Incest

[sparklecat]

Is it considered abuse? Are we hurting the animal by having sex with it? Are we embarassing it or degrading it? Does it have those capabilities?

I don't know, really.

I mean we kill them for Big Macs and leather shoes, so if we're not being terribly cruel in the way we have sex with an animal, is it abuse?

Well, I'll agree that their deaths should not be overly painful. I should imagine that having sex with an animal could be painful for the animal, yes.

Ewwwwwww just writing that gives me the creepy crawlies, but it is a valid arguement. I mean seriously people on the incest thing don't yall honestly know some things are just wrong. Deep down in your gut you hear it and you know its wrong. That's not social programming, HELLO, that's your conscience.

Yeah, I'm shuddering at what I'm typing too But no - just because I don't personally like or want to do something doesn't mean it's wrong. The thought of eating certain foods makes me sick - the very thought will make me gag. That's the exact reaction I get with certain sexual practices - that I find the idea of doing it myself disgusting. But not that it is objectively wrong.

 

[sparklecat]

What if the animal's owner gives consent for the animal to have sex with someone?

Still no consent there. Parents cannot give consent for an adult to have sex with their child.

 

[Scholar in training]

Still no consent there. Parents cannot give consent for an adult to have sex with their child.

Is an animal legally the same as the child? Children can make their own decisions, animals cannot voice their opinion.

 

[sparklecat]

Is an animal legally the same as the child? Children can make their own decisions, animals cannot voice their opinion.

They cannot voice it, no. Which is why the issue of consent here is even harder to determine.

As to whether they are legally the same, no. But we were talking about consent, not what ways we could exploit animals and the legality

 

[MQTA]

Yeah, I'm shuddering at what I'm typing too But no - just because I don't personally like or want to do something doesn't mean it's wrong. The thought of eating certain foods makes me sick - the very thought will make me gag. That's the exact reaction I get with certain sexual practices - that I find the idea of doing it myself disgusting. But not that it is objectively wrong.

Right. It's hard to be objective though when you get those shudders and ewwwwwwww gross feelings. It's just hard to be objective, period, about most things. Takes a lot of critical thinking and examination to change our knee-jerk reactions to sticky topics like these.

 

[charityagape]

Incest, prostitution, beastiality, adultry, poligamy, etc. These are things that can't be looked at objectively and say well they're not right for me, but whatever floats your boat. There is right and wrong. And people know that instinctivly that's why they have these reactions, and its not just social programming.

I mean INCEST people! Really, look at the majority of posters who basically said they'd be more or less okay if they're children did it. Wow.

 

[sparklecat]

Incest, prostitution, beastiality, adultry, poligamy, etc. These are things that can't be looked at objectively and say well they're not right for me, but whatever floats your boat. There is right and wrong. And people know that instinctivly that's why they have these reactions, and its not just social programming.

I mean INCEST people! Really, look at the majority of posters who basically said they'd be more or less okay if they're children did it. Wow.

Except that some of those you listed would be things I'd be ok with doing personally. Others will disagree with all of them, yet more will disagree with the ones I'd do and agree with those I wouldn't, etc. So no, we can't say that we all instinctively know that these are wrong.

 

[MQTA]

Incest, prostitution, beastiality, adultry, poligamy, etc. These are things that can't be looked at objectively and say well they're not right for me, but whatever floats your boat. There is right and wrong. And people know that instinctivly that's why they have these reactions, and its not just social programming.

I mean INCEST people! Really, look at the majority of posters who basically said they'd be more or less okay if they're children did it. Wow.

Maybe they can't imagine it happening? It's one thing to say something intellectually... but another if/when it actually happens to you, or loved ones.

What gets me is that I think it may be a lot more common than I can fathom. I can't imagine the stories I hear being all fabrications, but I imagine there's a fair amount of that from attention seekers, or people who don't quite remember what really happened and then get influenced by people when they're older giving them false memories.

These are tough topics to discuss though. Those in the situation will have a different point of view than those observing it.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Do you know on what grounds incestuous marriages are illegal? If it's for moral reasons, I'd have no problem with legalizing this. If it's for reasons that the government actually has a right to make laws based upon, that might be different.

First Cousin marriages are legal in a number of states if either the couple has gone to genetic counselling or one of them is infertile.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

I'm curious. This is a little of topic but, if we allow gay marriages to be legal, then should we also include the legalization of marriages between brother and sister, mother and son, father and daughter, brother and brother, etc. It seems that we should. If not, what is the difference?

Father-daughter/Mother-son presumes a huge power difference and brother - sister isn't all that much less.

There is a significant question of informed free will consent.

IMO there is also a significant question of the relationship being unhealthy, brother-sister doesn't translate well to husband-wife. But I would defer to the psychiatrists on that one.