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Impact Scenario

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Floodnut

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The Impact Scenario
Does the biblical account allow for the possibility of any sort of cosmic event or events in connection with the Flood? Or, must the onset of the Flood be attributed exclusively to a divine decree, or angels pouring out buckets of water?
To approach the question from another angle, it might be asked, irrespective of the Flood, where exactly do the impacts recorded in Earth’s geological strata fit in the biblical scheme of things? If it should be assumed that cosmic events have nothing all to do with the Flood, then just where do the impacts fit in a complete and biblical picture of true reality? What event or group of events accounts for the apparent impacts of space objects on the earth?
Geological strata are found throughout the earth, as are extensive fossil beds –and both features are best accounted for by the Universal Flood in the opinion of most who are identified as “Young Earth Creationists.” In a similar vein, Creationists would do well to explain and treat the evidence of cosmic encounters, i.e. asteroids and comets, which have left craters at hundreds of points across the surface of the planet. These salient features of topography on the Earth and Moon, and other solar satellites as well, should be included in Creation/Flood models.

The trend of opinion among many scientists is that the Earth has been devastated by numerous major impacts during her supposed four billion years of existence. There seems to be no denying that impacts have occurred in the past with catastrophic results, contrary to the widely embraced doctrine of uniformitarianism.
In the world of secular science the extinction of dinosaurs is commonly blamed on a collision about 65 million years ago and the 110-mile crater of the alleged culprit impact is reportedly located in Mexico. Carl Weiland reviews The Great Extinction Mystery by Officer and Page, which disputes the notion that this Chicxulub feature of the Yucatan is an impact crater, or that it coincides with the demise of dinosaurs as a predominate group of animals on the planet. The evidence catalogued in the book suggests that it is something other than an impact, which is further buttressed by the work of Myerhoff and others.
Those who take the Bible seriously would assert that the dinosaurs were contemporaneous with man and that they were destroyed in the flood, except for those on the ark. Then the dinosaurs that came off the ark did not proliferate, and in the years following the flood they gradually became largely extinct.

In secular science nevertheless, many extinction events have been attributed to major impacts. An article in Scientific American charts the top five mass extinctions, and specifies that in three cases, some sort of cosmic impact precipitated the destruction, including an extinction event supposedly occurring 250 million years ago, in which 95 percent of marine species were eradicated, along with 70 percent of land species (Simpson 1-2).
Rosario Nici and Douglas Kaupa, both of the United States Air Force, list five impacts, one of which is said to have formed the Chesapeake Bay, east of Washington, D.C. The authors then declare, “Today there are 140 known impact sites on the Earth with many hundreds awaiting verification” (1). The surface of the Earth presents hundreds, yea thousands of impact craters, piquing curiosity about the circumstances of their formation. Three of the craters are nearly 200 miles in diameter: Vredefort, South Africa; Sudbury, Canada –north of Lake Huron; and possibly that notorious feature along the coast of the Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico. Dozens of other craters are known to exist, any one of which would likely have caused massive devastation if normal laws of physics had been in action. The Ries Basin in southern Germany, for example, is fifteen miles wide –an ancient crater twenty times wider than the famous crater in Arizona of the southwestern United States.

From the Young Earth perspective, what is the timeframe for the formation of these and other great craters on the surface of the earth today, as well as those in deeper geological strata? The time at which the lunar craters were formed, as well as those on other planets, is also included in this question.
 

FallingWaters

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I thought that the craters were created from impacts at the time that the windows of the heavens were opened.

Genesis 7:11 ESV
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the windows of the heavens were opened.
 
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laptoppop

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The Word says that the windows of heaven and the fountains of the deep were opened by God for the flood. It doesn't say how. I have no problem with God using impact events.

This would make it roughly 4,000 years ago in YEC chronology.
 
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Floodnut

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About 4000 years ago is a good round number, but it is closer to 4500, or to state it from the time of creation, it would be in the Year 1656 AC [After Creation].
And you are right, "It doesn't say how. . . ," but I am suggesting that the evidence of the strata and the marks in the crust suggest that there were a great many impacts in connection with the Flood. There are hundreds of impact craters worldwide. Where else would these event be assumed to have occurred if not during the Flood?
 
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keyarch

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About 4000 years ago is a good round number, but it is closer to 4500, or to state it from the time of creation, it would be in the Year 1656 AC [After Creation].
And you are right, "It doesn't say how. . . ," but I am suggesting that the evidence of the strata and the marks in the crust suggest that there were a great many impacts in connection with the Flood. There are hundreds of impact craters worldwide. Where else would these event be assumed to have occurred if not during the Flood?
I don't quite get the logic here. It seems to me that any "evidence" we would be able to see from the surface is from impacts after the flood that hit the top strata. Are you saying that there is evidence down at the bottom layers of these impacts? If so, how would we even see them "worldwide"?
Also, if there are layers of things like iridium down lower, couldn't that have come from volcanic action polluting the water and then it settled down during the flood?
 
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Floodnut

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I don't quite get the logic here. It seems to me that any "evidence" we would be able to see from the surface is from impacts after the flood that hit the top strata. Are you saying that there is evidence down at the bottom layers of these impacts? If so, how would we even see them "worldwide"?
Also, if there are layers of things like iridium down lower, couldn't that have come from volcanic action polluting the water and then it settled down during the flood?
It is not even certain the iridium is definitive evidence of the Yucatan impact. I am simply asking if the impacts (100s of them) did not occur during the Flood, where are they to be placed? Of course Barry Setterfield has them in the centuries following the flood, and I see that as possible for a comparative few of them, but the devastating extinction that would occur from the larger ones had to be during the Flood. I imagine something big at the beginning and then tapering off into fragments and more sporadic events in the closing days of the Flood and in the centuries that followed.
 
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FallingWaters

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It is not even certain the iridium is definitive evidence of the Yucatan impact. I am simply asking if the impacts (100s of them) did not occur during the Flood, where are they to be placed? Of course Barry Setterfield has them in the centuries following the flood, and I see that as possible for a comparative few of them, but the devastating extinction that would occur from the larger ones had to be during the Flood. I imagine something big at the beginning and then tapering off into fragments and more sporadic events in the closing days of the Flood and in the centuries that followed.
But aren't the "extinction" connections made as hair-brained theories for why the dinosaurs and other species went extinct.
As Creationists who believe Noah's Flood occurred, we don't need extinction theories connected with comets.
Do we?
 
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Floodnut

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But aren't the "extinction" connections made as hair-brained theories for why the dinosaurs and other species went extinct.
As Creationists who believe Noah's Flood occurred, we don't need extinction theories connected with comets.
Do we?
Every kind of extinction is postulated and accepted, EXCEPT the one that happened, the WORLD WIDE FLOOD.

My point is that the impacts DID OCCUR. So where do we place them in the YEC model? The only place they will fit is as a part of the Flood, occurring as a triggering mechanism, and then adding to the devastating sweeping and surging of repeated tsunamis during the Flood. The only extinction event in earth's history was the Flood, but it included all sorts of disaster elements, way beyond a rainstorm that lasted 40 days 40 nights.
 
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theIdi0t

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Every kind of extinction is postulated and accepted, EXCEPT the one that happened, the WORLD WIDE FLOOD.

My point is that the impacts DID OCCUR. So where do we place them in the YEC model? The only place they will fit is as a part of the Flood, occurring as a triggering mechanism, and then adding to the devastating sweeping and surging of repeated tsunamis during the Flood. The only extinction event in earth's history was the Flood, but it included all sorts of disaster elements, way beyond a rainstorm that lasted 40 days 40 nights.

But if this was the case, does this mean that Behemoth was not a dinosaur? Since he appears after the flood?
 
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busterdog

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But aren't the "extinction" connections made as hair-brained theories for why the dinosaurs and other species went extinct.
As Creationists who believe Noah's Flood occurred, we don't need extinction theories connected with comets.
Do we?

Not at all. Some creationist had this really funny seminar in which every aspect of the nebular hypothesis and some other required an errant rock to make the theory work. All those wierd spins, angular momentum, the location of the moon -- all explained by space rocks hitting something just right.

http://creationwiki.org/Spike_Psarris
 
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FallingWaters

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Every kind of extinction is postulated and accepted, EXCEPT the one that happened, the WORLD WIDE FLOOD.

My point is that the impacts DID OCCUR. So where do we place them in the YEC model? The only place they will fit is as a part of the Flood, occurring as a triggering mechanism, and then adding to the devastating sweeping and surging of repeated tsunamis during the Flood. The only extinction event in earth's history was the Flood, but it included all sorts of disaster elements, way beyond a rainstorm that lasted 40 days 40 nights.
Exactly.
 
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FallingWaters

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Oh, then how did they die?
Just like everything else does.
I suspect you meant how did they go extinct.
I don't believe they are extinct.

I believe that there are still some dinosaurs living:
Loch Ness monster, Mokele-Mbembe, etc.

If God only created the world about 6,000 years ago,
it's not that far-fetched to believe that in some remote areas of the earth dinosaurs still exist.
 
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Floodnut

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I suspect that question here is somewhat confrontational. But now that it is open season on Creationism what else would we expect. But we don't want to debate here so I will give our friend an opportunity to engage in friendly CREATIONIST DISCUSSION
 
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Floodnut

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Oh, then how did they die?
My dear friend, "TheIDIOT" since you are a hardcore creationist, how would you suggest that the dinosaurs died that were created on the fifth and sixth days of creation? I would love to hear your creationist views on this question.
 
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J0hnSm1th

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And you are right, "It doesn't say how. . . ," but I am suggesting that the evidence of the strata and the marks in the crust suggest that there were a great many impacts in connection with the Flood. There are hundreds of impact craters worldwide. Where else would these event be assumed to have occurred if not during the Flood?
But would not God have to suspend the laws of physics to preserve the Earth? So many impacts occuring in such a short time would impart a great deal of energy. The oceans would boil and the Earth would now look like Venus if God didnt protect it.
 
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Floodnut

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But would not God have to suspend the laws of physics to preserve the Earth? So many impacts occuring in such a short time would impart a great deal of energy. The oceans would boil and the Earth would now look like Venus if God didnt protect it.
except the impacts have ALL OCCURrED within 6000 years since the Creation. If your physics requires a miracle, then so be it. Of course we are talking from a Creationist perspective here, and that may be difficult for those who don't believe in the simple fact that the universal FLOOD DID TAKE PLACE as Peter affirimed.
 
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