In the news

[Letter Never Sent]

There have been a lot of stories about people with AU in the news lately, I find this one interesting:
News from The Associated Press

Interesting quote: "there are really no programs for autism-spectrum people who tangle with the law. Unlike a drunken driver who can avoid jail by going to rehab, McCollum's only option has been jail."

 

[Ludicrus]

I'm an aspie and I've always known the difference between moral right and wrong.

Do you believe that he had no control whatsoever over stealing the trains?

 

[Sabertooth]

He might have been further south on the spectrum (in his theory of mind, awareness of "other").

For myself, B.C., I could intuit most ethics via the Golden Rule, but I didn't see the immorality of unmarried, consensual sex in that lens. Fortunately, I got the rest of the story shortly after getting saved, before I was old enough to experiment with it.

 

[Ludicrus]

Okay, I see your point.

 

[dayhiker]

I was very conscious of things that would hurt other people were wrong. So for the most part I've been able to avoid doing hurtful things to other people in my life. The few I have done have bothered me quite a bit.

As for the sexual ones, I did get teaching about fornication and all that early as well. I never did understand some of the Bible teaching on sex. Especially those that made masturbation wrong. But since I also believed the Bible was God's word and it contained all that I needed to live Godly in Christ Jesus, I figured out there was no command that made that a sin like so many were teaching. So I came to see masturbation as not a sin but man made rule. That helped me so much over the years.

 

[Sabertooth]

There are still some finer points that are unclear to me, like erotic art depicting fictional married couples (only to be shared with my wife). A counselor in my church says I should avoid that in my art, so I do (just on the notion that there might be a spiritual component that I don't readily see).

I did discover that soft-core porn images were not a good source for life drawing models, even though I used them the same way (with my wife's full knowledge and blessing). Apparently, their intention to seduce (whether successful or not) causes the image to carry an inherent guilt that I didn't anticipate. (It's a Charismatic/Deliverance thing.) Non-porn images, like anatomy books, seem to be free of that. Also, I am a caregiver for my adult, autistic daughter, so it seems to be more than just the nudity involved.

These issues are probably clear to an NT, but not to me...

 

[dayhiker]

Paul says love doesn't hurt our neighbor. Now that I can understand. Some things be it nudity or hunting can cause emotional pain, so if I know that about a person then I take care to not go there. I can understand that as an expression of love.

I happen to like being nude, so I do that around my home, that easy as I live alone. But once in a while I have a visitor who I know doesn't mind me being nude, so then I'll continue to walk around nude.

I used to think quite a few rules the church taught were absolute even tho I couldn't find them in the Bible. After all everyone said they were wrong! But now I only see them as wrong if they hurt someone. Then I get well our morality isn't situational or it isn't relative. Well it that is true then you can live a moral life without really knowing anyone. But if I have to know what action will hurt someone, then I have to get to know them. Its a lot more loving to get to know people that to just get to know the rules. That's what I think Jesus was mad at the religious rulers of His day, they were rule bases and love relational based.

To me this is fulfilling the command to love God and our neighbor.

 

[Nienna_Lady_of_Tears]

My problem is I see a difference between artistic nudity and pornography and a lot of Christians do not, including my family. They also could not understand why I would always walk around in just underwear (growing up it was only myself and my mother in the house, nobody of the opposite sex.) It's a sensitivity thing. I can barely handle the feeling of clothing when I have to go out of the house. It adds to my overstimulation. So as soon as I get home, it all comes off. My husband doesn't mind, and it's another reason we're not having children (he is also an Aspie.)

 

[Sabertooth]

...Some things be it nudity or hunting can cause emotional pain,...

It is confusing to me why "hunting" would be included in this topic...

 

[grandvizier1006]

Ok...y'all, this talk of nudity is just disgusting. I thought older folks were supposed to be more squeamish about this stuff! Honestly, I can't see how you would NOT understand that nudity is a no-no, even as an Aspie. And I grew up in a house with 3 brothers.

I, for one, struggled with lust issues. The whole "unable to see a problem with nudity" thing isn't an Aspie issue, I'm afraid. I'm kind of appalled, actually. I thought we Aspies of all people would hate being naked. Clothes are a comfort to me--what I don't like is the sensory issues for being naked. My bare feet have to touch cold hardwood floors and make this weird, awkward, unpleasant noise, so I never go barefoot (I know that's probably a bad idea, but I just hate the appearance of bare feet). When I take showers I always have to press myself against the bathroom wall so that the initial blast of water doesn't bother me (it always starts out cold and takes a few seconds to warm up).

Seriously, when did this become the "older folks talk about how much they love getting naked" thread?!

 

[Sabertooth]

After one has babies (and becomes a care-giver), nudity takes on other contexts. We are still called to be modest and to flee temptation, but that doesn't account for all nudity. (As a guardian/caregiver, I have nurse-like functions toward my 20yo daughter. She looks no less pretty to me, but it's still a different mindset.)

And modesty isn't the same thing as shame. We are modest out of respect for others. I don't feel ashamed, for instance, when I go to the bathroom, bathe or get a medical exam, so (to me), shame only arises when we are naked outside of an appropriate context.

As to how the thread arrived here, the person in the OP, apparently lacked "theory of mind." Lack of "theory of mind" also impacts many Aspies in the arena of modesty and sexuality. Without a correct TOM, we sometimes misjudge where that line is. It led to me getting m0le5ted as a young teen (because someone took advantage of a position of trust). I warned all of my children about that as soon as they were able to understand.

Sure, we know to not get naked in public, but when does it become appropriate to have sexually "immodest" thoughts towards one's fiancé, for instance? And who do we dialog with regarding that? Somehow, NTs seem to know what to do, but questions like those drive us to distraction. Not all sexuality/sensuality is lascivious. Indeed, it is of God's design. We just need to conduct that part of our lives, too, in a way that honors God.

(And the propriety of M'ing is an on-going debate in many Christian circles, including CF.)

One of my hobbies/perseverations is figure drawing, so this topic is near & dear to me...

 

[grandvizier1006]

I see what you're getting at. I just wished you all hadn't described it so gratuitously.

I guess for me as a young person I feel like anything sexual should be off-limits, considering that I'm not married. And I've always been a bit self-conscious regarding my body, so I even SLEEP fully dressed.

Although personally, "figure drawing" to me sounds like an easy way to make your own porn or something, if you only deal with nudes. And if you were m0135t3d, then I don't see why you would feel comfortable doing that.

I'm so sorry that happened, BTW

And I have no idea how much TOM I have. I hope I have enough to survive, I guess, and I'd feel very offended if someone told me I had "none of it". I'd like to think I have just a little bit, and I can really feel empathy and such if I sort of know what's going on. I guess I'm on a more mild end, even though some of the "experts" insist on being dichotomous.