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Important Facts about Evolution

toolmanjantzi

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RickG said:
It would depend upon the two atoms, their ionic radi, size, electronic configuration, and close packing. This varies between noble gases, transition metals, alkali metals, rare-earths, etc.. For example, with ionic radi in angstroms we have the cation O[sup]2-[/sup]: III = 1.25; IV = 1.30; VI = 1.32; VIII = 1.34. Space is space, void of matter, no density. What is your definition of space?

I don't believe space is as simple as "void of matter". Space is required wether you define it as air or a gas. When a house is built, space is defined as room. When a pool is made its space is defined by area. When a radio frequency is made its space is defined by wavelength. Space if it was natural cause of "void of matter"; how did the human heart define the space required to pump blood inside its chambers. How did the body define it's space within any organ including the womb of a women that allows for different size babies to occupy (depending on gene pool).
 
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toolmanjantzi

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RickG said:
Evolution has nothing to do with the big bang or how life begin. However, if you want evidence for evolution, explain the fossil record. How did all those fossils get there over 3.5 Ga without evolution?

From a biblical point or scientific?
 
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Loudmouth

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I don't believe space is as simple as "void of matter".

When will you understand that belief has nothing to do with it?

Space is required wether you define it as air or a gas. When a house is built, space is defined as room. When a pool is made its space is defined by area. When a radio frequency is made its space is defined by wavelength. Space if it was natural cause of "void of matter"; how did the human heart define the space required to pump blood inside its chambers. How did the body define it's space within any organ including the womb of a women that allows for different size babies to occupy (depending on gene pool).

All you are doing is changing between different usages of the word "space". That is not an honest way of approaching the subject. What next? Space is made of bars because a typewriter has a space bar? On the other hand, bars serve beer so that that would make space into beer, but bars are also iron, so that would make beer into a utensil used for getting wrinkles out of clothes because space is made of bars. That is the type of argument that you are making.
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Loudmouth said:
What about the whales that creationists lied about? This is what I am talking about. You are just jumping from one lie to another. Can you admit that creationists lied about whales being buried vertically in sediments? Why would you go back to the same lying creationists and quote yet another one of their lies?


" In modern oceans, whale carcasses on the ocean floor are rapidly colonized by large numbers of invertebrate scavengers that remove the flesh and begin to degrade the bone. ... They also bioturbate the adjoining sediment in search of organic compounds leached from the whale. This process strips a whale skeleton within a maximum of a few years. Sediment accumulating at a few centimeters per thousand years would deposit at maximum a few millimeters of diatomite during the time available to preserve even a reasonably complete whale skeleton. Preservation of nonmineralized tissue would not be a realistic possibility at this slow burial rate, and even bones are unlikely to be well preserved. - See more at: http://crev.info/2004/02/hundreds_of_whales_buried_suddenly_in_diatoms/#sthash.KNAz18c8.dpuf"


Did the 40-50 degree declined whale show any of the above?
 
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Loudmouth

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" In modern oceans, whale carcasses on the ocean floor are rapidly colonized by large numbers of invertebrate scavengers that remove the flesh and begin to degrade the bone. ... They also bioturbate the adjoining sediment in search of organic compounds leached from the whale. This process strips a whale skeleton within a maximum of a few years. Sediment accumulating at a few centimeters per thousand years would deposit at maximum a few millimeters of diatomite during the time available to preserve even a reasonably complete whale skeleton. Preservation of nonmineralized tissue would not be a realistic possibility at this slow burial rate, and even bones are unlikely to be well preserved. - See more at: http://crev.info/2004/02/hundreds_of_whales_buried_suddenly_in_diatoms/#sthash.KNAz18c8.dpuf"


Did the 40-50 degree declined whale show any of the above?

Answer the question.

Did creationists lie when they said that the whale was buried in a vertical fashion?
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Loudmouth said:
You appear to be making this up.


den·si·ty
'densit?/
noun
the degree of compactness of a substance.


How much space is between two compact items?
 
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Loudmouth

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den·si·ty
'densit?/
noun
the degree of compactness of a substance.


How much space is between two compact items?

Why is density the best way to describe space? You claimed that it was the best way to describe space, but from what I have seen you seemed to have made that up.

Added by edit: I would suspect that most scientists consider the photon to be the best measuring tool for distance.

"The base unit in the International System of Units (SI) is the metre, defined as "the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second."[4] It is approximately equal to 1.0936 yards."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_of_length

Given the fact that photons do not have mass, it would seem that density is not the best way to define distance.
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Loudmouth said:
Theories aren't proven. Theory is as high as it gets in science. For example, the Law of Gravity is a part of the larger Theory of Gravity.



They just change as new information becomes available, like the "Higgs Boson".
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Loudmouth said:
I have always found this interesting. Creationists actually think that the weakness of science is that it changes its conclusions when new evidence demands it. Before DNA evidence became available, we only had fossil data for neanderthals. Neanderthals spanned the era between H. erectus and H. sapiens. They were also transitional. Obviously, this makes them a strong contender for being our direct ancestors. However, no amount of fossil data can be used to determine direct relationships between fossil species. You need DNA for that. Luckily, there are neanderthal remains that have DNA in them, DNA that we can sequence. The first bit of neanderthal DNA to be sequenced was from the mitochondria since there are thousands of copies of the mitochondrial DNA in every cell compared to a single copy of the autosomal DNA. As it turned out, the mitochondrial DNA lineage found in neanderthals is not found in modern human populations. This is evidence against neanderthals being direct ancestors of modern humans. However, this data could not rule out some cross-breeding. Later, scientists were able to sequence the majority of the neanderthal genome and compare it to the human genome. The results were pretty definitive at this point. There actually was some interbreeding between humans and neanderthals, but it was very limited. In certain populations, about 5% of the human genome comes from neanderthals. Our knowledge of our relationship with neanderthals has increased over time, and as a consequence certain possibilities have been taken off the table. Creationists like toolmanjantzi think this is a bad thing because it lacks "consistency". I think this tells us a lot about the creationist mindset. New knowledge is bad. Changing your mind because of new evidence is bad. It is rather strange to think that toolmanjantzi would more likely accept evolution if we kept falsified theories and refused to change them.

Can you define "Consistency"? I am as accepting of changing error as you are of Creationist changing error.
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Dizredux said:
LoudmouthI am pretty patient with YECers beliefs. I know that many people need certainty in their lives and cannot tolerate ambiguity very well. For them the certainty of the inerrance of Genesis is vital and the characteristic of changing that science so often does is upsetting to their need for things to be stable and certain. For them science changing is bad in that it can be threatening. What is interesting is that there is some evidence that this may, at least to a degree, be genetic in nature. Of interest in this article was that one of the things studied was the need for "order, structure, closure, certainty, dogmatism, and discipline" which may be determined, at least in part, by genetics. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/09/opinion/thomas-edsall-how-much-do-our-genes-influence-our-political-beliefs.html?ref=opinion&_r=0 Interesting and could help explain some of the behaviors we see here. Dizredux

I will take "child like faith" for $500 Jack.
 
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Loudmouth

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Can you define "Consistency"?

As you are defining it, consistency means staying with your first claim no matter what new evidence comes to light. You were complaining that conclusions have changed with respect to neanderthals, saying that there was a lack of consistency.

I am as accepting of changing error as you are of Creationist changing error.

The first step is in admitting error.

Were creationists lying about whales being buried in a vertical fashion?
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Loudmouth said:
What gives me a chuckle is that these same creationists will turn around and say that scientists refuse to consider any other explanations, all the while complaining about scientists considering other explanations. Sometimes, it appears to be a need to throw mud.

How about we put that into practice and see if that's true.

Neanderthal or any other species that carry some of the human gene is comparable to the scriptural account of the "sons of God" having sexual relations with the "daughters of men". Two total different "SPECIES" and their offspring were considered the Nephilim and "men of renown". Egyptian and Aztec art depicts these giants or men of renown.

But you wouldn't dare taking that into consideration would you? I never said you had to believe it. I said consider the historical possibility that the scripture defines what science has found.

Fossils and age of the earth (planet) can be billions of years old for all I care, because Genesis explains that the Earth was already present at the time of Creation of what is present. Also the water was present.
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Loudmouth said:
When will you understand that belief has nothing to do with it? All you are doing is changing between different usages of the word "space". That is not an honest way of approaching the subject. What next? Space is made of bars because a typewriter has a space bar? On the other hand, bars serve beer so that that would make space into beer, but bars are also iron, so that would make beer into a utensil used for getting wrinkles out of clothes because space is made of bars. That is the type of argument that you are making.


The distance between both ears.
 
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Loudmouth

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How about we put that into practice and see if that's true.

Neanderthal or any other species that carry some of the human gene is comparable to the scriptural account of the "sons of God" having sexual relations with the "daughters of men". Two total different "SPECIES" and their offspring were considered the Nephilim and "men of renown". Egyptian and Aztec art depicts these giants or men of renown.

But you wouldn't dare taking that into consideration would you? I never said you had to believe it. I said consider the historical possibility that the scripture defines what science has found.

I would be more than happy to consider any evidence that you have to back these claims. Where is that evidence?
 
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Loudmouth

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The distance between both ears.

“If you ask, What is a non sequitur? And I say, “Blue love on a blue moon on Mr. Green’s greenback printing machine (the one that sounds like Weimar Germany in 1923)”, then I have given you an example of a non sequitur. But since you asked what a non sequitur was, the fact that I gave you a non sequitur as an answer means it most definitely is not a non sequitur, since it does follow logically. Because it is means that it isn’t. But because I gave you what you wanted, when you wanted what you didn’t want, then I didn’t give you what you wanted, thus giving you what you wanted. So it is a non sequitur, which means it isn’t. But since it isn’t, when you expected it to be one, signals that it is. So it is and it isn’t, all at the same time!”
― Jarod Kintz, A Story That Talks about Talking Is Like Chatter to Chattering Teeth, and Every Set of Dentures Can Attest to the Fact That No..
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Loudmouth said:
Answer the question. Did creationists lie when they said that the whale was buried in a vertical fashion?

Not knowingly or willingly to cause deception. I apologize for myself and all humanity that you feel cheated of the truth when it comes to a dead whale skeleton totally intact at a incline of 40.5 degrees and a perfectly formed Strata that proves to you that the sediment of the ocean floor was able to occupy the SPACE of the intact skeleton of a deceased whale.
 
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Loudmouth

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Not knowingly or willingly to cause deception.

How could they not know? This claim has been known to be false for decades now, and yet it keeps popping up on creationist sites. How could they not know?

I apologize for myself and all humanity that you feel cheated of the truth when it comes to a dead whale skeleton totally intact at a incline of 40.5 degrees and a perfectly formed Strata that proves to you that the sediment of the ocean floor was able to occupy the SPACE of the intact skeleton of a deceased whale.

You can't even apologize for the actual lie. Why is that?

Did you forget to mention that the entire geologic formation is inclined due to uplift? Did you forget that the sediments and the whale were perfectly level when they formed, and were only moved after they lithified?
 
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toolmanjantzi

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Loudmouth said:
Why is density the best way to describe space? You claimed that it was the best way to describe space, but from what I have seen you seemed to have made that up. Added by edit: I would suspect that most scientists consider the photon to be the best measuring tool for distance. "The base unit in the International System of Units (SI) is the metre, defined as "the length of the path travelled by light in vacuum during a time interval of 1/299,792,458 of a second."[4] It is approximately equal to 1.0936 yards." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_of_length Given the fact that photons do not have mass, it would seem that density is not the best way to define distance.

How big is a photon?
 
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