In a major struggle...

[UTVols345]

Ok I need help guys.

I'm a Christian...have been for awhile now. My faith is indeed my own. I was not raised in a strict Christian household and was not forced to go to church as a kid.

Lately out of curiosity, I've been studying up on science, atheism, the Big Bang Theory, etc., just to kind of see what it was about and why people believed these things. I regret ever doing this because now I'm doubting the existence of God.

I've doubted His love before, doubted forgiveness...but never doubted HIM as a whole. It is scaring the absolute crap out of me and I can't seem to bring myself out of it. I know I should be praying...but what if I'm not praying to anyone? What if this whole time I've been mislead? Like..is evolution true?

Ugh I wanna cry. Thanks for anything you can tell me!

*I am sorry if this post is in the wrong forum. I'm new here.*

 

[omanid]

You're not being misled.

This is a matter of learning how to calm yourself and reassuring yourself that Jesus does exist. Just breathe in and out and teach yourself to remain calm and firm in your faith if you really want it. It seems like you want it, so fight for it.

Evil wants to make you feel like crap. Don't let it.

 

[omanid]

Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
Isaiah 41:10

 

[soldierundercommand]

You are feeling the way you do about this because the Holy Spirit is setting off the alarm bells inside you. You are drifting into enemy territory (false doctrines/teachings) and He is keeping you, through fear of the Lord, because fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, from going away from the knowledge that is already in you.

Romans 1:19-20
19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world,[a] in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.

You know this in your spirit because God put it there. Satan is trying to blind you to this....to put your trust in man and your own understanding...like he did with Eve at the tree.

 

[UTVols345]

You guys are awesome.

 

[Johnnz]

Get some good information. Two very good sites are veritas.org (USA based) and veritas.org (UK based) There is a talk by Hugh Ross on the UK site which should get you thinking.

John
NZ

 

[day time]

Ok I need help guys.

I'm a Christian...have been for awhile now. My faith is indeed my own. I was not raised in a strict Christian household and was not forced to go to church as a kid.

Lately out of curiosity, I've been studying up on science, atheism, the Big Bang Theory, etc., just to kind of see what it was about and why people believed these things. I regret ever doing this because now I'm doubting the existence of God.

I've doubted His love before, doubted forgiveness...but never doubted HIM as a whole. It is scaring the absolute crap out of me and I can't seem to bring myself out of it. I know I should be praying...but what if I'm not praying to anyone? What if this whole time I've been mislead? Like..is evolution true?

Ugh I wanna cry. Thanks for anything you can tell me!

*I am sorry if this post is in the wrong forum. I'm new here.*

Don't be afraid to question things In fact, I would encourage you to question everything you wish to know the answers too .... when and if you get to have some of them answered, it can be rather awe inspiring

I'm going to talk about myself lol ... but it's to perhaps give you something to relate to, if you wish ...:

My faith is my own also, if you want to put it that way. My dad went back and forth between being an atheist and agnostic, and my mother was "baptist by region" and never pushed anything on me whatsoever .... I was allowed to question anything and everything. I'm not trying to paint a rosy childhood picture here ... to the contrary lol. What I was exposed to is another issue entirely ... but when it came to faith/religion/spirituality .... I was a Harry Potter living amongst muggles and this worked out in my favor in the long run, because I didn't have answers shoved down my throat that didn't make any sense ... and no one was trying to get me to repeat mantras to myself over and over about what I was supposed to be convinced was true, as opposed to finding out what was true for myself.

I had that happen in other areas lol .... but luckily not faith.

One thing I've noticed ... is that I was never content to "guess" ... I wanted to know. If there was a being powerful enough to send me to hell for eternity, I wanted to know for certain whether or not that was my destination and what I could do to prevent it. If there was a being capable of healing a blind man, and I could do this also, I wanted to know for certain. If I could have my suffering explained to me, if I could see an angel ... if I had to submit my life and try to rid myself of sin, or if I had to submit myself to living a fundamentalist type of lifestyle .... I wanted to know for certain if whether or not what I was doing was actually accomplishing anything or not. I wanted to see God for myself, angels for myself, Jesus for myself ... I wanted to know if Judaeo-Christianity was a lie, if the Bible was pointless, if the Bible was the main gist ... if I needed to be reading the Quran instead, or claiming to be a starseed from the planet Arcturus ... whatever it was, I wanted to know.

One thing I've noticed .... is that I typically start out with "questions", and a bit of faith as to what is true or not .... and then I have an opportunity to "test it". To step out in that faith, and basically put my life in a situation that requires that faith to either be accurate, or not. True, or not. It almost always involves me trusting "God" ... "invisibly". Placing a bet on the table, so to speak, and one that I could lose. It's almost always one that is important to me not to lose of course .... but, *every single time* I have done that, I have seen amazing things. I have seen things that many Christians, believe it or not .... say is impossible lol. I have seen things that others say do not exist, both believer and non. I've experienced and seen "evidence" .... to degrees that satisfy me and beyond.

In other words .... I've noticed that when I step out in faith, it's kind of like going down a rabbit hole ... and while I'm going down that rabbit hole, there comes a point where I realize I could be wrong, I could lose my "bet", I might want to stop believing and turn around .... but everytime I've continued down that rabbit hole to the end, chasing a pot of gold that even believers sometimes say doesn't exist ... I have found a pot of gold. Sometimes in dramatic, striking ways. Other times in simplistic ways.

And I'm greatly simplyfying what I'm saying here haha .... I have been through the ringer and then some. I'm NOT trying to paint a rosy picture, I'm just saying that for me, when it came down to deciding whether or not I was going to merely have faith, or whether or not I was going to act on it and turn that faith into "knowing" or "failure" .... it has turned into knowing for me. And it's come with "evidence".

But here's the thing with "faith" and "belief". Knowing something exists or not ... is merely the first step. Do you want to know if God exists ? Do you want to know if Jesus really lived ? Do you want to know this or that ? Do you want to take someone else at their word, or do you want to find out for yourself ? Do you want to be afraid of being wrong, or confident in being right .... or maybe even better yet .... not being concerned either way ?

I'm sure there is someone in your life that you love, yes ?

Why do you believe they love you ? Why do you have faith to trust them ? Have you always ? What if they disappointed you ... let you down .... or perhaps even let your life go through great suffering .... would you still believe they loved you ? Would you still "believe in them ?"

Knowing they exist ... is one thing .... trusting them, following them, believing in them ... is another.

I came to believe in the existence of the supernatural, because I had evidence ... and I thought it all pointed to one thing, and I was partially wrong. So then I went about trying to prove it all another way ... and I did so for myself. And I spent hours debating and arguing with people over my "proof" ... but then I realized that again, I still didn't know everything I thought I knew. Merely knowing there was a supernatural "God" wasn't enough ... this only raised more questions. And after having some of those answered, and seeing how I fit into the picture at certain times ... again, it only raised more questions.

The rabbit hole continues .... it ends, but new ones branch off from those. And there *do* come those rabbit holes, that throw into question everything you thought you knew, everything you thought was firm and unshakable .... and you shut your mouth, and sit back, and start to take all the same things in again from a new perspective ....

Continually, I learn the value of faith .... believing and trusting when there isn't a lot of reasons to, and doubt seems more abundant than you wish. All the miracles in the world, and having some of your most difficult questions answered .... don't always equal this 100% certainty at every point along the way. Because relationships ... even between created and Creator .... are dynamic, and love is somewhat built upon *risk* ... the risk that you might get hurt, disappointed, let down ....

Sorry if I went on a bit too long lol ... I was just trying to give you points to relate to that might help. I hope that if you seek proofs and facts, and answers, you find them. Some might take some time before you get them, some might not . I hope you find peace within faith ... and even if you choose not to believe right now, for whatever your reasons ... that's okay too. Take your time ...

 

[eachallberg]

Peace, and grace be to you,
Welcome to CF.

Lately out of curiosity, I've been studying up on science, atheism, the Big Bang Theory, etc., just to kind of see what it was about and why people believed these things. I regret ever doing this because now I'm doubting the existence of God...

And now your doubting because you've been taking in doubt.
Science is man calling it as he sees it. Like Einstein said, "We still do not know one thousandth of one percent of what nature has revealed to us.”
Man sees very little, and thats an over statement.
Atheism is doubt, because the opposite is faith.
The big bang theory needs a theory on who made the ignition for the bang.
The chance of the universe coming together is the same as a hurricane blowing through a scrap yard and by chance a 747 airliner is put together.

And Einstein also said he doesn't believe in math. I would also add science, atheism, theoretical science, ect...
Hate was is evil, cling to whats good.

Peace.

 

[child0fg0d88]

As far as evolution goes, here is something to think about. If we evolved from chimpanzees, why are there still chimpanzees? Or why at least are there not some form of hominid in the transition period from evolving from chimpanzee to human, like somewhere in the middle?

 

[JohnMarsten]

You would be surprised how many flaws are to be found in the evolution theory and stuff. many things are indeed arbitrary... you might wanna check out Dr.Dino, he has some good stuff out there which question the whole theories that go against your faith...

 

[JohnMarsten]

As far as evolution goes, here is something to think about. If we evolved from chimpanzees, why are there still chimpanzees? Or why at least are there not some form of hominid in the transition period from evolving from chimpanzee to human, like somewhere in the middle?

Good thinking! Been there myself, furthermore why arent there different kinds of humans?

Another thing that always strikes me is the fact that transitions take place over a long time. For example a certain kind of animal needed to evolve because the surroundings changed and it had to perform that change in order to survive. IMHO thats nonsense cause the species would have died out before they had adapted to the new circumstances. Even though I admit that some adaption is clearly going, IMHO its Gods doing of course....

 

[hedrick]

I really hate it when Christians teach that you have to deny both biology and astronomy to be a Christian. It sets people up for the kind of experience you've been having. There is no reason why you have to choose between science and God. The classical Christian view is that there are "two books" from which we know God, the Bible and the book of nature. As the Psalmist says, the heavens are telling the glory of God, not challenging his existence.

You might take this opportunity to reconsider whether the Bible should be read in the kind of literal way you've been taught. As far as I can tell, the early sections of Genesis were not intended as history. Much of the OT refers to historical chronicles, and is surely intended to be history. But for the very early parts, the authors wouldn't have had records available. So what they gave us were the stories told by their people. Why? Because those stories were an important part of how the people understood themselves and their relationship to God. Simply omitting them would have left a big hole in our picture of how God works.

After all, the OT is quite a variety of things, everything from love poetry to history. Why insist that the early books have to be history?

The best place for this discussion is the Origins section. If you look there you'll find endless discussions of these issues. There are roughly four reactions to this challenge:

* Give up Christianity. This happens. I pray it won't happen to you. It seems to happen most to people who are so convinced by a "literal" understanding of the Bible that when they realize it's wrong, their world falls apart. They've spent their whole life fighting "liberals", and just can't conceive that maybe liberal Christians were right about some things. They're rather be an atheist.

* Come up with a compromise. There are a bunch of ways of reading Gen 1 - 3 that are consistent with science and also with a "literal" reading. I think this is an unwise compromise. It tortures Scripture so you can retain the idea that you're talking it "literally" when in fact you're not.

* Deny the scientific evidence. There are books and websites full of attempts to do this. If you don't understand, they look very convincing. But Christians are committed to following truth. I hope you don't go this route.

* Accept that God allowed people to write about him using their own understanding, and they simply didn't have historical accounts of creation and Israel's pre-history.

To me the last approach is the only one that makes sense. Many people are worried that if we take this approach we can't rely on the Bible. But I think that's silly. I believe the "literal" view is really a result of not trusting the Bible. People are afraid that if we admit it's a human creation, it will all fall apart. But it doesn't. It was written by honest people who were, except for the earliest parts, in a position to know what happened. For Jesus' life, which is what I care about most, it was written by first and second generation followers starting 30 - 40 years after the events. Current research on how sacred accounts are transmitted in traditional cultures show that there's good reason to think accounts like that are substantially accurate. I think the Bible works just fine if you allow yourself to evaluate it as you would any other book.

Actually, I think what they're afraid of is that if they admit it's not "literal" it becomes a matter of argument what is literal and what isn't. There's some truth to this. But even the so-called literal approach is a result of centuries of tradition. Nobody takes it all literally. But the traditions about what to accept and what not to are so ingrained that people can deny it's really just a tradition, and confuse traditional readings with the literal meaning of the text. I think the truth is that God didn't dictate a theological text book, and Jesus didn't preach a law book. God chose to reveal himself through by working with us in history. That leaves us in a position where we sometimes aren't sure just what the message was. But it's the way God chose to work. I believe literalism is a rejection of the approach God chose to use.

 

[vanillabean]

I think seeds of doubt are planted 100% on purpose, satan loves to whisper this crap in our ear! When it occasionally happens to me, not long after something in my life occurs that I am led to pray specifically for (someone is sick and needs healing, etc) and God freely answers the prayer, abundantly, and my faith is always restored, and then some! So start praying for someone you love, and watch God work

 

[JohnMarsten]

I really hate it when Christians teach that you have to deny both biology and astronomy to be a Christian. It sets people up for the kind of experience you've been having. There is no reason why you have to choose between science and God. The classical Christian view is that there are "two books" from which we know God, the Bible and the book of nature. As the Psalmist says, the heavens are telling the glory of God, not challenging his existence.

You might take this opportunity to reconsider whether the Bible should be read in the kind of literal way you've been taught. As far as I can tell, the early sections of Genesis were not intended as history. Much of the OT refers to historical chronicles, and is surely intended to be history. But for the very early parts, the authors wouldn't have had records available. So what they gave us were the stories told by their people. Why? Because those stories were an important part of how the people understood themselves and their relationship to God. Simply omitting them would have left a big hole in our picture of how God works.

After all, the OT is quite a variety of things, everything from love poetry to history. Why insist that the early books have to be history?

The best place for this discussion is the Origins section. If you look there you'll find endless discussions of these issues. There are roughly four reactions to this challenge:

* Give up Christianity. This happens. I pray it won't happen to you. It seems to happen most to people who are so convinced by a "literal" understanding of the Bible that when they realize it's wrong, their world falls apart. They've spent their whole life fighting "liberals", and just can't conceive that maybe liberal Christians were right about some things. They're rather be an atheist.

* Come up with a compromise. There are a bunch of ways of reading Gen 1 - 3 that are consistent with science and also with a "literal" reading. I think this is an unwise compromise. It tortures Scripture so you can retain the idea that you're talking it "literally" when in fact you're not.

* Deny the scientific evidence. There are books and websites full of attempts to do this. If you don't understand, they look very convincing. But Christians are committed to following truth. I hope you don't go this route.

* Accept that God allowed people to write about him using their own understanding, and they simply didn't have historical accounts of creation and Israel's pre-history.

To me the last approach is the only one that makes sense. Many people are worried that if we take this approach we can't rely on the Bible. But I think that's silly. I believe the "literal" view is really a result of not trusting the Bible. People are afraid that if we admit it's a human creation, it will all fall apart. But it doesn't. It was written by honest people who were, except for the earliest parts, in a position to know what happened. For Jesus' life, which is what I care about most, it was written by first and second generation followers starting 30 - 40 years after the events. Current research on how sacred accounts are transmitted in traditional cultures show that there's good reason to think accounts like that are substantially accurate. I think the Bible works just fine if you allow yourself to evaluate it as you would any other book.

Actually, I think what they're afraid of is that if they admit it's not "literal" it becomes a matter of argument what is literal and what isn't. There's some truth to this. But even the so-called literal approach is a result of centuries of tradition. Nobody takes it all literally. But the traditions about what to accept and what not to are so ingrained that people can deny it's really just a tradition, and confuse traditional readings with the literal meaning of the text. I think the truth is that God didn't dictate a theological text book, and Jesus didn't preach a law book. God chose to reveal himself through by working with us in history. That leaves us in a position where we sometimes aren't sure just what the message was. But it's the way God chose to work. I believe literalism is a rejection of the approach God chose to use.

Hey there, it seems to me as if you are trying to combine science and God and while I not necessarily have to insist on a literal 6 day creation (theoretically) I do insist on God being the creator, besides you say the people used the stories given to them, why didnt God correct the 'stories'? He gave the commandments to Moses (or do you disbelieve that as well?) couldnt he have clarified if there were any mistakes.

Like I said, I dont have to insist on literall 6 days, as a day can be a thousand years to God. But the account of Genesis is given by the same author who spoke to God directly

 

[Jase]

As far as evolution goes, here is something to think about. If we evolved from chimpanzees, why are there still chimpanzees? Or why at least are there not some form of hominid in the transition period from evolving from chimpanzee to human, like somewhere in the middle?

This is a very silly question. It's a common claim by people who don't understand evolution. It's no different than asking if Americans and Australians descended from Europeans, why are there still Europeans.

We didn't evolve from chimps, we share a distant common ancestor with them. And there are transitional forms between our ancestors and us.

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: Part 1


As for the OP, science should not make you question your faith, it should merely show you how God really created things. There is no conflict between God and science, but far too many Christians like to fabricate one.

 

[Jase]

Hey there, it seems to me as if you are trying to combine science and God and while I not necessarily have to insist on a literal 6 day creation (theoretically) I do insist on God being the creator, besides you say the people used the stories given to them, why didnt God correct the 'stories'? He gave the commandments to Moses (or do you disbelieve that as well?) couldnt he have clarified if there were any mistakes.

Like I said, I dont have to insist on literall 6 days, as a day can be a thousand years to God. But the account of Genesis is given by the same author who spoke to God directly

God didn't correct the stories because he wouldn't waste the time trying to explain such difficult concepts as Quantum mechanics, geophysics, radioactive dating, genetics, heliocentrism, etc.

Science is not the point of the Bible. God just used the knowledge of the world the authors already had to get his theological points across.

I'll also point out that most Jews reject a literal Genesis and have for hundreds of years, and it's a Jewish book.

 

[Cupis]

I somewhat love the 6 day literal creation, to me I sit in awe in the creation that was done in that span of time. I am not here however to argue the point, but rather say this to the thread starter

Science is not an enemy of God, since God has created so many things to follow a law or some sort to create a equilibrium and not send everything into chaos. If you read up on other science topics you will see that science can be a form of evidence for God.

I know not everyone would agree, but some sources that I found interesting

Erm I was trying to post a link or two here, but unfortunately I am too new, I would just say Dr Dino is cool, and creation science is interesting. You dont have to necessarily believe, but I do think it gives you an idea of what other scientists think of what you are stumbling on

 

[Jase]

I somewhat love the 6 day literal creation, to me I sit in awe in the creation that was done in that span of time. I am not here however to argue the point, but rather say this to the thread starter

Science is not an enemy of God, since God has created so many things to follow a law or some sort to create a equilibrium and not send everything into chaos. If you read up on other science topics you will see that science can be a form of evidence for God.

I know not everyone would agree, but some sources that I found interesting

Erm I was trying to post a link or two here, but unfortunately I am too new, I would just say Dr Dino is cool, and creation science is interesting. You dont have to necessarily believe, but I do think it gives you an idea of what other scientists think of what you are stumbling on

Not to go off topic, but "Dr." Dino, is Kent Hovind. He's a creationist fraud who got his so called "doctorate" from an online religious university notorious for being a diploma mill. His dissertation was incomplete and didn't even discuss actual science. He's now serving at least 10 years in prison for tax fraud.

Creationism is not science. It does not do peer reviewed scientific research or follow the scientific model. It assumes the conclusion without evidence, and then manipulates the evidence to support the already existing conclusion, regardless if it's true or not.

 

[soyunagile7980]

Not to go off topic, but ...

Too late.
I'm turning it back around for the OP. Please go to apologetics and open your own thread there, thanks.

Jesus himself told us to "count the cost" before accepting salvation. Although salvation has been called a free gift at times, it comes with many paradoxes.

You may be persecuted for your faith some day, rejected by friends family and even killed, who knows. Take the time to think about whether you really want to be a Christian. Shop around. God wants for all people to be saved but He will not impose Himself on you.

The just shall live by faith.

 

[gideon123]

UTVols

Stop beating yourself up.
Doubt is normal for human beings.
We are finite beings with only a limited ability to understand what is around us. A certain amount of soul searching, wondering, doubting is quite normal.

I would be far more worried about the believer who says that they never doubt, or never wonder about God, than the person who battles with struggles. The struggle is the angst. It is the nitty gritty of faith.

I suggest that you pray daily ... even on those days when you are wondering whether there is a God who is hearing your prayers.

I suggest that in moments of deep doubt that you take a second to marvel at human lives that have been transformed by faith. People who have been dragged out of the gutter - by a glimpse of God. Here is one example. You know the song ... "Amazing Grace". It was written by a man John Newton who was a British sailor. At a young age he became involved in the slave trade. Stop and think for just a moment about the horrendous things that he saw done, and perhaps some things that he did himself. Then contemplate the song.
That is a life transformed.

Gideon123