I'm Grafted In, yes?!

1John2:4 said:

Vis- thanks so much for your help. What about Jerimiah 31, are we all in the new Covenant yet when we accept Messiah or does that come after His second return, or are the Gentiles in now and until they have fully come in does natural branches of Israel come in?

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Never go faster than evidence reveals. The new covenant is a new and improved old covenant, just remember Yeshua reveals what has happened by His sacrifice, what was a rehearsal is a reality, what was a rehearsal is now a memorial. Both are commemorated and both are celebrated differently yet are about the same thing.

1John2:4 said:

Vis- thanks so much for your help. What about Jerimiah 31, are we all in the new Covenant yet when we accept Messiah or does that come after His second return, or are the Gentiles in now and until they have fully come in does natural branches of Israel come in?

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Did you read post #14? It explains the 'New Covenant' and the continuing true Law.

1John2:4 said:

thanks for your replies if you don't mind I have a a few more questions.

So if you accept the blood of the lamb you are not yet in the new Covenant? Does He die again to make the new Covenant?

What about Isaiah 56?

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The New Covenant

Heber Book List said:

Did you read post #14? It explains the 'New Covenant' and the continuing true Law.

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Thanks I am in the process of reviewing Hebrews and Psalms after re reading your post.

Steve Petersen said:

The New Covenant

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Thank you I look forward to listening to this

1John2:4 said:

So the covenant now is the Davidic or the New Covenent? I'm sorry I am just trying to understand Covenant thology a little better this is something that i am a little confused about. I appreciate your help.

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Like I said: *ALL* the covenants that I listed are now in force. The Davidic covenant is that the Messiah is through David's line. Is that true? Last time I checked. Is the New Covenant in force? Last time I checked.

Open Heart said:

Like I said: *ALL* the covenants that I listed are now in force. The Davidic covenant is that the Messiah is through David's line. Is that true? Last time I checked. Is the New Covenant in force? Last time I checked.

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I never thought of it that way, you are right they are all In force. Thank you

1John2:4 said:

I never thought of it that way, you are right they are all In force. Thank you

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It is clear to see from scripture that the A'aronic Priestly line ended when Yeshua came to earth. Yeshua is of the Melchizedek line - all the promises are transferred to that line, which is the pure Law of G_d, as in the teaching of Yeshua, and as are all the curses, as well!

If we leave the Covenantal promises to run through the A'aronic line, they have no meaning because the line is defunct - there is no Temple, no Priesthood, no sacrifices, and so no Covenants. The Covenants have been restored but now run through the line of Melchizedek, thus Yeshua fulfills the Law by the fact that, as the High Priest, he chose to lay down his own life, to be the salvation for many, and to maintain all that G_d had said and decreed, including all the Covenants.

What G_d has has done is to draw a line under what was in the past, and has introduced the original Priestly line through Yeshua, who came to earth to show us just that - by the many times he corrected the understanding of the Law and fought against the autocratic Pharisees who had perverted the application of the pure Law, as given by G_d. He spent his time on earth NOT restoring what was in the past, but by showing us how G_d wanted to start again, but not with a watered down Law, or a sacrificial system that had become nothing but lip service.


[corrected typos)

1John2:4 said:

Are these folks from Africa and Asia going into Rabbinical Judism or Messianic?

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They were forced to convert to Rabbinic Judaism when they were brought to Israel.

1John2:4 said:

Vis- thanks so much for your help. What about Jerimiah 31, are we all in the new Covenant yet when we accept Messiah or does that come after His second return, or are the Gentiles in now and until they have fully come in does natural branches of Israel come in?

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There are many aspect to the New covenant and the changes from the old covenant was best stated by Paul..

Romans 9:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Understand that as the people of the commonwealth of Israel, both born again, whether Jew or Gentle, first comes to us when we accept the Messiah, enters into our lives when we live it and bears fruit.

Ephesians 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

This new covenant is the embodiment of the old covenant in spirit and in truth, just not the letter of the law as our understanding of the Messiah has role played a lot of parts and we accept His work on our behalf. Remember the old covenant was broken because of unbelief, so also is the new covenant. The covenant between man and God has always been a spiritual relationship lived out from the heart. It has always been God's intent to administer the covenant with us, but the Israelites jumped up with "all you say we will do".. good intent.. but hard to execute without spiritual understanding. Thus Yeshua comes and promises the Holy Spirit who will come and teach us.

Romans 11:27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

In order to know the whole process of how sins are taken away and at what cost, you have to know the covenant. It is a process. Separating people from their sins is not simple nor easy for either parties.

Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

When a old covenant has been broken, even if the same covenant is given again, it is considered new because amendments have been given to clarify, thus we know how Messiah Yeshua is our sacrifice, our Lamb of God, our sin bearer, and now dwells in the heavenly sanctuary to perform the High Priest duties on our behalf.

Hebrews 8:9
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

When we grasp that it is the same covenant but with a better understanding as to which roles we are to participate in, those which were a rehearsal to teach us to understand what Yeshua will do, and those that have yet to be fulfilled by Yeshua and how we are to relate to them in a memorial that has yet to come to pass.

Leviticus 23:24
Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.

danny ski said:

That's a good theory, but if you're not grafted into Rabbinic Judaism, what Judaism are you grafted into? There is no other Judaism.

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Actually there are other Judaisms.

Karaite Judaism is a non-rabbinic traditional Judaism, related somewhat to the Sadducean beliefs and practice of the first century.

Messianic Judaism is a New Covenant Judaism.

pat34lee said:

They were forced to convert to Rabbinic Judaism when they were brought to Israel.

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Thank you

Dave-W said:

Actually there are other Judaisms.

Karaite Judaism is a non-rabbinic traditional Judaism, related somewhat to the Sadducean beliefs and practice of the first century.

Messianic Judaism is a New Covenant Judaism.

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Yes, Karaites, all five of them(I know, there are few more). Surely you don't say you want to attach yourself to them? As for MJ, isn't that the attempt at grafting? At some point we must acknowledge that in the here and now the Rabbinic Judaism is it.

danny ski said:

As for MJ, isn't that the attempt at grafting?

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No. It is a redefining of Judaism from a New Covenant perspective.
Yes it will bear many similarities to R.J. After all, no need to re-invent the wheel.

Dave-W said:

No. It is a redefining of Judaism from a New Covenant perspective.
Yes it will bear many similarities to R.J. After all, no need to re-invent the wheel.

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I can tell you with 100% certainty that the only way you can redefine Judaism is from within, not without. Actually, that applies to all religions.

danny ski said:

I can tell you with 100% certainty that the only way you can redefine Judaism is from within, not without.

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Of course.

That is why there are Jews doing just that. The Modern messianic movement started in the late 1800s by 3 orthodox rabbis.

Dave-W said:

Of course.

That is why there are Jews doing just that. The Modern messianic movement started in the late 1800s by 3 orthodox rabbis.

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When and who started the ancient Messianic movement?

Steve Petersen said:

When and who started the ancient Messianic movement?

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That is recorded in the Book of Acts and in the Gospels.

Steve Petersen said:

When and who started the ancient Messianic movement

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In the late 1800s an Chadisic Jew, Rabbi Joseph Rabinowitz, whilst in Jerusalem, became convinced that the fullness of the restoration of all Jews could only be under the umbrella of Yeshua. He introduced his idea of an autonomous, indigenous Hebrew Christian community, but died before it came together.

Rabbi Paul Levertoff, another Chadisic Jew, who held the Chair of Hebrew Rabbinics at the Jewish Institute of Leipzig, came to London and, effectively, brought about what Rabinowitz had wanted to do. He later became an Ordained Minister in the Church of England and started an MJ church in London, where Jews and Christians worshipped in line with the Feasts etc etc.

The MJ movement was founded. The UK had a Messianic Jewish Prime Minister - Benjamin Disraeli. A very well-known Messianic Gentile was also around at that time: William Wilberforce, the anti-slavery fighter, and several other well known names.

That is a very brief account, obviously.