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I'm not sure if that's really an answer to my question though.
What would a divine hello look like?
-CryptoLutheran
he gave us evidence that showing us he exist:the self replicating watch argument
I wish God would talk to me
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Yeshua Messiah, which God gave unto him, to shew unto His servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from Him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before His throne;
Rev 1:5 And from Yeshua Messiah, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
Verses 4-6 are greetings from the Father (God) and from His Son Yeshua. They are greetings to "His servants". He is saying "Hi" to them. If you would like Him to say "Hi" to you, then become one of His servants.
Whether you like God's reality or not, God giving an unambiguous 'Hi' to humanity would change everything. You would know for a fact that not being a Christian is to dis God. The world would be like high school, with a principal that some hated and some loved, yet nobody thought that the principal didn't exist. For whatever the reason God chose a world where it is easy to argue that the principal doesn't exist. This must be related to God wanting us to choose him under a low intellectual arm twisting environment IMO. I'm also of the opinion that God much prefers a world where those who reject him don't mope around their whole lives because they know for a FACT that they reject God everyday.
I'd much rather know if God exists. I know my mother exists; I've experienced her presence and influence in obvious ways. Why can't God do the same?
Afterall, one of His big schticks is 'believing in Him'. My argument is that it is better to know something is real than to believe it 'may possibly' be real.
Also, knowing God is real would save millions of people from eternal damnation in Hell.
My personal taste however would be a watered down version of what you're proposing. Even though I am intellectually content with Christianity (now, much less in the past) I would like a higher concentration of proof (yet still not enough that the atheist can't reason their way out). There is an extremely high value placed on faith. I understand that the huge majority of people who have found Jesus in history did so due to internal experiences, and faith due to having those experiences, and I understand that that's the way God prefers it...but personally as someone who naturally needed evidence for Christianity the extremely high ratio of faith involved drives me a little crazy lol. As I said I am content, but it drives my crazy how hard it is to get people to see what I see.
Exactly, there is a simple step solution God could take which would satisfy your 'higher concentration for proof'; Him saying, 'Hi' every once in awhile would suffice; or maybe He could even send one of His angels detailing His ultimate plan and our place in it. Yet, He doesn't do it.
You think He doesn't because, 'He doesn't want miserable people moping around their entire lives because they know for a fact that they are rejecting their known creator' (paraphrasing your first statement). It's better for some people to knowingly reject a real God than for some people to reject a God that might or might not exist; especially in the context of eternal damnation. Could you imagine burning in hell for eternity just because you weren't exactly sure of the the existence of Zeus.
Having said that I've experienced first hand how diving head first into faith strangely eases your intellectual doubts more & more. But trying to always debate Christianity with people can have the opposite effect. In the past I've reached points where I had good faith, and wanted to go debate/convince people!! But I became my own worst enemy by continuously trying to debate with people. When you constantly debate with people it's like you are constantly reminding yourself "There are plenty of reasons that people have for doubting!!" It can give you the opposite reaction of drawing nearer to God.
In this life I intend on drawing nearer to truth; no matter where it leads me. If there is a personal God who loves me I'd like to get to know that God better. If there isn't then I need to live my life in accordance with that fact as well.
I find it eerily strange that other people don't have this same mindset.
It's not bad to try to reach people via debate, but I think the danger is for Christians who aren't well grounded to spend all their time in the lion's den. If you're faith and reasoning for Christianity is solid as a rock then it's definitely much safer to spend lots of time in the lion's den. I'm definitely more fit for the lion's den then I was years ago, but years ago I THOUGHT I was fit for it, and I lost my faith 1,000 times hanging out in there! I also think it's easy for people to think that they are seasoned enough to be there all the time, but they're not yet. So...relating this back to my request of evidence being stronger then it is now (which is the watered down version of your request where God flat out says Hi)...perhaps more evidence would result in TOO MANY Christians spending too much of their time debating with people, as opposed to the set up now where the majority of Christians exercise & strengthen their faith first, and maybe debate someone as a distant 2nd. I don't know!! I'm with you I also try to think about why the faith/evidence ratio is set to where it's set at.
A long time ago I entered the feared lion's den as a Christian man. To my great surprise I didn't find any hungry ravenous people eating lion's. What I found was other people with differing opinions; people with different interesting and unique perspectives of life.
Retrospectively speaking, I now realize I was a lion cub entering a lion's den. I learned and grew from those so-called lions and, in turn, became one of them.
Hear me roar; little cub.
God could certainly make His presence known to the greatest skeptic, but would that help or hurt?
Is God just trying to get you to acknowledge His existence?
Would it be even a greater offence to God for you to know for certain He existed and yet refused His help?
Man has an earthly objective and acknowledge God's existence is not the objective.
Faith helps man to fulfill man's objective (it is a humbling activity) while "knowledge" tends to puff up the person (be even more self reliant).
You need to understand the objective since everything is driven by the objective.
What would a divine hello look like?
-CryptoLutheran
I'm not sure if that's really an answer to my question though.
What would a divine hello look like?
-CryptoLutheran
Yes that's my best guess, and I admit just my speculation. I too try to make sense of the jigsaw puzzle and think it's fun to try to make sense of reality...but yes that's just me speculating.You think He doesn't because, 'He doesn't want miserable people moping around their entire lives because they know for a fact that they are rejecting their known creator' (paraphrasing your first statement). It's better for some people to knowingly reject a real God than for some people to reject a God that might or might not exist; especially in the context of eternal damnation. Could you imagine burning in hell for eternity just because you weren't exactly sure of the the existence of Zeus?
I refer to the lion's den as any person leaving their safe zone environment of never being challenged on their beliefs, to entered the public square of debate where the gloves come off. I wasn't trying to say that non-Christians are mean lions, although some can be lol.A long time ago I entered the feared lion's den as a Christian man. To my great surprise I didn't find any hungry ravenous people eating lion's. What I found was other people with differing opinions; people with different interesting and unique perspectives of life.
It would be different for each person. If there is an omnipotent, omniscient deity, then it would know exactly how to reach out and touch someone. (Like Jesus allegedly did with Saul of Tarsus on the Damascus road.) I don't believe in the Biblical god (or any god.) But I'm sort of a Calvinist atheist. If a god really exists, and is the total and absolute universal sovereign (as the Abrahamic god is said to be) then nothing can occur that is not in accord with this god's grand plan for the universe. And logically, wouldn't that plan include who believes and who doesn't? So if it's part of the plan that I should believe, then this god will arrange events so that it happens. How could I resist an omnipotent god? And if I never come to belief, then either there is no totally sovereign god, or my belief was never meant to be.
In the Lutheran tradition we believe that faith is a supernatural gift given to us by God, the working of the Holy Spirit through the Means of Grace--Word and Sacrament. In that sense, faith isn't a matter of the intellect, and it isn't something that we can choose for ourselves, faith is a gift, and it is created in us by God through those Means. We aren't Calvinists, because we don't believe that God "picks and chooses" who is and isn't saved; instead we believe that God desires the salvation of all; and so at the end of everything the only reason anyone isn't saved is because they choose not to be.
Thanks for replying. Your post seems to be contradictory. Traditional Protestant doctrine, as I understand it, is that salvation is granted by God's grace through faith in Jesus as lord and savior. Sole fide, correct? And you state that faith is a gift, given by God. Which we can't choose for ourselves. So how is that anyone who doesn't have faith in Jesus, has chosen not to be saved? Logically, based on your earlier statement, if one lacks faith, that's because God hasn't granted it. Do you see the contradiction?
It's already been done on a number of occasions.
Look at it on another level, you wouldn't deny anybody in your nation the right to leave and immigrate to another country if that was their free choice to do so?
Simply put by having the all-powerful person who created heaven and earth show up isn't going solve the issues individuals and nations have through the choices they make.
It didn't work then, it would be unreasonable to believe they would work now.
What evidence can you supple that would show that you would listen and that you would then obey him?
Because by the covenant granted, you need faith to be saved. So if God says hi to you, you won't be able to be saved.
If God doesn't say any hi to anyone, then no humans ever know who God is and what He wants from humans. So the only ways which works is for God to say hi to only His chosen witnesses and for other to believe with faith what those chosen witnesses say about Him.
What would a "Hi" accomplish?
What might a divine "hello" look like that would be unmistakable and acceptable?
-CryptoLutheran
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