In the beginning was Prajapati, the Brahman...

[srev2004]

There is a verse in the Vedas: "Prajapati vai idam agre aseet" (In the beginning was Prajapati, the Brahman): "Tasya vag dvitiya aseet" (Withwhom was the Word): "Vag vai paramam Brahma" (And the Word was verily the Supreme Brahman). The idea belongs to Hinduism and in the fourth Gospel of the New Testament we read it repeated; "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.". This Sphota has its symbol in the word 'OM'. Thus, in the 'Maitrayana Upanashad' after it has been said that there is one Brahman without words, and a second, a Word-Brahman, we are told that the word is the syllable 'OM'. The sound of 'OM' is also called 'Pranava', meaning that it is something that pervades life, or runs through prana or breath.

The very central theme of 'Mandukya Upanishad' is the syllable 'OM' through which the mystery of Brahman is gathered to a point. The text of this Upanishad first treats 'OM' in terms of the Upanishadic doctrines of the three states of waking, dream and sleep, bu then passes on to the 'fourth' (Turiya) thus transporting us beyond the typical Upanishadic sphere into that of the later "Thou art the sheath of Brahman". That is, 'OM' is the container for the Supreme and, therefore, invoking 'OM' is the container for the Supreme and, therefore, invoking 'OM' is invoking the Supreme.

This is the closest thing I found.

 

[*Starlight*]

There is a verse in the Vedas: "Prajapati vai idam agre aseet" (In the beginning was Prajapati, the Brahman): "Tasya vag dvitiya aseet" (Withwhom was the Word): "Vag vai paramam Brahma" (And the Word was verily the Supreme Brahman). The idea belongs to Hinduism and in the fourth Gospel of the New Testament we read it repeated; "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.". This Sphota has its symbol in the word 'OM'. Thus, in the 'Maitrayana Upanashad' after it has been said that there is one Brahman without words, and a second, a Word-Brahman, we are told that the word is the syllable 'OM'. The sound of 'OM' is also called 'Pranava', meaning that it is something that pervades life, or runs through prana or breath.

The very central theme of 'Mandukya Upanishad' is the syllable 'OM' through which the mystery of Brahman is gathered to a point. The text of this Upanishad first treats 'OM' in terms of the Upanishadic doctrines of the three states of waking, dream and sleep, bu then passes on to the 'fourth' (Turiya) thus transporting us beyond the typical Upanishadic sphere into that of the later "Thou art the sheath of Brahman". That is, 'OM' is the container for the Supreme and, therefore, invoking 'OM' is the container for the Supreme and, therefore, invoking 'OM' is invoking the Supreme.

This is the closest thing I found.

Thanks I've found a translation of the Maitrayana Upanishad and the part which is about the Word-Brahman, but I couldn't find the verse I was looking for... Maybe it's somewhere else, I'll keep looking for it

 

[*Starlight*]

ok.... one site I've just found says that it's a verse from the Rig Veda, but it doesn't say where exactly it can be found... Another site says it's "Kathaka Brahmana 12:5". I'm trying to find it now... from what I've read, Kathaka Brahmana is a part of the Yajur Veda... or maybe not... it's confusing!

 

[srev2004]

ok.... one site I've just found says that it's a verse from the Rig Veda, but it doesn't say where exactly it can be found... Another site says it's "Kathaka Brahmana 12:5". I'm trying to find it now... from what I've read, Kathaka Brahmana is a part of the Yajur Veda... or maybe not... it's confusing!

Some verses are found in multiple literatures.

 

[*Starlight*]

Some verses are found in multiple literatures.

Do you know what the Kathaka Brahmana is? I tried looking for it with Google, and I found some references to it, but I haven't found the actual text...

 

[srev2004]

Do you know what the Kathaka Brahmana is? I tried looking for it with Google, and I found some references to it, but I haven't found the actual text...

I'm sorry the only texts I kno are the Bhagavad Gita, and the stories of Ramayan and Mahabharata. Ever since I moved to the USA I have had no cultural attachment there after, so I'm really clueless about all the various literatures, but I am very adept at Hinduism as a religion and it's beliefs.

 

[arunma]

So, could someone please tell me where this verse is found?

 

[*Starlight*]

Well, I've found a lot of websites where that verse is mentioned, but almost on all of them it's "the Vedas say...", without saying where exactly it can be found... One site said that it can be found in the Rig Veda, but I don't know where exactly... And one another site said that it's "Kathaka Brahmana 12:5", but I couldn't find Kathaka Brahmana anywhere...

 

[arunma]

Well, I've found a lot of websites where that verse is mentioned, but almost on all of them it's "the Vedas say...", without saying where exactly it can be found... One site said that it can be found in the Rig Veda, but I don't know where exactly... And one another site said that it's "Kathaka Brahmana 12:5", but I couldn't find Kathaka Brahmana anywhere...

I'm beginning to think that this is another Hindu lie that is intended to discredit Christianity by dishonest means.

But again, if anyone disagrees with me, then let him produce the verse in its appropriate context.

 

[srev2004]

I'm beginning to think that this is another Hindu lie that is intended to discredit Christianity by dishonest means.

But again, if anyone disagrees with me, then let him produce the verse in its appropriate context.

The vedas are thousands and thousands of documents, it's not as easy as skimming through the bible. Each document is the size of two or three bibles. Even if it was a lie, it wasn't a Hindu who posted it.

 

[arunma]

As I said, if you disagree that this alleged verse from the Vedas is not a Hindu lie that is meant to decieve Christians into worshiping Hindu gods, then let someone produce the verse with a reference that I can verify, and I will be silenced.

 

[srev2004]

As I said, if you disagree that this alleged verse from the Vedas is not a Hindu lie that is meant to decieve Christians into worshiping Hindu gods, then let someone produce the verse with a reference that I can verify, and I will be silenced.

The verse might be out of context or from a Vedic literature not yet translated. But there many other verses from the Vedas that basically say the same thing, but don't match the words. So it isn't really a lie, if it's not twisting the doctrine. That exact verse might not be from the vedas, but the meaning behind it is.

 

[arunma]

In other words, "I think it is from the Vedas, but I can't find it, and it may not be there at all...but the meaning is present in the Vedas." Come on Srev, even you know that when Hindus invent a verse which says "In the beginning was Prajapati, the Brahman with whom was the Word," the clear implication is that the Gospel of Saint John has copied from pagan literature.

If the verse doesn't exist, then it is intellectually dishonest for Hindus to say this.

 

[srev2004]

In other words, "I think it is from the Vedas, but I can't find it, and it may not be there at all...but the meaning is present in the Vedas." Come on Srev, even you know that when Hindus invent a verse which says "In the beginning was Prajapati, the Brahman with whom was the Word," the clear implication is that the Gospel of Saint John has copied from pagan literature.

If the verse doesn't exist, then it is intellectually dishonest for Hindus to say this.

No comment, like I said I'm not fully read about the Vedas. It could exist or it could be a lie. Now all I'm saying is, you can't call it a lie unless you went through every literature line by line and didn't find it. That's like me saying Jesus is a lie, because I haven't read the bible and asking for a verse you can't find to prove me false. Like I'm not qualified enough to speak on behalf of that verse because the only documents I have read or started reading has been the Gita, and I know about events that happened in the Ramayan and Mahabharata. For you to ask me to go and find this verse would be unfair, you know about the amount of literature Hinduism has, and that would take a lifetime for me to scan through everything.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

I could not find a verse in the Vedas that is found in the OP. It is also my humble opinion that there are some Hindus who want to make people believe that Christianity copied from Hinduism.

But you can find verses in the Upanishads which equate AUM to Brahman.

I found this in the Rig Veda, Book 10, Hymn CXXIX, which talks about creation. Its actually irrelevant to the OP, but I thought I could share the Vedic concept of creation and its questioning nature. Here is the translation...

THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.

What covered in, and where? and what gave shelter?

Was water there, unfathomed depth of water?

Death was not then, nor was there aught immortal: no sign was there, the day's and night's divider.

That One Thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from it was nothing whatsoever.

Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness this All was indiscriminated chaos.

All that existed then was void and form less: by the great power of Warmth was born that Unit.

Thereafter rose Desire in the beginning, Desire, the primal seed and germ of Spirit.

Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent.

Transversely was their severing line extended: what was above it then, and what below it?

There were begetters, there were mighty forces, free action here and energy up yonder

Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?

The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?

He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,

Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows not.

 

[arunma]

I could not find a verse in the Vedas that is found in the OP. It is also my humble opinion that there are some Hindus who want to make people believe that Christianity copied from Hinduism.

I duly commend you for speaking the truth in this matter.

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

I duly commend you for speaking the truth in this matter.

Thanks. I hope I get a chance to commend you too

 

[srev2004]

Hello

Here's a verse from the Vedas which I've read recently in some thread here and one another website, and which really interested me:

"Prajapati vai idam agre aseet

Tasya vag dvitiya aseet

Vag vai paramam Brahman"

and the translation was:

"In the beginning was Prajapati, the Brahman

With whom was the Word

And the Word was the Supreme Brahman"

Can someone tell me where exactly in the Vedas that verse is?

I'm really curious about it, because that verse is almost exactly like one very well known Bible verse...

And one more question... What is Prajapati?

9 1 summon Tvastar hither, our protector, champion, earliest-born,
Indu is Indra, tawny Steer; Pavamana is Prajapati.
10 O Pavamana, with the meath in streams anoint Vanaspati,
The ever-green. the golden-hued, refulgent, with a thousand boughs.
11 Come to the consecrating rite of Pavamana, all ye Gods,-
Vayu, Surya, Brhaspati, Indra, and Agni, in accord.

I found prajapati in the Rig veda.

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/rig_veda_book_9.htm

 

[Born_to_Lose_Live_to_Win]

Prajapati is the primordial lord of creatures, and is mentioned in Vedic, epic and Puranic literature.

In Vedic legends he is described in various ways as the creator of the world, and the creator of heaven and earth.

Prajapati is linked to the sacrificial root of creation
"either by continually creating living creatures out of
the sacrifices to the gods (Taittiriya Brahmana 1, 8; 2, 1), or as being himself the sacrifice from which life is sustained: 'Prajapati is sacrifice, for he created it in his own self-expression'" (Satapatha Brahmana 11, 1; 8, 2)

In relation to the thirty-three gods in the classical system, Prajapati was considered the thirty-fourth, embracing and including the others.

In the beginning, he arose as Hiranyagarbha.
When born, he was the one Lord of all that exists.
He supported the earth and this heaven.
What God with our offering shall we worship?…
O Prajapati, you alone have encompassed all these created things: may that for which with longing we have called upon you be ours; may we become lords of wealth. (Hymn to Prajapati, Rg Veda 10, 121)