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WordSword

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Satan was foiled in his attempt to turn the King aside from His divine path, but he succeeded with the servants (Satan can cause a believer to commit sin—but the sin will not be willful, as a sinner’s is—NC); and so the highest and best gift of God (salvation—NC) has been the occasion for the development of the worst evil (the greater the gift, the greater the wrong by not receiving it - 1Pe 4:18—NC). For man under the responsibilities which flow from this dispensation of grace has done worse than during that of law (because more information has been given in the New Testament about God’s will than in the Old Testament, thus making Christians more accountable—NC). The wickedness of Israel caused the heathen to blaspheme the name of Jehovah (via poor examples of obedience to God—NC). But now, within the sphere of Christian profession, a worse thing is found.

The Jews always professed reverence for the Law, though he practically disobeyed. What do we see now in the lands of Christendom? The Word of God is esteemed by some no other than a myth, classed with the legends of paganism. By others the Lord is spoken of as a good, though mistaken man, esteemed as a
Hero who really wished to raise man morally, but who allowed His disciples to believe and propagate a lie to accomplish the end He had in view; as an enthusiast who suffered death rather than withdraw His offer. And the literature of the present day teems with writings containing this terrible doctrine, a blasphemy as absurd as horrible.

Nor is this confined to such writers as are professed infidels; for the truth of the Word is undermined, if not openly denied, by those who take the place of being theological teachers. All such books, by traitorous professors, are far more pernicious and dangerous than the vulgar infidelity of the last century. A distinguished feature of the present-day is that every shade of infidel thought has its representative and teacher. Theism is made the groundwork of science and taught in its halls, and being exalted to the rank of science, is applied as a corrector of God’s Book; it stops not at material things, but enters boldly the moral domain, and dares to judge what God must be, and what He must not be; decides how much—rather how little of the creation belongs to God and how much to “evolution.” God bears with this, for the present day is salvation, not judgment, and His longsuffering is the proof.

The kingdom of heaven (whenever the word “kingdom” is used it almost always refers to the New Earth, i.e. ”Thy kingdom come,” we never see the word “kingdom” when referring to the New Heaven—NC) is the rule of Christ the King over this world. But how does He reign when He is rejected? The principles of the kingdom were in grace made known to man (Eph 2:8), and after he had cast out the King, he used His name and the inherent subjugating authority belonging to it, to establish a system for himself, where the name of the King is freely used, but His rights practically ignored; where instead of righteousness reigning, all the worst corruption of nature is dominant, the name of Christ is on their lips, the truth of Christ in its life-giving power is all but unknown. Hence the present time discloses the mystery of the kingdom of heaven.

The kingdom as the scene of Christ’s power and glory was no secret; it was abundantly and clearly foretold by the prophets. Godly Jews were waiting for it, rejoicing in the hope of it (Jews who believed in God for the coming kingdom on the earth—NC). Further, it was predicted, though perhaps imperfectly apprehended, that the coming King should be despised and rejected, wounded in the house of His friends, valued at thirty pieces of silver—the price of a slave. But it was not revealed that the King should be more than nineteen hundred years absent, and that during His absence men should arrogate to themselves His authority, and establish human power buy its use (human power not God’s power); still less, that the Jews rejection of their King should be, in the wisdom of God, the occasion for the calling out of a people for a heavenly portion, who, while here passing through a path of predestined suffering, would be of all men most miserable if in this life only had they hope in Christ (1 Co 15:19). It is these two things we see now—the absence of the Lord from the scene of His future glory, and the hidden working by which He secures to Himself a people who, in spite of suffering, nay, using it rather as a means, are destine for a higher than kingdom glory (2 Co 4:177—the New Heaven will be far greater and glorious for the believers in Christ than the New Earth for the Jews who presently believe in God but not in Christ—NC).

—Roger Beacon (1220-1292)








MJS daily devotional excerpt for March 31

“Romans Six reveals our position as having died unto the principle of sin; Romans Seven teaches us our position as having died unto the principle of law. Both must be counted upon if we are to abide in Christ, and walk in the Spirit, as set forth in Romans Eight.

“We have to look at ourselves and see how far we are devotedly following the Lord Jesus, with full purpose of heart—how we can say, ‘This one thing I do’; but we must take care at the same time not to get into legal bondage by this standard. If I say, ‘Here is a rule of conduct: follow it,’ this cannot reach the heart, the affections. The ministration of the letter brings only failure, and condemnation; for it prescribes a rule which man, being a sinner, can never follow. It does not change a man; it proves him ‘ungodly and without strength’ (Christians should love God, not because of salvation, but just because of who He is. Thus having eternal gratitude to Him—NC).

“We may turn even Christ into that letter of condemnation; we may take His life, for instance, and make it our law. Nay, we may turn even the love of Christ into our law; we may say, ‘He has loved me, and done all this for me, and I ought to love Him, and do so much for Him, in return for this love,’ etc. Thus if we turn His love into a rule of life, it becomes the ministration of condemnation” (loving God for Who He is, is the greatest of all—NC).

—Miles J Stanford
 

Hoping2

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Satan was foiled in his attempt to turn the King aside from His divine path, but he succeeded with the servants (Satan can cause a believer to commit sin—but the sin will not be willful, as a sinner’s is—NC);
All sin is willful.
James makes that clear in James 1:14-15.
 
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WordSword

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All sin is willful.
James makes that clear in James 1:14-15.
I suppose you may think that "every man" means all people, but it only includes those who are "drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." If a sinner goes this far he will "bringeth forth sin."

Christians are tempted, but as Paul says he "hates" to sin (Rom 7:15). He says he doesn't want to sin in verses 16. God doesn't consider the Christian as a "sinner," because Christians do not want to sin; and it's our old man that is sinning willfully (Rom 7:20) not the Christian willfully.
 
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Hoping2

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I suppose you may think that "every man" means all people, but it only includes those who are "drawn away of his own lust, and enticed." If a sinner goes this far he will "bringeth forth sin."
The words are all inclusive.
Christians are tempted,
Yes.
but as Paul says he "hates" to sin (Rom 7:15). He says he doesn't want to sin in verses 16.
Most of Rom 7 is a narrative of Paul's pre-conversion life.
In it, he narrates a life still in the "flesh", and unable to please God with Law keeping.
God doesn't consider the Christian as a "sinner," because Christians do not want to sin; and it's our old man that is sinning willfully (Rom 7:20) not the Christian willfully.
I don't agree.
God is no respecter of person, so if a man who calls himself a Christian commits sin, nothing is hidden from God.
BTW, our old man was destroyed at its baptism into Christ's death !
It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)
 
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WordSword

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Hi, and appreciate your replies! Looks like we differ in our understanding but that of course is ok. To me, being tempted just means something is attempting to get you to do wrong, and that's as far as it goes with Christians because we do not give into temptations.
 
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Hoping2

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Amen to that !
 
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WordSword

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All sin is willful.
James makes that clear in James 1:14-15.
Hi, and thanks for your reply! To me, the phrase "when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed," manifests that it is always the persons "own lust," that causes to be "drawn away." It's my understanding that "his own lust" is indicative of his own desire.
 
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Hoping2

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Fortunately, the lusts of the converted have been crucified with the flesh and vile affections. (Gal 5:24)
What the devil uses to tempt us now, is only the memories of things that at one time drew us towards destruction.
By continuing to walk in the Spirit, the desires of the flesh are impossible to satisfy.
Thanks be to God !!!
 
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WordSword

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Amen, our sins are no longer willful (Heb 10:26)! Appreciate you reply.
 
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Hoping2

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Amen, our sins are no longer willful (Heb 10:26)! Appreciate you reply.
All sin is willful.
If it requires all that James says is necessary for something to be declared a sin, in James 1:14-15, (lust, enticement, temptation, and conception); to even consider sin as accidental is ludicrous.
 
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WordSword

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All sin is willful.
If it requires all that James says is necessary for something to be declared a sin, in James 1:14-15, (lust, enticement, temptation, and conception); to even consider sin as accidental is ludicrous.
To me, "drawn away of his own lust, and enticed," is manifesting his desire for sin. Jam 1:14,15 is showing one still in sin and not yet reborn. Some say it's not sin until it's "conceived, and bringeth forth sin." The devil cannot tempt a Christian to WANT to sin! WE sin "willfully" if we do it on purpose (He10:26).
 
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To me, "drawn away of his own lust, and enticed," is manifesting his desire for sin. Jam 1:14,15 is showing one still in sin and not yet reborn.
I agree, as the reborn resist temptation and the devil flees from them. (James 4:7)
Some say it's not sin until it's "conceived, and bringeth forth sin."
Makes sense to me.
if it produces no sin, how can it be a sin ?
The devil cannot tempt a Christian to WANT to sin! WE sin "willfully" if we do it of purpose (He10:26).
The devil just wants us to abandon God and serve him.
He does that by presenting the reborn with memories of things that once enticed us.
Those memories are just memories of a time as a loser on the road to destruction.
They no longer matter to those who have repented of sin.
 
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WordSword

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Most of Rom 7 is a narrative of Paul's pre-conversion life.
In it, he narrates a life still in the "flesh", and unable to please God with Law keeping.
Some say Paul wasn't converted until Roans 8, but he was converted in Romans 7, for nobody unsaved could write what he wrote. He merely demonstrated that the Christian still sins. Nobody lives without sinning; but now it's never what Paul wants nor desires (Rom 7:15-21).

BTW, our old man was destroyed at its baptism into Christ's death! It is written..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." (Rom 6:6)
One of the most important things to know is that the "old man" is not dead, but still on the Cross for the Christian. Christ's Cross renders its power useless to cause a believer to want to sin!
 
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Hoping2

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Some say Paul wasn't converted until Roans 8, but he was converted in Romans 7, for nobody unsaved could write what he wrote.
Agreed, much sooner in fact.
He merely demonstrated that the Christian still sins. Nobody lives without sinning; but now it's never what Paul wants nor desires (Rom 7:15-21).
I disagree.
One of the most important things to know is that the "old man" is not dead, but still on the Cross for the Christian.
That would make the Paul you just wrote was converted, a liar.
He said in Rom 6:6, that the old man was destroyed !
He wrote in Col 2:11, that the body of sins of the flesh has been "put off" !
Christ's Cross renders its power useless to cause a believer to want to sin!
Christ's cross did indeed render the "flesh's" power to incite sin powerless.
Paul again, writes..."24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
That "flesh", old man, man of sin, is gone forever for the man whose repentance from sin is true.
 
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WordSword

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The only word possibly meaning the sin nature is gone is "destroyed" in Ro 6:6. "Crucifixion" does not mean "gone." If so that would mean one no longer sins. There's nowhere Scripture refers to the old man being gone, just we dead to it, i.e. no longer desiring it.

It's nice to think it means we no longer sin; but it means we no longer want to sin.
 
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The only word possibly meaning the sin nature is gone is "destroyed" in Ro 6:6.
I agree !
"Crucifixion" does not mean "gone." If so that would mean one no longer sins. There's nowhere Scripture refers to the old man being gone, just we dead to it, i.e. no longer desiring it.
As the "destroyed" does mean "it" is gone, why does it matter if the second verse doesn't ?
If the "flesh" with its affections and lusts is destroyed, by crucifixion with Christ, what lust remains to be satisfied with a sin ?
It's nice to think it means we no longer sin; but it means we no longer want to sin.
Don't you do what you want ?
 
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You can think what you want of course but it doesn't say gone, just "destroyed" (Ro 6:6). The KJV says the old man "is crucified," not was crucified. It's still on the Cross concerning the Christian, and is retrained from the ability to cause us to desire sin. The unsaved cannot avoid the old man like we do.
 
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You can think what you want of course but it doesn't say gone, just "destroyed" (Ro 6:6).
Does "destroyed" really mean less than "gone", to you ?
The KJV says the old man "is crucified," not was crucified. It's still on the Cross concerning the Christian, and is retrained from the ability to cause us to desire sin. The unsaved cannot avoid the old man like we do.
As the bible also says the old man was buried and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, a continuing crucifixion makes no sense.
 
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Does "destroyed" really mean less than "gone", to you ?

As the bible also says the old man was buried and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life, a continuing crucifixion makes no sense.
We left the Cross and ascended with the Lord Jesus, but the sin nature is still present; we just don't want it, but God left it in us so we would continue to exercise our faith against it. The "old man" or sin nature is the closest enemy to us.

Just like God uses His Holy Spirit in us to do everything in the Life of the Lord Jesus, the enemy tries to approach us through the old man.

We do not have the Life of the Spirit but the Life of Christ (Col 3:4); but we are endued with the power from the Spirit.
 
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We left the Cross and ascended with the Lord Jesus, but the sin nature is still present;
I disagree.
I am a new creature, and "old things are passed away: behold, all things are made new". (2 Cor 5:17)
All the devil has, are the old memories; which he uses to try to lure us out of the light.
As James writes..."Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)
 
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