Impossible

[k4c]

Oh pleeeeease. You quote Jer 31:33, 34 which is just half of the sentence. What else have we been talking about in Jeeremiah? I usually quote the whole sentence which starts in verse 31. I never quote half of it or refer to half of it.

bugkiller

Are you trying make it sound like I'm guilty of something to discredit the truth I share?

Could you show me in this thread what you are referring to when you say I left out half the verse?

 

[bugkiller]

Are you trying make it sound like I'm guilty of something to discredit the truth I share?

Could you show me in this thread what you are referring to when you say I left out half the verse?

No I can't. I said you left out half of the sentence. Please go back and read my post. Here is what I am talking about: Jeremiah 31:31-34


31Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
See that red highlighted colon at the end of verse 32? The period is at the end of the sentence in verse 33.

I must also answer your first question and I am going to do that with a question. What truth?


bugkiller

 

[KM Richards]

I read a book saying that the ten commandments were given and meant to be broken.

Meant to be broken???

Yeah, maybe from satan's point of view...

If it were me, I'd throw that book in the trash since that guy doesn't have any spiritual sense at all. Don't care who he is...

That's like saying God is in favor of sin...

 

[bugkiller]

Meant to be broken???

Yeah, maybe from satan's point of view...

If it were me, I'd throw that book in the trash since that guy doesn't have any spiritual sense at all. Don't care who he is...

That's like saying God is in favor of sin...

I have challenged your paradigm and you simply dismiss it without a thought. So I suppose that you can name at least one successful person who has kept the commandments without violation except Jesus. I want proof that someone has done it. Romans 11:32 says that all (no exceptions) have been committed to disobedience so that He (God) might have mercy on all. The whole world is guilty - no exceptions.

bugkiller

 

[RND]

I read a book saying that the ten commandments were given and meant to be broken. I agree with that statement.

Why would God make laws that He expected to be broken?

 

[RND]

I have challenged your paradigm and you simply dismiss it without a thought. So I suppose that you can name at least one successful person who has kept the commandments without violation except Jesus. I want proof that someone has done it. Romans 11:32 says that all (no exceptions) have been committed to disobedience so that He (God) might have mercy on all. The whole world is guilty - no exceptions.

bugkiller

All are guilty, except Christ.

Taken to its logical extreme it would be akin to saying that since we all drive, and all have broken at least one motor vehicle law, then all motor vehicle laws are now abolished!

The difference is that I know the effects of unsafe driving because when I broke the law and got caught, I went to see the Judge and he paid my fine for me! He didn't tell me I was free to drive however I wanted with no regard for the signs or other people.

 

[bugkiller]

Why would God make laws that He expected to be broken?

I think that is pretty simple to answer. Ever read Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

All are guilty, except Christ.

Taken to its logical extreme it would be akin to saying that since we all drive, and all have broken at least one motor vehicle law, then all motor vehicle laws are now abolished!

Nice to see you have a sense of humor. I thought I was in a league of my own in the humor department.

The difference is that I know the effects of unsafe driving because when I broke the law and got caught, I went to see the Judge and he paid my fine for me! He didn't tell me I was free to drive however I wanted with no regard for the signs or other people.

The judge must be a rich relative.

bugkiller

 

[k4c]

Nice to see you have a sense of humor. I thought I was in a league of my own in the humor department.The judge must be a rich relative.

bugkiller

Do you reject things just for the sake of rejecting them?

 

[bugkiller]

Do you reject things just for the sake of rejecting them?

No, I love the truth. Are you asking if I just like to argue? No, I love the truth.

bugkiller

 

[k4c]

No, I love the truth. Are you asking if I just like to argue? No, I love the truth.

bugkiller

Well the truth is, God's Law is holy, right and good. It reveals God's eternal character, which is love. When you break God's Law you violate love.

The truth is, we all violate love but God wants to change that and He will if we allow Him. God's main concern is our relationships with Him and with each other. He tells us that where sin abounds, grace much more abounds. What He wants us to understand in this is that though we continue to fall we should not let these times of weakness hinder our relationships. Confess our sin because He faithful and just to cleans, continue to draw close to God and He will draw close to you. Why? Because God is working on our relationships.

The life and words of Jesus manifested God's Law in the flesh. His life and words taught us to focus on our relationships with God and man in light of the Ten Commandments. He taught many times regarding keeping the Sabbath holy in light of relationships. In other words, His teaching, regarding the Sabbath, removed the ritualistic keeping of the Sabbath where the Sabbath becomes more important than needs pertaining to life and service to God.

Until you understand how God's Law applies to the heart in the new covenant you will always struggle to know God's eternal will for His people.

Don't do away with God's Law, let Him write it on your heart. Learn how God directs us through His Spirit in light of the Law and our relationships. In this, righteousness and holiness won't have to be open to intepretation because we can see what that looks like in the religious world today.

Romans 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

 

[bugkiller]

Well the truth is, God's Law is holy, right and good. It reveals God's eternal character, which is love. When you break God's Law you violate love.

First off I do not break God's holy law by not keeping the sabbath. You ask a very emotional and inflamed how? Passion is good. I do not offend something that has no jurisdiction over me. Jer 31:31-34 says God will make a new covenant with Israel not like the one in existence. Jesus, Who is God, Himself says that the new covenant is in existence in Mat 26:28. Nothing in the OC was ever given to the gentiles. A gentile could become part of the covenant that the COI had with God only by circumcision. This is the same way an Israelite came into the covenant Ex 12:48.

In Hosea 2:11 God says the sabbath will end. This is not Paul saying the weekly sabbath will end. So will explain away and dismiss Hosea as well? Hosea 2:11 is a list of things that will cease. It does not include sacrifice. Sacrifice is done away with.

The truth is, we all violate love but God wants to change that and He will if we allow Him. God's main concern is our relationships with Him and with each other. He tells us that where sin abounds, grace much more abounds. What He wants us to understand in this is that though we continue to fall we should not let these times of weakness hinder our relationships. Confess our sin because He faithful and just to cleans, continue to draw close to God and He will draw close to you. Why? Because God is working on our relationships.

The life and words of Jesus manifested God's Law in the flesh. His life and words taught us to focus on our relationships with God and man in light of the Ten Commandments. He taught many times regarding keeping the Sabbath holy in light of relationships. In other words, His teaching, regarding the Sabbath, removed the ritualistic keeping of the Sabbath where the Sabbath becomes more important than needs pertaining to life and service to God.

Until you understand how God's Law applies to the heart in the new covenant you will always struggle to know God's eternal will for His people.

I do not struggle with God's eternal will for his people. Jesus gave new commandments and none of which included a commandment to keep the sabbath.

Don't do away with God's Law, let Him write it on your heart. Learn how God directs us through His Spirit in light of the Law and our relationships. In this, righteousness and holiness won't have to be open to intepretation because we can see what that looks like in the religious world today.

Romans 6:19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

I haven't done away with any of God's laws. God did and Jesus (God the Son) proved and testified to that. Your idea and accusation that I am lawless - an unrepentant sinner has no effect on me because There is therefore no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Roman 8:1-2

bugkiller

 

[k4c]

bugkiller; First off I do not break God's holy law by not keeping the sabbath.

We can stop right here because you have already misunderstood God's word.

You ask a very emotional and inflamed how? Passion is good. I do not offend something that has no jurisdiction over me. Jer 31:31-34 says God will make a new covenant with Israel not like the one in existence. Jesus, Who is God, Himself says that the new covenant is in existence in Mat 26:28. Nothing in the OC was ever given to the gentiles. A gentile could become part of the covenant that the COI had with God only by circumcision. This is the same way an Israelite came into the covenant Ex 12:48.

I may have diplomatic immunity in another country but that does not me I can break their laws without consequence.

A new covenant based on love for God and love for neighbor. All the Law and the prophets hang from these two. You can't have one without having the other.

Matthew 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?'' Jesus said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the first and great commandment. "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.''

In Hosea 2:11 God says the sabbath will end. This is not Paul saying the weekly sabbath will end. So will explain away and dismiss Hosea as well? Hosea 2:11 is a list of things that will cease. It does not include sacrifice. Sacrifice is done away with. I do not struggle with God's eternal will for his people. Jesus gave new commandments and none of which included a commandment to keep the sabbath.

Let's take a look at Hosea 2:11.

Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her New Moons, her Sabbaths all her appointed feasts.

There is a difference between God's Sabbath, as seen in the seventh day of creation, and her sabbaths having to do with the shadows that were instituted as a result of sin.

Living Bible--
Leviticus 23:3 (These are in addition to your Sabbaths --the seventh day of every week--which are always days of rest in every home, times for assembling to worship, and for resting from the normal business of the week.)

God's Sabbath is never called, her sabbath.

I haven't done away with any of God's laws. God did and Jesus (God the Son) proved and testified to that. Your idea and accusation that I am lawless - an unrepentant sinner has no effect on me because There is therefore no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Roman 8:1-2

bugkiller

Are you a disciple of VictorC because you like to put words in my mouth just like he does?

I don't believe you are lawless. I believe you keep at least some of the Ten Commandments, you just need to study a little more.

You are right, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Let me repeat that last statement, 'for those who are in Christ'.

When you walk according to the Spirit you are in Christ but you have to understand that when you walk according to the Spirit you will keep the Ten Commandments and beyond because the Spirit convicts of sin (transgression of God's Law). The carnal mind or the mind not guided by the Spirit is an enimy of God and will not keep God's Law nor can it. This is not so with those who have the Spirit of God and are walking according to the Spirit.

Romans 8:5-10 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

 

[bugkiller]

We can stop right here because you have already misunderstood God's word.

So would you kindly explain how this is happening on my part? I would like to know.

I may have diplomatic immunity in another country but that does not me I can break their laws without consequence.

Only when in their jurisdiction.

A new covenant based on love for God and love for neighbor. All the Law and the prophets hang from these two. You can't have one without having the other.

Matthew 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?'' Jesus said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the first and great commandment. "And the second is like it: `You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.''

And so they do. It seems that you make this an obligation to the full law. I disagree.

Let's take a look at Hosea 2:11.

Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her New Moons, her Sabbaths all her appointed feasts.

There is a difference between God's Sabbath, as seen in the seventh day of creation, and her sabbaths having to do with the shadows that were instituted as a result of sin.

Living Bible--
Leviticus 23:3 (These are in addition to your Sabbaths --the seventh day of every week--which are always days of rest in every home, times for assembling to worship, and for resting from the normal business of the week.)

God's Sabbath is never called, her sabbath.

What are her sabbaths? You have said this before and I responded with the sabbaths Israel kept are the ones God gave her. You have never identified these her sabbaths that you talk about. I think you are using semantics to deny the truth. What are her feast days? Are they not the three annual high holy feasts? Or are they referring to something else? Can you identify them as something else? I am open to such identifying. I don't see it so show this Missouri mule. Yep I am asking to be led around in a harness. Remember I am a Missouri mule.

Are you a disciple of VictorC because you like to put words in my mouth just like he does?

Well I am sure VictorC is honored by being accused of having private disciples. My answer to your question is a resounding NO! I do have to admit I like and have a healthy respect for VictorC. I do like to read his responses. We do glean from each other.

I don't believe you are lawless. I believe you keep at least some of the Ten Commandments, you just need to study a little more.

WOW! That is a change in stance. Partly lawless - I think that is still lawless though. Partly cloudy does not mean there are no clouds.

You are right, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ. Let me repeat that last statement, 'for those who are in Christ'.

Now you would not be suggesting that I am not in Christ would you? This will not allow you to condemn me. Who is the accuser of the bretheren? Are you trying to take his job? He does need a rest.

When you walk according to the Spirit you are in Christ but you have to understand that when you walk according to the Spirit you will keep the Ten Commandments and beyond because the Spirit convicts of sin (transgression of God's Law). The carnal mind or the mind not guided by the Spirit is an enimy of God and will not keep God's Law nor can it. This is not so with those who have the Spirit of God and are walking according to the Spirit.

Romans 8:5-10 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Where does it say that if you are in or following the Spirit you will keep the ten commandments? I think you are saying I would participate in the OC. I don't like straddling the fence. I am not that tall and barbed wire will do a number on the crotch. I think to participate in the OC would itself be a violation of the ten commandments as indicated in Romans 7. This is of course in light of the fact that the NC has been in existance for aproximately 2000 years by the testimony of Jesus (God the Son) Himself. Mat 26:28

bugkiller

 

[k4c]

So would you kindly explain how this is happening on my part? I would like to know. Only when in their jurisdiction. And so they do. It seems that you make this an obligation to the full law. I disagree. What are her sabbaths? You have said this before and I responded with the sabbaths Israel kept are the ones God gave her. You have never identified these her sabbaths that you talk about. I think you are using semantics to deny the truth. What are her feast days? Are they not the three annual high holy feasts? Or are they referring to something else? Can you identify them as something else? I am open to such identifying. I don't see it so show this Missouri mule. Yep I am asking to be led around in a harness. Remember I am a Missouri mule. Well I am sure VictorC is honored by being accused of having private disciples. My answer to your question is a resounding NO! I do have to admit I like and have a healthy respect for VictorC. I do like to read his responses. We do glean from each other.WOW! That is a change in stance. Partly lawless - I think that is still lawless though. Partly cloudy does not mean there are no clouds. Now you would not be suggesting that I am not in Christ would you? This will not allow you to condemn me. Who is the accuser of the bretheren? Are you trying to take his job? He does need a rest.Where does it say that if you are in or following the Spirit you will keep the ten commandments? I think you are saying I would participate in the OC. I don't like straddling the fence. I am not that tall and barbed wire will do a number on the crotch. I think to participate in the OC would itself be a violation of the ten commandments as indicated in Romans 7. This is of course in light of the fact that the NC has been in existance for aproximately 2000 years by the testimony of Jesus (God the Son) Himself. Mat 26:28

bugkiller

Her sabbaths came as result of sin, God's Sabbath did not.

 

[bugkiller]

Her sabbaths came as result of sin, God's Sabbath did not.

So are her sabbaths the weekly sabbath?

bugkiller

 

[VictorC]

Are you a disciple of VictorC because you like to put words in my mouth just like he does?

I don't have any disciples. I know lots of students of the same Bible I have possession of, and the these students reach the same conclusion I do - and recognize Adventism as a departure from Scripture.

The words in your mouth are the words I quote from you. If you don't like them, you should probably pay attention to what you're writing on a public forum.

 

[k4c]

I don't have any disciples. I know lots of students of the same Bible I have possession of, and the these students reach the same conclusion I do - and recognize Adventism as a departure from Scripture.

The words in your mouth are the words I quote from you. If you don't like them, you should probably pay attention to what you're writing on a public forum.

I have to say this again...you are a master at twisting and puttng words in people's mouth and telling people what they believe. I don't even think you realize what you're doing because if you do then your blindness goes deeper than I thought. It's kind of comical though to watch you do it over and over again.

 

[VictorC]

I have to say this again...you are a master at twisting and puttng words in people's mouth and telling people what they believe.

Like this?

This is exactly what I mean. I never said we CAN disobey the Ten Commandments, as though it's okay, even though we do break them.

That's what you wrote elsewhere, verbatim, no editing necessary.
You break the law even though you claim it isn't okay, meaning you have no redemption of your transgressions under the first covenant as described in Hebrews 9:15.
You claim that you're hopelessly lost without a solution to be found, and the only reason you don't understand the things you write is because of the blindness Paul describes in 2 Corinthians 3:14.

 

[k4c]

Like this?

That's what you wrote elsewhere, verbatim, no editing necessary.
You break the law even though you claim it isn't okay, meaning you have no redemption of your transgressions under the first covenant as described in Hebrews 9:15.
You claim that you're hopelessly lost without a solution to be found, and the only reason you don't understand the things you write is because of the blindness Paul describes in 2 Corinthians 3:14.

I wouldn't say hoplessly lost that's a conclusion you come to by using only have truths.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Now if you read the context of 2 Corinthians 3:14 you will see that it is saying exactly what I have been saying all along that we are not justified by keeping the Law. The veil is that which is blinding them to the truth of the gospel and the gospel is that in Christ there is no condemnation because He died for our sins. This is God's grace in action. But does this mean we can now sin because of God's grace? Certainly not!

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!

Since we are under grace does that me the Law is done away with? Certainly not!

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

Now I ask you who say God's Law is done away with, do you have the veil that blinds?