Immorality in the Church

[Carl Emerson]

This statement was made by one of our members - it was posted in the devotional section which doesn't allow for replies or questioning.

The use of this devotional forum for promoting controversial opinion is questionable.

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"Statistics have it that up to 75% of Christian men are regularly engaged in viewing sexually explicit videos and images and movies, which includes up to 35% (or higher) of pastors. And many women and children are following suit. So sexual immorality in the church is huge! But this is the “elephant in the room” that most people don’t want to talk about, and if you do, you are regarded as the enemy."
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Such a claim needs to be referenced so we can see who made the 'statistic' and how.

When ever a statistic says 'up to X%' it sounds more like advertising an agenda than a scientific conclusion.

So for me the quote does not sound very scientific.

Can anyone confirm this claim with solid evidence please.

 

[Tinker Grey]

This link has different stats but cites Barna, generally considered reputable. I didn't check how Barna got the numbers : https://voices.lifeway.com/culture-...ut Christians?,of pastors regularly view porn.

 

[zippy2006]

"...that most people don’t want to talk about, and if you do, you are regarded as the enemy."

It is only this last clause that strikes me as implausible. I know many, many Christians who are willing to talk about this problem and do whatever they can to address it. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but the enemy-generalization is not correct.

 

[Carl Emerson]

This link has different stats but cites Barna, generally considered reputable. I didn't check how Barna got the numbers : https://voices.lifeway.com/culture-current-events/hope-in-the-midst-of-inappropriate content-addiction/#:~:text=But what about Christians?,of pastors regularly view inappropriate content.

Thanks Tinker - sadly I couldn't get the link to work.

 

[GodLovesCats]

"Statistics have it that up to 75% of Christian men are regularly engaged in viewing sexually explicit videos and images and movies, which includes up to 35% (or higher) of pastors. And many women and children are following suit. So sexual immorality in the church is huge! But this is the “elephant in the room” that most people don’t want to talk about, and if you do, you are regarded as the enemy."

@Carl Emerson

Such a claim needs to be referenced so we can see who made the 'statistic' and how.

When ever a statistic says 'up to X%' it sounds more like advertising an agenda than a scientific conclusion.

So for me the quote does not sound very scientific.

I totally agree with this, but Catholic priests (who the Church does not allow to marry) have a very long and well-known history of molesting and raping kids. On a political debate forum I see threads about Protestant pastors doing it too or preaching various forms of sexual immorality are good and getting in trouble for it. You do not even need to read any statistics to know the problem is getting worse.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Thanks Tinker - sadly I couldn't get the link to work.

Yeah, sorry. Something about the way my phone copied the link.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Thanks Tinker - sadly I couldn't get the link to work.

Yeah, sorry. Something about the way my phone copied the link.

OK. This one is copied via my laptop, let's see if it works: https://www.christianpost.com/news/...t-at-same-rate-as-secular-men-says-study.html

OK. I think CF is filtering the word p*rn. Just Google "percentage of christian men who view pornography" where "contentography" is replaced with the right word

 

[Carl Emerson]

@Carl Emerson


I totally agree with this, but Catholic priests (who the Church does not allow to marry) have a very long and well-known history of molesting and raping kids. On a political debate forum I see threads about Protestant pastors doing it too or preaching various forms of sexual immorality are good and getting in trouble for it. You do not even need to read any statistics to know the problem is getting worse.

Yes... but it is not a 75% problem unless I see evidence to the contrary.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The problem with the survey conducted for 'Proven Men' is not necessarily that it is wrong, but rather that it can give the wrong impression. A statistic that implies a significant majority of Christian men are consumers of porn is alarming. But it becomes less surprising when you realize many of those “Christian” men surveyed are nominally Christian or reject traditional sexual ethics.

Using data from the General Social Survey (GSS), Lyman Stone looked at the connection effect of both religious identity and religious attendance:

Across all religious groups in America, people who attend religious services more frequently are far less likely to view pornography. Nominally Protestant men are nearly five-times more likely to view pornographic films as men who frequently attend religious services (more than weekly). And across all levels of religious attendance, Protestant men are about 5 percent to 10 percentage points less likely to have viewed porn in the last year.

These are meaningful differences! They suggest that religiously-observant Protestants are experiencing a vastly lower rate of pornography use. [emphasis in original]

This comment was from here...

FactChecker: Do Christian Men Watch More Pornography?

Do Christian men—particularly those living in the “Bible Belt”—really consume as much, if not more, pornography than their non-religious peers?

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[Occams Barber]

OK. This one is copied via my laptop, let's see if it works: https://www.christianpost.com/news/...t-at-same-rate-as-secular-men-says-study.html

OK. I think CF is filtering the word p*rn. Just Google "percentage of christian men who view inappropriate contentography" where "contentography" is replaced with the right word

Your Google search terms brought up a page full of articles mentioning "that" problem amongst Christians including the Barna survey. Unlike PEW, Barna professes its faith so it is not always free of pro-Christian bias. Given its bias, a Barna article accusing the flock of dabbling in contentography is probably true.

At the top of the page there is an hilarious (but serious) "Fact Check" on Barna's stats by something called 'The Gospel Coalition'.

It's probably the most egregious case of 'No True Scotsman' I've come across in years.

Stop Press!
Quoted by @Carl Emerson in post #9

OB

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes... CF or Google makes the discussion difficult.

Thanks for your participation.

 

[GodLovesCats]

Yes... but it is not a 75% problem unless I see evidence to the contrary.

Yeah, I can't imagine where that "statistic" came from.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Your Google search terms brought up a page full of articles mentioning "that" problem amongst Christians including the Barna survey. Unlike PEW, Barna professes its faith so it is not always free of pro-Christian bias. Given its bias, a Barna article accusing the flock of dabbling in contentography is probably true.

At the top of the page there is an hilarious (but serious) "Fact Check" on Barna's stats by something called 'The Gospel Coalition'.

It's probably the most egregious case of 'No True Scotsman' I've come across in years.

Stop Press!
Quoted by @Carl Emerson in post #8.

OB

Correction - Post #9

 

[Occams Barber]

Correction - Post #9

Thanks Carl

OB

 

[Bradskii]

This statement was made by one of our members - it was posted in the devotional section which doesn't allow for replies or questioning.

The use of this devotional forum for promoting controversial opinion is questionable.

==================================================================
"Statistics have it that up to 75% of Christian men are regularly engaged in viewing sexually explicit videos and images and movies, which includes up to 35% (or higher) of pastors. And many women and children are following suit. So sexual immorality in the church is huge! But this is the “elephant in the room” that most people don’t want to talk about, and if you do, you are regarded as the enemy."
===================================================================

Such a claim needs to be referenced so we can see who made the 'statistic' and how.

When ever a statistic says 'up to X%' it sounds more like advertising an agenda than a scientific conclusion.

So for me the quote does not sound very scientific.

Can anyone confirm this claim with solid evidence please.

I don't think that the percentages of men who have watched 'it' over the last few weeks is really debateable. Let's say it's 75%. So that's 75% of ALL men. So that's 75% of male doctors, male bus drivers, male sportsmen, male librarians. Any group of men, however you determine it, will have somewhere in the region of 75%. And that will not exclude anyone of those doctors, bus drivers, sportsmen and librarians who call themselves Christian.

So I'm not seeing a problem. Unless you really think that Christians are considerably less sexually immoral than those who aren't? Which strikes me as somewhat naive.

 

[friend of]

So I'm not seeing a problem. Unless you really think that Christians are considerably less sexually immoral than those who aren't? Which strikes me as somewhat naive.

We have entire doctrines dedicated to sexual purity. If someone is loose and sleeping around it makes their profession dubious.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I don't think that the percentages of men who have watched 'it' over the last few weeks is really debateable. Let's say it's 75%. So that's 75% of ALL men. So that's 75% of male doctors, male bus drivers, male sportsmen, male librarians. Any group of men, however you determine it, will have somewhere in the region of 75%. And that will not exclude anyone of those doctors, bus drivers, sportsmen and librarians who call themselves Christian.

So I'm not seeing a problem. Unless you really think that Christians are considerably less sexually immoral than those who aren't? Which strikes me as somewhat naive.

The report said 68 not 75....

Not that the difference really matters.

By the way - the categories that you mentioned are not equally distributed.

 

[Occams Barber]

By the way - the categories that you mentioned are not equally distributed.

That doesn't matter. The claim is 75% (or 68%) of ALL men).

Pretending that Christians are a unique category, and then claiming that those viewers, within that unique category, are 'not true Christians' amounts to a disingenuous attempt to squirm out of a truth.

Christians, including their Pastors, watch contentography in significant numbers. And, yes, I've read the Barna summary. The original report dates from 2016 and was on limited availability.

Christians are as moral, or immoral, as the rest of us. The difference is in the hypocrisy.

Live with it.

OB

 

[Bradskii]

The report said 68 not 75....

Not that the difference really matters.

By the way - the categories that you mentioned are not equally distributed.

Yeah, that would tie in with any figure. As approx. 2/3 of Americans are Christians.

I think we could adjust and fine tune the figures until we are both satisfied. But my overall point was that it's not reasonable to expect Christians to be much more morally upright than any given population group. And I don't know how you would separate the 'Christian population' from the 'general population'. In the US, Christians ARE the general population.

 

[Bradskii]

We have entire doctrines dedicated to sexual purity. If someone is loose and sleeping around it makes their profession dubious.

It does indeed. But I don't think that just because one does not have a belief doesn't make one more inclined to be sexually immoral. And nominating oneself as being Christian doesn't prevent it.