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It's a legend. If the church unofficially adopted it in the same way as we've filled in some of the details concerning the Incarnation--like saying that the wise men were Zoroastrian priests or that one of them was black (per almost every creche you see) etc.--these remain legends that we perpetuate out of custom and because they're harmless so long as we do not make doctrine out of it. That's what the idea of Joseph being much older or the sire of other children who came before Jesus amounts to.Calling the ancient witness of the Church, legend, does not make it anything other than the ancient witness of the Church.
I'm well acquainted w/Dr. Stanley. I worked in Christian broadcasting for 7 years in Atlanta and have several close friends who actually work at In Touch. However, the person I referred to is linked in my post (linkage again).I assume you are referring to Dr. Stanley. If so then yes, he is a wonderful Christian teacher and Pastor.
I would find it almost unbelievable that you would find your way out of and away from his Biblical foundational teachings.
However, I am very glad you are comfortable with where you are.
It's a legend. If the church unofficially adopted it in the same way as we've filled in some of the details concerning the Incarnation--like saying that the wise men were Zoroastrian priests or that one of them was black (per almost every creche you see) etc.--these remain legends that we perpetuate out of custom and because they're harmless so long as we do not make doctrine out of it. That's what the idea of Joseph being much older or the sire of other children who came before Jesus amounts to.
I'm well acquainted w/Dr. Stanley. I worked in Christian broadcasting for 7 years in Atlanta and have several close friends who actually work at In Touch. However, the person I referred to is linked in my post (linkage again).
That's true. I never gave it any thought, but it seems as though he would be represented as an older man.I agree with that.
It is funny though that if you have been in as many Catholic churches as I have,(that is an assumption) every single statue of Joseph pictures him as a young man almost looking as young as Mary in most.
Yes, I understand that this is your opinion.It's a legend.
It's taught as the factual interpretation in Protestant churches and on Protestant radio, that makes it official from my perspective.It's not an "official teaching of Protestantism."
Protestant churches claim to be One Church guided by One Spirit. Therefore I hold you collectively responsible for any teaching taught officially in Protestant churches, just as it would be fair for you to hold the Orthodox collectively responsible for any teaching taught officially in Orthodox churches.Thank you for adjusting your statement. Of course, some persons will say such things. My criticism was only about the statement that it's official teaching and, further, that that is the case with all Protestant churches. Neither of those is correct to say.
No, Scripture doesn't say his siblings are Mary's children ANYWHERE. In fact, Acts 1:14 doesn't group Mary as the mother of Christ's siblings, but lists them separately after saying she is the Mother of Christ.I can not agree with that.
Protestants teach that the siblings of Jesus are Mary's children because that is exactly what the Scriptures actually say. We do not need to fabricate or think up anything. We just read the words and accept them as they are.
Matthew 13:56 reads..........
“Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas? Aren’t all his sisters with us?”
You still are talking as though there's some particular denomination involved. Not only have you identified none, but you are only talking about individuals anyway. Yet you called it "official." No. You're not even close.It's taught as the factual interpretation in Protestant churches and on Protestant radio, that makes it official from my perspective.
Protestant churches claim to be One Church guided by One Spirit. .
I am getting rather tired of your strawmen. I did not say it is found in Scripture, I said it is in complete harmony with Scripture.That simply is not he case at all. I hate to keep saying this because it makes me look like I have lost my memory. But the truth is that the suggestion that Joseph was married previous to being mentioned in Scripture as Mary’s betrothed is completely fictional. There is no scriptural evidence, or even a subtle suggestion, that Joseph was married to anyone but Mary. The idea that Mary was Joseph’s second wife originated with Catholic tradition in an effort to explain the existence of Jesus’ “brothers and sisters.
You are welcome to believe that teaching but please understand that there is nothing in the Scriptures to validate it. IF there was, you and every other Catholic would have shared it and we would not be having this lovely conversation.
I can assure you that my posts are not fiction. Once again your response simply does not address what I have written, and I have to admit it is getting rather tiresome.My dear friend, that just is not so either. How can I acknowledge something that does not exist?????
Yet another strawman. I have not once mentioned the Catholic Church. Everything I have posted is the teaching of the Orthodox Church and was well established long before Rome seperated and started 'developing' their doctrine.The Catholic church calling itself the pillar and ground of truth is like the wolf being caught in the henhouse and he says the farmer threw him in the pen. The Catholic church can say whatever it chooses to say and you can believe everything they say. However, what I am saying yet once again....
those teaching to do apply to me and the rest of Protestant believers for ONE reason....................
none of them are found in God's Word the Bible. Those doctrines you posted are Catholic doctrines and are in NO way Bible doctrines.
If I am combatative, it is out of frustration at having to deal with your non responses which do not address what I have posted. I don't know if it a deliberate tactic of yours or if you really do have a problem with comprehension, but it is extremely annoying either way.I really do not think that I have been anymore combative toward you than you have been toward me. If my responses to you have not been what you would like them to be, it is probably because I tend to respond to people as they respond to me. I will try to do better as I know you will as well.
I am getting rather tired of your strawmen. I did not say it is found in Scripture, I said it is in complete harmony with Scripture.
I can assure you that my posts are not fiction. Once again your response simply does not address what I have written, and I have to admit it is getting rather tiresome.
Yet another strawman. I have not once mentioned the Catholic Church. Everything I have posted is the teaching of the Orthodox Church and was well established long before Rome seperated and started 'developing' their doctrine.
If I am combatative, it is out of frustration at having to deal with your non responses which do not address what I have posted. I don't know if it a deliberate tactic of yours or if you really do have a problem with comprehension, but it is extremely annoying either way.
No, Scripture doesn't say his siblings are Mary's children ANYWHERE. In fact, Acts 1:14 doesn't group Mary as the mother of Christ's siblings, but lists them separately after saying she is the Mother of Christ.
Your reading of Scripture did not exist five hundred years ago, a thousand years ago, fifteen hundred years ago, or two thousand years ago. It is a brand new reading, you "developed" your understanding and changed it, just like the Papists. And you will continue to do so, year after year. A hundred years from now, Protestantism will be still more different in how the Bible is understood, in ways that are at odds with today's Protestantism (and the "new understanding" will be called "conservative" when in fact it is innovative, just like the new understanding of today is). Your philosophy is one of change, like the Papists, one of doctrine improving and becoming more accurate; the only difference is you use "improved" understanding of the Bible to justify it. If the Protestant Church were guided by the Spirit of Truth, you wouldn't waffle on your doctrines, you would have consistent, unchanging doctrines. But your doctrines are not consistent and unchanging, you keep changing them! What's more, you teach contradictory dogma in different Protestant churches! How can you claim even remotely that the Spirit of Truth is guiding your Church when different, contradictory dogmatic truths are being taught within it? And they change over time?
There is One Spirit, One Truth. And He doesn't waffle, and He isn't a cacophony.
That's true. I never gave it any thought, but it seems as though he would be represented as an older man.
He represented as older in Orthodox iconography...it seems as though he would be represented as an older man.
Interesting to know.He represented as older in Orthodox iconography.
Art forms are not an issue I can speak to with any authority.Interesting to know.
Incidentally, I was thinking earlier that this might have something to do with Western art forms because, as is often noted, the babe in many manger scenes or 'Madonna and Child' paintings often doesn't look like a newborn, either.
Why would it matter if a particular denomination is involved, if you all identify as One Church? If non-denominational churches do it, that would make no difference.You still are talking as though there's some particular denomination involved. Not only have you identified none, but you are only talking about individuals anyway. Yet you called it "official." No. You're not even close.
What does the Bible say about the virgin Mary?Another round of claiming that "Protestant churches" believe something or other, when that's totally false. What Protestant churches are you talking about? What have they said that would cause you to make this allegation?
No Orthodox church teaches that, no. No official Orthodox site suggests that, no.By the way, the Orthodox churches officially believe that the Czar of Russia will return to reclaim his throne. Well...I know a couple of people who are Orthodox and they say this, so is it accurate for me to say what I did here?
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