message. It is easier to change a message than to accept it and change your own ways. So yeah, feel free to let sinners into a Church, but remember that the Church is a place where the only true Word of The Lord Our God has to be preached. Not just the fun parts, not just the parts that the entire world accepts but the entire Word. Condemnation, salvation, hope, etc. The sad fact is the Churches have often failed to realise that the Truth is more sacred than numbers, and in fact in the long run will result in not only a better Church, but also a larger one. It has often been seen, when people get radical about God that it has an effect on the area.

As for the rest, Brother Ted is right. If I were in your position I'd see if I could find a Church that actually preaches The Word, though in fairness in these days those can be hard to find.

 

[PaulFan]

The church is actually meant for the sinners, let them come in. I've had house meetings where those who were drunk on actual worldly wine came in, we opened our doors for them to enjoy the worship occurring and to observe the glory. A couple actually stayed.

Why have a closed door mentality against those who have not reached the understanding we have in Christ?

I believe a church should be as open as Jesus Christ was. In the case of the adultress who was to be stoned, Jesus did say "let he who has no sin cast the first stone". But he also told her " has no one condemned you"... No... "Then go and sin no more".

So, yes, open our doors to the sinner BUT, teach them to sin no more (I mean, capriciously).

In other words, do not change the message of Christ in order to make the sinner feel better about their sin.

 

[PaulFan]

Hey Paul,
My son is in a scout troop that meets at a local methodist fellowship. They hold their annual spaghetti lunch fundraiser there. Last year while we were waiting on things to cook and people to start arriving for lunch I wandered into one of the nearby small group rooms. I was shocked to find that they were studying a book that, quite frankly, I would burn if I found it in my library.

Your story reminds me of the reaction I often have in studies when someone next to me begins spouting off their belief and it is not based in the bible. The doctrine of the Methodist Church is sound. Their studies are generally very good. However, I feel that the lay people simply teach what they want in regard to doctrine. The pastor can only do so much, most of the learning I have done has been in small groups and if you get a small group leader who is not scripturally sound, that is where the problem comes in. The congregation of this church seems to hold a variety of views on doctrine. I suspect this comes from a lack of proper biblical education. This is the fault of the church as a whole.

 

[LogosRhema]

I believe a church should be as open as Jesus Christ was. In the case of the adultress who was to be stoned, Jesus did say "let he who has no sin cast the first stone". But he also told her " has no one condemned you"... No... "Then go and sin no more".

So, yes, open our doors to the sinner BUT, teach them to sin no more (I mean, capriciously).

In other words, do not change the message of Christ in order to make the sinner feel better about their sin.

Teach as though you would any other day according to the Spirit. Its their deal to accept it or reject it, even if they reject it our response should be the same. Love.

 

[A New Dawn]

I am in my early 40's and I have been a Christian for 5 years. I was baptized and currently attend a United Methodist Church. I feel that God brought me to this church and my first 3 years were wonderful. I experienced great spiritual growth and my understanding of the scriptures increased dramatically after taking several bible studies offered at this church.

But then there was an upheaval in my church administration. It seems some more "moderate" members decided to vote out our 2 pastors and replace them. They did this without consulting the congregation as a whole. It was all done in a very poor manner in my opinion.

Our new pastors are great and I enjoy their teachings. However, as I continued to take courses, I realized that many of the people I sit next to in the pews are quite liberal, theologically speaking. One person told me they felt God was going to save everyone (Universalism?). And, just tonight, a person in my class told us a story about a Sunday school study they are doing based on "Inclusive Christianity". Basically, he says, who are we to decide who it is God is going to save. In other words, open the doors to the unrepentant sinner.

As I was sitting at the table tonight, someone from a previous group left one of their books behind. The title was "Finding Shades of Gray in a Black and White World".

I also feel that the pastors are not preaching enough scripture. It's as if they are story telling somewhat. There is hardly a mention of scripture in our sermons.

UGH! What is happening? What I am seeing disturbs me. I feel increasingly unsettled with what I am seeing. Is it me? Am I being judgemental by taking note of these things? I certainly do not want to judge others for their beliefs but, where do we draw the line on such glaring differences?

I hope someone can give me some advice. This is the first church I have attended as a member and I have been a Christian for 5 years. I don't want to be one of those people who jumps from church to church, but at the same time, I am feeling increasingly isolated at this church.... as if something is missing. Maybe it is me? I am so confused.

Exactly my thought. I have spoken up more than once in regard to some of these issues and no one else in any of the groups I have been in has ever spoken up to defend the scriptures in such instances. It's as if they don't won't to be confrontational. That is why I wonder if it is me who is being too sensitive. But then, when someone tells me they think all are going to heaven, even unrepentant sinners, well, I don't see that in the scripture.

I understand that most people do not feel comfortable with confrontation, but, when the scripture is involved and there is a clear line which has been crossed, then I would expect that others at this church would be willing to politely point this out. One person even told me they disliked new Christians (me) because we are so gungho about things. But then, aren't we "all" supposed to be gungho about the Word of God? I mean, I am certainly not a radical in any way. I am soft spoken and polite. But, I will and do speak up.

So, in my opinion, at this church, it is becoming "anything goes", theologically speaking. But, I also lack confidence to know if I am experiencing spiritual discernment, or if I am reacting too strongly about something I should keep to myself.

Ted, thank you. I have been going through this for nearly a year. I had hoped it would get better. There are many signals I have taken note of. I have been thinking it is me, maybe I am "wrong thinking". But then, maybe as I grow in Christ I am able to discern things better. It can be confusing.

I appreciate your advice. Will you pray for me? Ask God to help me to understand what it is I should do in regard to the problems I am experiencing. I think it is right for me to speak to my pastor about this also. I was waiting because he is someone new and I wanted to get to know him a bit.

Thanks again. Blessings to you.

Hi, PaulFan.

From reading your posts, I understand quite well what you are going through. I belonged to a church that had become quite liberal. Their departure from the truth followed exactly the same course that yours has followed. For me, it was really hard because I had been part of that church for over 40 years. But God was pulling me out of it because of the errant doctrine it was teaching. If you recognize the signs and know that they are not preaching the same gospel that Christ and the NT apostles preached, then you should go where the truth is preached. It might be hard, if you have made friends in that church, but look at it as an opportunity to teach them things they might be missing now when they ask why you have left.

I agree with what was said above. Visit several different churches to evaluate the preached word. You should also meet with the pastor and discuss their core beliefs and values. And if you have any trusted mentors, you can ask them.

I will keep you in my prayers as you try to sort this all out.

 

[Notamonkey]

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it," Matthew7:13 NIV

"Who ever acknowledges me before men, I will acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown before my Father in heaven." Matthew 10:32 NIV

"The work of God is this; to believe in the one he has sent." John 6:29

"if you do not believe who I claim to be, you will indeed die in your sins." John 8:24 NIV
"Everyone on the side of truth listens to me." John 18:37 NIV

and on, and on.

 

[PaulFan]

I will keep you in my prayers as you try to sort this all out.

Thank you. I do need prayers and guidance from the Holy Spirit on this one. I believe that the Holy Spirit *is* guiding me, but I am just being extra cautious because I am trying not to be a judgemental church jumper. People can err on that end of the spectrum too if they become too pious and judgemental. So, I am treading lightly for a year now. But, the reality is as it is. I still see these problems and they bother me, after a year of struggling with this.

 

[PaulFan]

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it," Matthew7:13 NIV

and on, and on.

Amen to that.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I think is due to a phenomenon called "reconciliation ministry".

it's the idea that one's relationship with God is between them and God, not between them, the church and God, which of course we know is false due to Matthew 18.

Of course churches can have an "open door" policy...all who wish to worship should be allowed to worship. But it's when churches start preaching that sin isn't really sin, or that it isn't the church's business to set unrepentant sinners back on the right path, that's where we run into problems.

In order to believe in this type of ministry, one has to literally throw out huge portions of the bible and they take on a more "whatever feels right" approach to faith.

 

[PaulFan]

I certainly am grateful to those who joined in this thread with your comments and suggestions. I feel better already, I really do. I wish I were in a local church filled with people just like you all!

Blessings and peace to you.

 

[Standing_Ultraviolet]

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