Immaculate Conception - Why Did It Take 1,854 Years to Discover This Doctrine?

[Hentenza]

then where the mention of the younger "siblings" ?

Does it have to?

 

[Thekla]

Does it have to?

nah, especially if they were all named Jesus

 

[sunlover1]

there is no proof that they did have 'relations'

further, if Mary had a sister named Mary, there is an implication that sibling terms could be applied to those who were not full-blood siblings.

Hello Thekla, good to see you around.

I have a question.
As a married couple, why would Mary,
the mother of Jesus Christ, withold
from her husband what is due him?

Thanks,
sunlover

 

[Thekla]

Hello Thekla, good to see you around.

I have a question.
As a married couple, why would Mary,
the mother of Jesus Christ, withold
from her husband what is due him?

Thanks,
sunlover

Paul was quite clear that "continence" can be practiced within marriage with a. the agreement of both spouses and b. for a spiritual purpose.

What is agreed upon is not withheld.

Joseph was told "who" Jesus was by an angel; the Messiah.
(I think that'd have an effect on me )

 

[Rick Otto]

Me too, but it wouldn't geld me.

I would give pause, but then I'd think about it... He made me what I am.
Celebecy or not, motivation is everything.
I think I would choose to celebrate my created being.
Periods of celebacy, fasting if you will, occur within marraiges, sometimes even for positive spiritual reasons.
But a permanent fast or ban would be exceptional to the extreme. And the only problem I then have, is that it seems every possible chance is exploited to exceptionalize this couple, which in turn incrementaly places them out of reach of anyone we can identify with as a person.
So it depersonalizes them, and idolizes them.
So sue me.

 

[Thekla]

Me too, but it wouldn't geld me.

I would give pause, but then I'd think about it... He made me what I am.
Celebecy or not, motivation is everything.
I think I would choose to celebrate my created being.
Periods of celebacy, fasting if you will, occur within marraiges, sometimes even for positive spiritual reasons.
But a permanent fast or ban would be exceptional to the extreme. And the only problem I then have, is that it seems every possible chance is exploited to exceptionalize this couple, which in turn incrementaly places them out of reach of anyone we can identify with as a person.
So it depersonalizes them, and idolizes them.
So sue me.

sue you ?

I don't even know your address
(lucky sheriff who serves them papers...)

well, it may, or it may not 'exceptionalize' them.
We don't know (biblically) their age.
Abstinence was normal during 'uncleans' times, for women.
There are couples who have done this (by agreement)
And Orthodoxy is pretty clear - we don't all have the same 'calling', but we do share a goal - Christ.

 

[Brennin]

Well, considering the fact that both Joseph and Mary brought Jesus to Jerusalem when He was 12, I would say that either Joseph and Mary were properly married or I cringe at the alternative.

I pray that Our Lady of the Grilled Cheese Sandwich blunts your reason so that you may accept the holy doctrine of perpetual virginity.

 

[Hentenza]

I pray that Our Lady of the Grilled Cheese Sandwich blunts your reason so that you may accept the holy doctrine of perpetual virginity.

LOL!!! You lost me there.

 

[Hentenza]

nah, especially if they were all named Jesus

 

[Thekla]

I pray that Our Lady of the Grilled Cheese Sandwich blunts your reason so that you may accept the holy doctrine of perpetual virginity.

:o

uh-oh

its the warp-spasm

put down the gae bolga !

 

[Brennin]

LOL!!! You lost me there.

A decade-old toasted cheese sandwich said to bear an image of the Virgin Mary has sold on the eBay auction website for $28,000.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4034787.stm

 

[Rick Otto]

quote=Thekla:There are couples who have done this (by agreement)And Orthodoxy is pretty clear - we don't all have the same 'calling', but we do share a goal - Christ.

Ok, but gee whiz, what about the part where I sounded college edjucated, you know, where I used big words like "depersonalize" and stuff? Cain't ya see fit ta throw some bookstore words at that?


Wow. Only $28,000?

 

[Hentenza]

A decade-old toasted cheese sandwich said to bear an image of the Virgin Mary has sold on the eBay auction website for $28,000.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4034787.stm

Got it now!!!

 

[Thekla]

Ok, but gee whiz, what about the part where I sounded college edjucated, you know, where I used big words like "depersonalize" and stuff? Cain't ya see fit ta throw some bookstore words at that?


Wow. Only $28,000?

I'm in the middle of making cookies -- whaddya expect ?

wait: the tectonic shift of cultural evolution subsumes referent variances into a morraine of cookies piled on the plate of life ... uhhhh

kourembiades (butter cookies)

or: plate of shrimp (Repo Man)

 

[sunlover1]

Paul was quite clear that "continence" can be practiced within marriage with a. the agreement of both spouses and b. for a spiritual purpose.

For life is what you suggested though.
It's acceptable for times of fasting.
Marriage was created so that they
would produce godly offspring.
Cant do that if you're always fasting.

Joseph was told "who" Jesus was by an angel; the Messiah.
(I think that'd have an effect on me

To have a marriage where the natural use
of a woman is discarded?
Too many loopholes.
Too many explanations needed
to explain away the givens.

Me too, but it wouldn't geld me.

I would give pause, but then I'd think about it... He made me what I am.
Celebecy or not, motivation is everything.
I think I would choose to celebrate my created being.
Periods of celebacy, fasting if you will, occur within marraiges, sometimes even for positive spiritual reasons.

lol

But a permanent fast or ban would be exceptional to the extreme. And the only problem I then have, is that it seems every possible chance is exploited to exceptionalize this couple, which in turn incrementaly places them out of reach of anyone we can identify with as a person.
So it depersonalizes them, and idolizes them.
So sue me.

Exactly.
And as you say, depersonalizes them, in that
it is similar to the accusation toward protestants
of calling her JUST the maiden used.
In this case, she was just used to make Jesus,
but not to live a full life.

 

[sunlover1]

I'm in the middle of making cookies -- whaddya expect ?

wait: the tectonic shift of cultural evolution subsumes referent variances into a morraine of cookies piled on the plate of life ... uhhhh

kourembiades (butter cookies)

or: plate of shrimp (Repo Man)

I THINK you better check your priorities.
Now which is more urgent, bantering with
rick or eating cookies?

 

[Thekla]

For life is what you suggested though.
It's acceptable for times of fasting.
Marriage was created so that they
would produce godly offspring.
Cant do that if you're always fasting.

fasting ? I'm getting ready to sample butter-cookies piled in confectioners sugar, please

ok; everyone knew one family would "produce" the messiah
also, if it is true that Joseph was advanced in age, other standards may apply.

To have a marriage where the natural use
of a woman is discarded?
Too many loopholes.
Too many explanations needed
to explain away the givens.

I think Orthodoxy has a somewhat different view of 'natural'; natural is doing God's will, whatever it may be. As one priest put it; the most natural thing in the world is to be a Christian. Its what we were created to be. So, basically, what is natural for the person is God's will for them. Sometimes, that looks a bit odd to others (like Elias being fed by Ravens, or Abraham wandering off 'following his star', the Israelites painting their homes with blood, or a 'fool in Christ' serving a slab of raw meat to Tsar Ivan the Terrible on a fast-day).

Exactly.
And as you say, depersonalizes them, in that
it is similar to the accusation toward protestants
of calling her JUST the maiden used.
In this case, she was just used to make Jesus,
but not to live a full life.

if life is only full when we are in Christ, then any life where Christ is the center -- no matter how apparently 'drab' -- is full

(first batch smells done, be back in a bit )

 

[Thekla]

I THINK you better check your priorities.
Now which is more urgent, bantering with
rick or eating cookies?

well ..... cookies

(and I don't want to get the keyboard sticky)

 

[habeas]

I don't have time to read through this entire thread. Can someone just give me the short version (of the answer to the OP)?

 

[sunlover1]

fasting ? I'm getting ready to sample butter-cookies piled in confectioners sugar, please

Mmmmmm

They smell like you better check em.

ok; everyone knew one family would "produce" the messiah
also, if it is true that Joseph was advanced in age, other standards may apply.

Why?
How old is 'too' old?

I think Orthodoxy has a somewhat different view of 'natural'; natural is doing God's will, whatever it may be. As one priest put it; the most natural thing in the world is to be a Christian. Its what we were created to be. So, basically, what is natural for the person is God's will for them.

I agree, but was speaking of this natural use:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5045274#_ftn1

But we do know what God created woman for.
HE created woman for man.
Neither was the man created for the woman;
but the woman for the manhttp://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5045274#_ftn1
http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5045274#_ftnref1


http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5045274#_ftnref1

if life is only full when we are in Christ, then any life where Christ is the center -- no matter how apparently 'drab' -- is full

Yeah, and I realise that sex isnt our 'destiny',
but it is a part of marriage, biblically speaking.

15 And did not he make one?
Yet had he the residued of the spirit.
And wherefore one?
That he might seek a godly seed.


15 Didn’t the Lord make you one with your wife?
In body and spirit you are his.*
And what does he want?
Godly children from your unionhttp://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5045274#_ftn2
* Or Didn’t the one Lord make us and preserve our life and breath? or Didn’t the one Lord make her, both flesh and spirit? The meaning of the Hebrew is uncertain.

http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5045274#_ftnref2


http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=postreply&t=5045274#_ftnref2

(first batch smells done, be back in a bit

Mmmm.
I made spice cake and fudge cupcakes
today otherwise I'd be coveting your
butter cookies lol.
OH okay, so I"m still coveting