I'm Grafted In, yes?!

[teresa]

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

HalleluYAH!

 

[Meowzltov]

Grafted in does NOT mean you are no longer a Gentile. That is a fundamental misunderstanding of what grafting is. The graft remains the species it is. It simply benefits from the superior root system.

"Wild olive" (Oleandar) is actually a different species than regular ol' olive. Oleandar doesn't become true olive simply by being grafted onto an olive root.

This post is not to be misinterpreted as saying that Gentiles are second class or less than or less loved or anything of the kind. In fact, Gentiles are so equal to Jews (even though we are different) that there is no reason they should envy Jews or want to become Jews.

 

[ChavaK]

Grafted in does NOT mean you are no longer a Gentile. That is a fundamental misunderstanding of what grafting is. The graft remains the species it is. It simply benefits from the superior root system.

"Wild olive" (Oleandar) is actually a different species than regular ol' olive. Oleandar doesn't become true olive simply by being grafted onto an olive root.

This post is not to be misinterpreted as saying that Gentiles are second class or less than or less loved or anything of the kind. In fact, Gentiles are so equal to Jews (even though we are different) that there is no reason they should envy Jews or want to become Jews.

It's been a trend for awhile for some groups of Messianic Gentiles to claim they are no longer Gentiles because all Gentiles are pagan. They believe in two groups, pagan and Jew. You can't be a Gentile if you are Messianic because that would mean you are a pagan. Ergo you are a "Hebrew" or "Israelite" or some even claiming to be "Jews". It makes no sense to me, but there you go.

 

[Heber Book List]

Several years ago, now, I coined the term 'Reverse Replacement Theology' for just this situation, where Gentiles believe themselves to be Jews, thus flooding true Judaism with Gentiles; it waters down true Judaism when Gentiles claim to be Jews, without conversion.

As I have said on these fora many times - if you have to ask if you are a Jew then the chances are that you are not, so do not pretend to be.

Study, carefully, Paul's letter to the Galatians

 

[Meowzltov]

It's been a trend for awhile for some groups of Messianic Gentiles to claim they are no longer Gentiles because all Gentiles are pagan. They believe in two groups, pagan and Jew. You can't be a Gentile if you are Messianic because that would mean you are a pagan. Ergo you are a "Hebrew" or "Israelite" or some even claiming to be "Jews". It makes no sense to me, but there you go.

You are right, ChavaK. They are free to voice their opinions here in this forum, and I'm free to tell them how wrong they are, and how insulting it is to us MJ's who actually are Jews.

And I don't get it, because by that logic it implies that "Gentile" is a bad thing, when the truth is God made Gentile and Jew and loves us both. I think their philosophy stems from a misunderstanding: they got the idea from somewhere that Jews were "better" somehow, and they developed an inferiority complex. How awful!!!!!!! Therefore my way of dealing with it is to assure them that God loves them just as much as a Gentile, and there is really no reason for a Gentile to become a Jew. We even have a scripture to that effect.

I think all of us, when we first wake up in the morning, should bless God, praying, "Thank you O Lord my God for making me exactly who I am."

 

[pat34lee]

Grafted in does NOT mean you are no longer a Gentile. That is a fundamental misunderstanding of what grafting is. The graft remains the species it is. It simply benefits from the superior root system.

"Wild olive" (Oleandar) is actually a different species than regular ol' olive. Oleandar doesn't become true olive simply by being grafted onto an olive root.

This post is not to be misinterpreted as saying that Gentiles are second class or less than or less loved or anything of the kind. In fact, Gentiles are so equal to Jews (even though we are different) that there is no reason they should envy Jews or want to become Jews.

Oleanders are a shrub, not a tree, and all parts of the plant are toxic.
You cannot graft a shrub to a tree, even if it weren't toxic.
So-called wild olive trees in Israel are not wild, but descendants of cultivated orchards.

 

[Meowzltov]

Oleanders are a shrub, not a tree, and all parts of the plant are toxic.
You cannot graft a shrub to a tree, even if it weren't toxic.
So-called wild olive trees in Israel are not wild, but descendants of cultivated orchards.

I stand by what I said. Oleander is described as a large shrub OR a small tree. It CAN be grafted. Oleander IS wild Olive.

 

[pat34lee]

I stand by what I said. Oleander is described as a large shrub OR a small tree. It CAN be grafted. Oleander IS wild Olive.

It is called that because it looks similar to olive trees, but it is not related.
If you try to graft them together, it will likely kill the host.

"It is the only species currently classified in the genus Nerium. It is most commonly known as nerium[4] or oleander, from its superficial resemblance to the unrelated olive "Olea"
Nerium - Wikipedia

 

[Meowzltov]

It is called that because it looks similar to olive trees, but it is not related.
If you try to graft them together, it will likely kill the host.

The whole point of grafting is that you graft two totally unrelated trees. For example, you graft a branch of a peach tree onto a plum root. It doesn't kill the peach branch. It actually bears much better yummier peaches, because the plum root system is superior.

 

[pat34lee]

.

 

[1John2:4]

We are grafted into the cultivated olive tree and now we are able to partake of the promise. I believe the Word says that when Gentiles accept Messiah we are grafted in to Israel. Wild olive trees are still olive trees the gentiles who believed in God are wild olive trees once we accept Yeshua we are grafted in. Cultivated olive trees are strong, as Paul said the Jews hold the oricicles of God. Grafting the wild olive tree to the cultivated olive tree would make the wild olive tree strong, the wild olive tree also strengthens the cultivated olive tree. I never really understood this fully until my mom started a pecan tree farm. All of the trees were grafted, she told me they were all grafted because that was the strongest most resilient type of tree was the grafted tree. I do agree we are not grafted into Rabbinical Judism, in order to do that you must undertake a long and complicated process that takes years, my mom converted to Rabbinical Judism over 10 years ago and it took her a couple of years. God does not have that type of expectation according to His word to be a part of His family. Accept His Son and repent from lawlessness now we can walk in newness of life.

 

[danny ski]

We are grafted into the cultivated olive tree and now we are able to partake of the promise. I believe the Word says that when Gentiles accept Messiah we are grafted in to Israel. Wild olive trees are still olive trees the gentiles who believed in God are wild olive trees once we accept Yeshua we are grafted in. Cultivated olive trees are strong, as Paul said the Jews hold the oricicles of God. Grafting the wild olive tree to the cultivated olive tree would make the wild olive tree strong, the wild olive tree also strengthens the cultivated olive tree. I never really understood this fully until my mom started a pecan tree farm. All of the trees were grafted, she told me they were all grafted because that was the strongest most resilient type of tree was the grafted tree. I do agree we are not grafted into Rabbinical Judism, in order to do that you must undertake a long and complicated process that takes years, my mom converted to Rabbinical Judism over 10 years ago and it took her a couple of years. God does not have that type of expectation according to His word to be a part of His family. Accept His Son and repent from lawlessness now we can walk in newness of life.

That's a good theory, but if you're not grafted into Rabbinic Judaism, what Judaism are you grafted into? There is no other Judaism.

 

[Heber Book List]

Being 'grafted in' is explained in Scripture by the analogy of a graft being made to a tree. This is a good analogy and, over the years, much has been said about being fed by the sap that rises from the original tree to nurture all the branches, including the one grafted in. Who are the leaves, who are branches, who are the fruit etc etc.

I think far too much is made of the analogy, at the cost of understanding what is actually being said by G_d. We should leave the arboretum, and turn to Scripture:

Let's take a very brief look through Scripture and make some connections. Back in Genesis, Abram meets with Melchizedek at the battle of the kings, which Abram won, and he gave 10% of the booty to Melchizedek, who shared with him bread and wine. Melchizedek is called the King of Peace - Yeshua is called the Prince of Peace - thus there is, immediately, a father / son relationship established throughout Scripture, as well as the obvious connection between the Father and the Son, spiritually, as well as humanly, as Philippians 2. Philippians 2 tells us that Yeshua came to earth 'as one of us' to show us, I believe, the separation between the A'aronic Priestly line and the parallel Melchizedek Priestly line, which was, and is, centred upon true Torah by way of loving obedience and a close communion with G_d, though Yeshua, in the new power of the Holy Spirit which came to be a 'new' sign in Acts (though miracles do occur in the Tanach, as well as in the Christian testament).

Melchizedek is the Priestly line of Yeshua - a direct Priestly line, separate from, and completely independent of, the line created through A'aron. As we know, there cannot be two High Priests at the same time, doing the same job and so, when Yeshua arrived on the scene, the sacrifices stopped - the old A'aronic Priestly line came to an end, with Caiaphas tearing his gown - an act that, the Law says, will be punishable by death; in this case, the death of the A'aronic Priestly line. In its place, Yeshua - the High Priest in the Melchizedek Priestly line - came to tell us, and show us, what this new Line is all about. This is, I believe, what is written in regard to Yeshua coming to fulfill the Law - certainly not to scrap it, or re-write it - to bring in, over and against the corruption of the A'aronic Priestly line, as it was at that time, the purity of the Priestly line of Melchizedek and, with that, a renewed emphasis on the Torah, in all its purity, as G_d intended it to be.

Now, what Paul was speaking of, often, is this very thing. In Romans 8-11, he speaks about all true believers being grafted into this Priestly line of Melchizedek - the priesthood of all [true] believers where there will be, no more, Jew nor Gentile, male or female, slave or free, as categories of people in this new Line. Paul really tries to get to grips with this new entity, but without saying that the old Law has been done away with - it hasn't, if anything it is renewed with G_dly vigour in a whole new Priestly Line! He writes in Ephesians about this new dynamic by adding in an extra dimension to the way we normally see things - in 3D. He brings in 4D - the 'length, breath, depth and height' to illustrate that if we proclaim that we 'know' G_d, there is now a new dimension - the old (A'aronic Priestly line) is now finished, the new has come (the Melchizedek Priestly line). I love it when I see Paul struggling to explain this new way from G_d.

This is, I think, what Paul discovered on the road to Damascus, but Paul, steeped in the A'aronic Priestly line could not get his head round it so easily. As a result, in Romans 7 he goes on at some length about trying to follow what Yeshua had said to him, and had told him to tell others, and realises in his thinking, just what it is all about and cries out that only Yeshua can save him. Why? because he kept trying to do what Yeshua had called him to do, but he kept having flashbacks to what Gamliel had taught him, and how he lived under the A'aronic Line for years - all this as well as trying to cope with the fact there were, no longer, any sacrifices in the Temple, so human sin that one knows about, now had to be confessed and repented of because, in the Melchizedek Priestly line, the once for all sacrifice had already been made by Yeshua - the High Priest - who had willingly laid down his life to offer salvation to all, so that any unknown or unrealised sin, would be covered by his sacrifice (that which we call 'grace'), as is written in Leviticus and Hebrews. For Paul this was a paradigm shift in everything he had ever experienced - now he had to use his G_d given gift of understanding and speaking in public, to unravel all that he taught hundreds or thousands, previously, and point them to this new Priestly line - the Line of Melchizedek into which Jews, Gentiles, slaves, free, Greeks, men and women, could all join and be truly G_d's sons and daughters, all with equal standing before the Throne of G_d.

This doesn't destroy Judaism - it offers a purer, Torah based Judaism, which is seen, in embryo, in Acts 15. The Church was never supposed to come into existence, because by its being, it denies the Melchizedek Priestly line. The line of Melchizedek will lead all true believers, from all nations, to the New Jerusalem, where G_d will reign over all, with Yeshua seated at his right hand, when the battle between the world, and G_d, is finally won by right, truth and justice.

At that time, every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Yeshua is Lord of all.

Suggested reading: The letters to the Hebrews, Galatians and Romans

 

[1John2:4]

That's a good theory, but if you're not grafted into Rabbinic Judaism, what Judaism are you grafted into? There is no other Judaism.

God's family - Israel
You too can be grafted in again and be a part of the new Covenant through Yeshua

 

[Steve Petersen]

I think that Paul was alluding to a darash in which Ruth and Na'amah were said to be grafted into Abraham, not Israel.

R. Eleazar further stated: What is meant by the text, And in thee shall the families of the earth be blessed? The Holy One, blessed be He, said to Abraham, 'I have two goodly shoots to engraft on you: Ruth the Moabitess and Naamah the Ammonitess'. (b. Yevamoth 63a)​

This has the advantage of negating the replacement theology issues mentioned earlier.

 

[Meowzltov]

I think that Paul was alluding to a darash in which Ruth and Na'amah were said to be grafted into Abraham, not Israel.

R. Eleazar further stated: What is meant by the text, And in thee shall the families of the earth be blessed? The Holy One, blessed be He, said to Abraham, 'I have two goodly shoots to engraft on you: Ruth the Moabitess and Naamah the Ammonitess'. (b. Yevamoth 63a)​

This has the advantage of negating the replacement theology issues mentioned earlier.

Your quote states emphatically that Ruth converted and was adopted into Israel. Just like I told you.

And then I also told you that this is not the case with the Hebrew Roots folks. They have never asked for it from Israel, nor ever received it.

 

[1John2:4]

Your quote states emphatically that Ruth converted and was adopted into Israel. Just like I told you.

And then I also told you that this is not the case with the Hebrew Roots folks. They have never asked for it from Israel, nor ever received it.

What did they did not ask for or receive?

 

[Meowzltov]

What did they did not ask for or receive?

The did not ask Israel if they could become the People of Israel. Nor did Israel accept them.

What they've done is the equivalent of entering a family's home without invitation, announced their cousins, raid the refrigerator, take over the TV remote, and go to sleep in various beds. All without asking if they could become members of the family.

 

[1John2:4]

The did not ask Israel if they could become the People of Israel. Nor did Israel accept them.

What they've done is the equivalent of entering a family's home without invitation, announced their cousins, raid the refrigerator, take over the TV remote, and go to sleep in various beds. All without asking if they could become members of the family.

I thought a person just accepted Yeshua and repents to become a part of the family of God. The couch, fridge and tv is God's and He invited in the Gentiles through His Son.