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Important Facts about Evolution

PsychoSarah

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1. Evolution never excludes the existence of gods. In fact, the theory just never mentions them. Regardless as to how you feel it is in regards to how you interpret religious texts, evolution doesn't require gods to not exist, nor does it make any claims about them. Evolution and religion are as compatible with religion as one is willing to let them be.

2. Universal common decent is an entirely different theory than evolution. True, they are closely related, but if universal common decent was falsified, evolution wouldn't be as evolution doesn't require universal common decent to be true in order for evolution to be valid. Same goes with abiogenesis.

3. You can believe a deity guides evolution all you like. But unless you provide evidence that deities themselves exist, you shouldn't expect to make atheists like myself believe that to be the case, as one can easily argue evolution itself would have no apparent differences guided or not. It just leads to a dead end argument laden with opinions that goes nowhere.

4. You cannot legitimately consider "microevolution" to occur and not "macroevolution", both processes work by the exact same means, the only difference being that macroevolution measures it over longer periods of time. There isn't a single mechanism that prevents more and more mutations from building up in populations across generations until the newest generation no longer resembles the oldest. To claim microevolution occurs but macroevolution doesn't is like claiming people can age until they are a day older, and yet they can't age twenty years, despite that you are agreeing that they age every day a little within those twenty years.

5. Expecting to be able to observe evolution on the scale of humans splitting from chimpanzee evolution all the way to modern humans directly within a human lifespan is as unrealistic as expecting to flap your arms and fly. It takes millions of years, with some variation in time depending on the environment and other factors which impact evolution. Humans just don't live long enough to see big changes like that in most cases. The only things which reproduce fast enough for us to see changes like that are organisms such as bacteria, and for reasons I don't personally get, creationists just wave them off.

6. Evolution isn't a religion, people need to just get over it. Just because you feel it doesn't fit your religion and people are willing to defend evolution against religious arguments doesn't make it a religion. It doesn't guide our lives, it isn't a philosophy, it is about as much of a religion as gravity. I challenge someone to defend the idea that supporting the theory of gravity is a religion.

7. Evolutionary theory has changed over the years, mostly new knowledge has been added. This in no way hurts its validity. Correcting past mistakes in fact helps to make it more valid. Will it change more in the future? Probably a bit, sure, but assuming that these changes will make the theory as we currently use it pointless is invalid.

You can argue with these points all you like, claim they are wrong all you like, but these are the facts, and denying them is essentially choosing to remain ignorant about the theory.
 

sfs

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2. Universal common decent is an entirely different theory than evolution. True, they are closely related, but if universal common decent was falsified, evolution wouldn't be as evolution doesn't require universal common decent to be true in order for evolution to be valid. Same goes with abiogenesis.
As the word "evolution" is used by most people, including most evolutionary biologists, it includes common descent.

4. You cannot legitimately consider "microevolution" to occur and not "macroevolution", both processes work by the exact same means, the only difference being that macroevolution measures it over longer periods of time. There isn't a single mechanism that prevents more and more mutations from building up in populations across generations until the newest generation no longer resembles the oldest. To claim microevolution occurs but macroevolution doesn't is like claiming people can age until they are a day older, and yet they can't age twenty years, despite that you are agreeing that they age every day a little within those twenty years.
Microevolution could occur without macroevolution being possible. If species were isolated peaks in fitness space, with deep valleys all around, no macroevolution would be possible. It's an empirical fact that that's not the case, but it's not a matter of principle.
 
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PsychoSarah

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As the word "evolution" is used by most people, including most evolutionary biologists, it includes common descent.


Microevolution could occur without macroevolution being possible. If species were isolated peaks in fitness space, with deep valleys all around, no macroevolution would be possible. It's an empirical fact that that's not the case, but it's not a matter of principle.

First part, people using evolution to refer to both doesn't make them any less two separate theories.

Second part, proving it is possible but only in impossible circumstances is basically just proving it isn't possible.
 
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Delphiki

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As the word "evolution" is used by most people, including most evolutionary biologists, it includes common descent.


Microevolution could occur without macroevolution being possible. If species were isolated peaks in fitness space, with deep valleys all around, no macroevolution would be possible. It's an empirical fact that that's not the case, but it's not a matter of principle.


Except there's nowhere that would ever happen as long as everywhere there is life, there is more than one species. If a living population is isolated, it won't have any environmental pressures acting upon it. I suppose it could become cannibalistic to support itself, but how likely is it that they would reproduce faster then they could eat themselves to extinction.
 
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AV1611VET

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Evolution never excludes the existence of gods.
But God excludes the existence of evolution; and that's what counts.
In fact, the theory just never mentions them.
Because God didn't use it.
Regardless as to how you feel it is in regards to how you interpret religious texts,
That's right -- and I interpret the Bible literally.
... evolution doesn't require gods to not exist, nor does it make any claims about them.
Then evolution can take a hike.
Evolution and religion are as compatible with religion as one is willing to let them be.
Some companions ... neither mention the other.
 
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AV1611VET

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No! What counts is the physical evidence God left, not the fallible musings of man.
Physical evidence has been in a state of decay for 6000 years.

Going by PE alone is like looking at a warped snowman (due to melting) and saying, "Look how beautiful this creation is!"

There was a time in Adam's life when roses didn't bear prickles.
 
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Split Rock

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1. Evolution never excludes the existence of gods. In fact, the theory just never mentions them. Regardless as to how you feel it is in regards to how you interpret religious texts, evolution doesn't require gods to not exist, nor does it make any claims about them. Evolution and religion are as compatible with religion as one is willing to let them be.

2. Universal common decent is an entirely different theory than evolution. True, they are closely related, but if universal common decent was falsified, evolution wouldn't be as evolution doesn't require universal common decent to be true in order for evolution to be valid. Same goes with abiogenesis.

3. You can believe a deity guides evolution all you like. But unless you provide evidence that deities themselves exist, you shouldn't expect to make atheists like myself believe that to be the case, as one can easily argue evolution itself would have no apparent differences guided or not. It just leads to a dead end argument laden with opinions that goes nowhere.

4. You cannot legitimately consider "microevolution" to occur and not "macroevolution", both processes work by the exact same means, the only difference being that macroevolution measures it over longer periods of time. There isn't a single mechanism that prevents more and more mutations from building up in populations across generations until the newest generation no longer resembles the oldest. To claim microevolution occurs but macroevolution doesn't is like claiming people can age until they are a day older, and yet they can't age twenty years, despite that you are agreeing that they age every day a little within those twenty years.

5. Expecting to be able to observe evolution on the scale of humans splitting from chimpanzee evolution all the way to modern humans directly within a human lifespan is as unrealistic as expecting to flap your arms and fly. It takes millions of years, with some variation in time depending on the environment and other factors which impact evolution. Humans just don't live long enough to see big changes like that in most cases. The only things which reproduce fast enough for us to see changes like that are organisms such as bacteria, and for reasons I don't personally get, creationists just wave them off.

6. Evolution isn't a religion, people need to just get over it. Just because you feel it doesn't fit your religion and people are willing to defend evolution against religious arguments doesn't make it a religion. It doesn't guide our lives, it isn't a philosophy, it is about as much of a religion as gravity. I challenge someone to defend the idea that supporting the theory of gravity is a religion.

7. Evolutionary theory has changed over the years, mostly new knowledge has been added. This in no way hurts its validity. Correcting past mistakes in fact helps to make it more valid. Will it change more in the future? Probably a bit, sure, but assuming that these changes will make the theory as we currently use it pointless is invalid.

You can argue with these points all you like, claim they are wrong all you like, but these are the facts, and denying them is essentially choosing to remain ignorant about the theory.

I'd like to add to this list, if that's OK.

8. Populations evolve, not individuals. Beneficial alleles (new or otherwise) will tend to increase in a population until they become the dominant allele. Thus, if a mutation provides a benefit in fitness, it will spread over time to the majority of the population without requiring the mutation to occur repeatedly. Thus, it is erroneous to assert that the females have to have the same mutation as males or that an individual can only mate with another individual with the same mutation. Nor does it make sense to refer to an individual as "evolving."
 
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Split Rock

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But God excludes the existence of evolution; and that's what counts.
That's what you claim.

Because God didn't use it.
Again, that's what you claim.

That's right -- and I interpret the Bible literally.
Except when you don't, or add to it.

Then evolution can take a hike.
Yes, along with reality and common sense.

Some companions ... neither mention the other.
That's why its not required to reject one if one accepts the other.
 
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PsychoSarah

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I'd like to add to this list, if that's OK.

8. Populations evolve, not individuals. Beneficial alleles (new or otherwise) will tend to increase in a population until they become the dominant allele. Thus, if a mutation provides a benefit in fitness, it will spread over time to the majority of the population without requiring the mutation to occur repeatedly. Thus, it is erroneous to assert that the females have to have the same mutation as males or that an individual can only mate with another individual with the same mutation. Nor does it make sense to refer to an individual as "evolving."

An acceptable addition
 
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dad

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1. Evolution never excludes the existence of gods. ...
It excludes the Creator God. Obviously. Take a good look at what evolution claims and see if Adam is where man started, In fact, that is what it is all about and always has been.
 
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AV1611VET

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It excludes the Creator God. Obviously. Take a good look at what evolution claims and see if Adam is where man started, In fact, that is what it is all about and always has been.
They've got that covered too, bro.

Only they call him y-Adam.

Eve, of course, is mtDNA Eve.

They lived about 100,000 years apart.

And no, I'm not kidding.

This is what they claim.
 
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dad

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They've got that covered too, bro.

Only they call him y-Adam.

Eve, of course, is mtDNA Eve.
They have religion then. A religion that conflicts with Jesus and the apostles directly.
They lived about 100,000 years apart.
They can grab any number they like I guess, since it is a fairy tale.
And no, I'm not kidding.

This is what they claim.
Jack in the Beanstalk would be proud:)
 
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AV1611VET

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They have religion then. A religion that conflicts with Jesus and the apostles directly.
Ya ... but ... put yourself in the place of the apostles.

Would you have decided to follow Jesus if you would have had access to peer-reviewed 21st century science first? :cool:
 
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dad

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Ya ... but ... put yourself in the place of the apostles.

Would you have decided to follow Jesus if you would have had access to peer-reviewed 21st century science first? :cool:
Yes, I think that fragrant crap would have expedited my decision to flee the madness of Satan. Of course it someone told you back then worm sex was what was responsible for all of mankind, they may have stoned you for being mad or possessed! :)
 
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