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Inappropriate derogatory terms

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cantata

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I'm one of those people who gets accused of excessive political correctness. One reason for that is that I call people out on language that I think is inappropriate or insensitive. Maybe it's because I was cut pretty deep when I was younger by people using "gay" as a derogatory term, but I am just very sensitive to language that implicitly denigrates a group of people. A particularly popular one at the moment is "retarded". Whenever I hear someone say "That's so retarded," it sets my teeth on edge. I also dislike "gay", "homo", "lame", "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]", "spastic", "mong", &c.

Do you think I'm oversensitive? Is it inappropriate to use these words in non-literal ways to describe people negatively? I think that it is. I think if I had a family member with Down's Syndrome or a mental illness, I'd be troubled by related terms being used in a derogatory way, and I am still bothered by people using "gay" in that way. I suppose that also, for me, it isn't just that I think people will be directly offended; I think continued association between mental illness/disability/homosexuality/femininity (and so on) and negativity or rudeness has a much more subtle ongoing effect on the way that we view these attributes. I believe that the way we use language shapes the way we understand the world. So misuse or unpleasant use of language can have undesirable effects on our attitude.
 

WatersMoon110

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I might also be excessively correct, but I do not find it appropriate to insult people - especially not on CF. *wink* I don't think it is appropriate to use terms like "gay" or "retarded" to refer to things or people that one doesn't like.

And I agree, the language we use can effect us. And it can effect others. Have you ever read the Malcolm Gladwell's book, Blink? It has an interesting segment about mental priming, an example of which I found on this page (because I don't know where our copy currently is):
"In front of you is a sheet of paper with a list of five-word sets. I want you to make a grammatical four-word sentence as quickly as possible out of each set. It's called a scrambled-sentence test. Ready?

  1. him was worried she always
  2. are from Florida oranges temperature
  3. ball the throw toss silently
  4. shoes give replace old the
  5. he observes occasionally people watches
  6. be will sweat lonely they
  7. sky the seamless gray is
  8. should not withdraw forgetful we
  9. us bingo sing play let
  10. sunlight makes temperature wrinkle raisins
That seemed straightforward, right? Actually it wasn't. After you finished that test - believe it or not - you would have walked out of my office and back down the hall more slowly than you walked in. With that test, I affected the way you behaved. How? Well, look back at the list. Scattered throughout it are certain words, such as "worried," "Florida," "old," "lonely," "gray," "bingo," and "wrinkle." You thought that I was just making you take a language test. But, in fact, what I was also doing was making the big computer in your brain - your adaptive unconscious - think about the state of being old. It didn't inform the rest of your brain about its sudden obsession. But it took all this talk of old age so seriously that by the time you finished and walked down the corridor, you acted old. You walked slowly. (p.53)"​
There is another section in that book that talks about priming people (with a similar list of words) to be either rude or polite. Based on the list they were give, people would either walk out on a purposely boring and long winded person, or stay and listen for 5 minutes.

I wonder if how people respond to a given post could also be effected by the very words it contains, and not just the point it is making?
 
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Oneofthediaspora

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I'm probably the complete opposite. I think that whichever word best communicates an idea is the word that should be used. Only with one golden rule. If either your intention is to offend or a likely side-effect of your language is that offense will be taken; then you should think twice.

Language is a dynamic phenomenon. It is so related to the way a person thinks that any move to control language is a move towards controlling thought. Some people may think this is desirable but they should really question whether they are in any position to make this call.

The word "gay" is such an iteresting case in point that it deserves a little paragraph of its own.
I am led to believe that in British playgrounds the word "gay" is moving away from meaning "homosexual" to actually meaning simply "crap". As in "Those trainers are gay" which means simply "those shoes are [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]" as opposed to "those shoes are what a homosexual would wear". If someone wants to victimise someone for actually being homosexual then words like "queer, queg, puffy, f*ggot, ar*se-bandit(M) or carpet-muncher(F) etc, etc.." are used. Interestingly the word "queer" which was once perjorative is now being used by some homosexuals as merely descriptive (CF the debate about the word N*gger).
Some homosexuals apparently are not too keen on this use of the word "gay" to mean "crap". Ironically the word "gay" went through a similar transformation though about 50 years ago when some straight people got upset that it no longer meant "happy or care-free" and started to mean "homosexual".

Language is in a constant state of flux and trying to stop the changes, even if they are regrettable, is as futile as trying to stop the seasons changing. As well as being futile though, I think it can be ethically questionable.

Mike.
 
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Chesterton

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I believe that the way we use language shapes the way we understand the world.

I think that’s backwards. It’s the way we understand the world which shapes the way we use language. Modern people try to shape understanding by adjusting language, but I don’t see how it can work, because words are symbols for things, not the things themselves. Whether you say a person is retarded vs. mentally challenged, or crippled vs. physically disabled, we’ll get the same mental idea. You could invent a brand new word “snarfum” for homosexuality, but once you understood the meaning, it wouldn’t change the idea it’s describing. And it wouldn’t change your perceptions of the idea – if you view it negatively when symbolized by one word, you’ll still view it negatively when symbolized by another.

Homosexuals commandeered the word “gay” because, well obviously, what could be less derogatory, and more positive than happiness? But the change of word did not change the way we understand the idea, the opposite happened – the way we understand the word changed. “Gay”, a word which once meant “happy”, is now used by some as an insult.

Do you think I'm oversensitive?

Maybe, but I think people who feel like you are well-meaning and usually have good intentions. I think ultimately revising language is simply ineffective.
 
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cantata

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I'm probably the complete opposite. I think that whichever word best communicates an idea is the word that should be used. Only with one golden rule. If either your intention is to offend or a likely side-effect of your language is that offense will be taken; then you should think twice.

Well, yes, but that's exactly my point. Often a likely side-effect is offence.

Do you think the best way to communicate your displeasure with the actions of a mentally healthy person is to call them a retard?

Language is a dynamic phenomenon. It is so related to the way a person thinks that any move to control language is a move towards controlling thought. Some people may think this is desirable but they should really question whether they are in any position to make this call.

I am not out to control people's use of language, but it is important to me to raise people's consciousness about the meanings of the words they use and the potential for harm that may come from using them.

The word "gay" is such an iteresting case in point that it deserves a little paragraph of its own.
I am led to believe that in British playgrounds the word "gay" is moving away from meaning "homosexual" to actually meaning simply "crap". As in "Those trainers are gay" which means simply "those shoes are [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]" as opposed to "those shoes are what a homosexual would wear". If someone wants to victimise someone for actually being homosexual then words like "queer, queg, puffy, f*ggot, ar*se-bandit(M) or carpet-muncher(F) etc, etc.." are used. Interestingly the word "queer" which was once perjorative is now being used by some homosexuals as merely descriptive (CF the debate about the word N*gger).

However, the word "gay" still means "homosexual", and I think that people are still aware of the connection between the derogatory meaning and the meaning associated with homosexuality. And I also think that the continued association between negativity and "gay" is damaging.

Incidentally, I prefer the word "queer" to any other term when describing my own sexual orientation. But then, the word has been reclaimed. The opposite thing is happening to "gay".

Some homosexuals apparently are not too keen on this use of the word "gay" to mean "crap". Ironically the word "gay" went through a similar transformation though about 50 years ago when some straight people got upset that it no longer meant "happy or care-free" and started to mean "homosexual".

I think that the latter transformation from "gay" meaning "homosexual" to "gay" meaning "bad" is far more problematic than the earlier transformation, because the word "gay" now denotes a distinct group of people. When "gay" meant "carefree" and came to mean "homosexual", no group of people was victimised by that transformation because there is no distinct group of happy, carefree people who are already a minority suffering social struggles. The same is not true of "gay" meaning "homosexual".

I simply find it unacceptable to use the name of any group of people, particularly an innocent minority, as a derogatory term.

Language is in a constant state of flux and trying to stop the changes, even if they are regrettable, is as futile as trying to stop the seasons changing. As well as being futile though, I think it can be ethically questionable.

Nor am I suggesting trying to halt changes in the language.

But I do think it is both reasonable and appropriate to suggest to people that someone might be offended by what they're saying.

"Gay" is actually a particularly important example because it's very likely, especially in playgrounds, that there will be people around who are struggling with their sexuality. I have first-hand experience of being very troubled by the use of the word "gay" as a derogatory term because it made me worry, as a young non-heterosexual person, about the way I would be treated if I were to reveal my sexual orientation to the people around me.

I think that’s backwards. It’s the way we understand the world which shapes the way we use language. Modern people try to shape understanding by adjusting language, but I don’t see how it can work, because words are symbols for things, not the things themselves. Whether you say a person is retarded vs. mentally challenged, or crippled vs. physically disabled, we’ll get the same mental idea. You could invent a brand new word “snarfum” for homosexuality, but once you understood the meaning, it wouldn’t change the idea it’s describing. And it wouldn’t change your perceptions of the idea – if you view it negatively when symbolized by one word, you’ll still view it negatively when symbolized by another.

Homosexuals commandeered the word “gay” because, well obviously, what could be less derogatory, and more positive than happiness? But the change of word did not change the way we understand the idea, the opposite happened – the way we understand the word changed. “Gay”, a word which once meant “happy”, is now used by some as an insult.

I think you misunderstand me. I have no problem with the words "gay" or "retarded" when they are correctly applied (to homosexuals and people with certain kinds of mental illness accordingly). What I do have a problem with is people using words like "gay" and "retarded" to insult one another.

The implication is that to describe someone as a homosexual or a mentally ill person is insulting, and that it is an appropriate manner of sniping at people. If someone described everyone they didn't like using a derogatory word for a Jewish person, would you think that was okay?

And language does affect the way we look at the world. You can read WatersMoon's post above for one example. Another one is the famous study in which people were shown a video of two cars driving into one another. Depending on what words were used in the question, people estimated radically different collision speeds. ("How fast were the cars going when they smashed into one another?" produced higher estimates than "How fast were the cars going when they contacted one another?")

Maybe, but I think people who feel like you are well-meaning and usually have good intentions. I think ultimately revising language is simply ineffective.

Yet it is now unacceptable to use all kinds of language which is nowadays deemed offensive but which was perfectly acceptable in the past.
 
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jcook922

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I'm one of those people who gets accused of excessive political correctness. One reason for that is that I call people out on language that I think is inappropriate or insensitive. Maybe it's because I was cut pretty deep when I was younger by people using "gay" as a derogatory term, but I am just very sensitive to language that implicitly denigrates a group of people. A particularly popular one at the moment is "retarded". Whenever I hear someone say "That's so retarded," it sets my teeth on edge. I also dislike "gay", "homo", "lame", "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]", "spastic", "mong", &c.

Do you think I'm oversensitive? Is it inappropriate to use these words in non-literal ways to describe people negatively? I think that it is. I think if I had a family member with Down's Syndrome or a mental illness, I'd be troubled by related terms being used in a derogatory way, and I am still bothered by people using "gay" in that way. I suppose that also, for me, it isn't just that I think people will be directly offended; I think continued association between mental illness/disability/homosexuality/femininity (and so on) and negativity or rudeness has a much more subtle ongoing effect on the way that we view these attributes. I believe that the way we use language shapes the way we understand the world. So misuse or unpleasant use of language can have undesirable effects on our attitude.

I'd probably call you oversensitive.

I call things gay and lame all the time, and I'm a supporter of gay rights. It's just a knee-jerk reaction for "Wow that's stupid." for me. I'll be the first to defend the use of calling someone a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] where it's warranted, for me it isn't necessarily used to denote femininity as much as weakness, limp-wristed shameful weakness. It doesn't really have a connection to females in my mind, although I'm sure that it differs from person to person, most folks don't think into a knee-jerk insult word that much.

I do get annoyed by overly feminine men, however. I hate that.
 
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keith99

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...I think you misunderstand me. I have no problem with the words "gay" or "retarded" when they are correctly applied (to homosexuals and people with certain kinds of mental illness accordingly). What I do have a problem with is people using words like "gay" and "retarded" to insult one another. ...

I think I've got what you are talking about, and it seems many have missed the point you are trying to make completely.

You are NOT talking about:

Calling a homosexual a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]
Calling someone of african decent a n*gger
Calling an Italian a wetback
Calling someone from Japan a Jap or a nip
Calling a Vietnameese a [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]
Calling me a fat pig (Not a bright thing as I'm old school pro wrestler fat).

What you are talking about is using terms for a group as an insult to others not of that group.

Saddly this has been going on for a long long time. Relating to Gay I can think of a published echo that is at least 40 years old. Remember Mad Magazine? I remember one where a boy was talking to his mom and the kid said on another student "He's gay". This went on for student after student including the captian of the football team and finally to the local Don Juan. When the kid called him gay mom finally told the kid that this made no sense and jus twhat did he mean by 'gay'

The punchline was 'gay' meant anyone who could do anything better than he could.

The perfect generic insult because it allowed the insulter to dismiss any accomplishments because anyone 'gay' was to low to matter.
 
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