I'm curious...

[artybloke]

I have nothing against the scientists but I do not trust human (sinners) scientists

And yet you seem to trust the (lying) creationists who tell you to interpret the Bible in this (sinful) way..

 

[laptoppop]

And yet you seem to trust the (lying) creationists who tell you to interpret the Bible in this (sinful) way..

I am a creationist who would recommend that people interpret the Bible conservatively.

Are you calling me a liar?
Are you saying conservative scholars are recommending a sinful system?

 

[artybloke]

Are you calling me a liar?

No. But you've been lied to.

Are you saying conservative scholars are recommending a sinful system?

Yes. It involves telling lies about reality, it involves living a lie; and lying is sinful, last time I checked.

 

[laptoppop]

Perhaps you are using a flawed definition of lie. A lie involves a *deliberate* misstatement of fact where you know that it is wrong. Please tell me you aren't trying to say that all creationists and all conservative scholars are deliberately covering up the truth.

This level of invective helps nothing. We need to start with a measure of respect and understanding. I would say that the vast majority of TEs truly love the lord, and believe what they are writing. I would say that many TEs are using a wrong way of examining and interpreting Scripture -- but I would not say that it is a "sinful" system.

There are problems with the evolutionary model, just as there are problems with the YEC model. Some have been addresseed, others have not.

I have seen both YECs and TEs continue to use discussion points that I think are too weak or that I think have been disproven. I call them mistaken, not liars.

 

[Assyrian]

I am a creationist who would recommend that people interpret the Bible conservatively.

Are you calling me a liar?
Are you saying conservative scholars are recommending a sinful system?

I believe artyblokes was simply replying in kind to JimfromOhio's

I have nothing against the scientists but I do not trust human (sinners) scientists

 

[laptoppop]

There is a huge difference between noting that we are all mistake-prone sinners and calling someone a liar who promotes sinful techniques.

 

[Assyrian]

JimfromOhio only seem to recognise the sinfulness and agendas of the scientists. Unlike you he did not seem to recognise his own sinfulness or that of YEC preachers. He sees the limitation of scientists but is totally unaware that human limitations, sin and agendas can also cloud the YEC preachers ability to interpret scripture.

He presents a false dichotomy between sinful scientists and Holy Spirit inspired beleivers plugged straight into the Word of God.

 

[saraharms1]

What is your reason for thinking it does?

Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth;
Gen 1:2 and the earth being without form and empty, and darkness on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God moving gently on the face of the waters,
Gen 1:3 then God said, Let light be! And there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good, and God separated between the light and darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light, Day. And He called the darkness, Night. And there was evening, and there was morning the first day.
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be dividing between the waters and the waters.
Gen 1:7 And God made the expanse, and He separated between the waters which were under the expanse and the waters which were above the expanse. And it was so.
Gen 1:8 And God called the expanse, Heavens. And there was evening, and there was morning the second day.
Gen 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be collected to one place, and let the dry land appear. And it was so.
Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land, Earth. And He called the collection of the waters, Seas. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth sprout tender sprouts, the plant seeding seed, the fruit tree producing fruit according to its kind, whichever seed is in it on the earth. And it was so.
Gen 1:12 And the earth bore tender sprouts, the plant seeding seed according to its kind, and the fruit tree producing fruit according to its kind, whichever seed is in it. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:13 And there was evening, and there was morning the third day.
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens, to divide between the day and the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years.
Gen 1:15 And let them be for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens, to give light on the earth. And it was so.
Gen 1:16 And God made the two great luminaries: the great luminary to rule the day, and the small luminary and the stars to rule the night.
Gen 1:17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens, to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 and to rule over the day and over the night; and to divide between the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And there was evening, and there was morning the fourth day.
Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarmers having a soul of life; and let the birds fly over the earth, on the face of the expanse of the heavens.
Gen 1:21 And God created the great sea animals, and all that creeps, having a living soul, which swarmed the waters, according to its kind; and every bird with wing according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas; and let the birds multiply in the earth.
Gen 1:23 And there was evening, and there was morning the fifth day.
Gen 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the soul of life according to its kind: cattle, and creepers, and its beasts of the earth, according to its kind. And it was so.
Gen 1:25 And God made the beasts of the earth according to its kind, and cattle according to its kind, and all creepers of the ground according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:26 And God said, let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.
Gen 1:27 And God created the man in His own image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female.
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them; and God said to them, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the seas, and over birds of the heavens, and over all beasts creeping on the earth.
Gen 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every plant seeding seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree seeding seed; it shall be food for you.
Gen 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to all birds of the heavens, and to every creeper on the earth which has in it a living soul, every green plant is for food. And it was so.
Gen 1:31 And God saw everything that He had made and behold, it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning the sixth day.





All of Gensis 1... The earth was basically nothingness just water (Genisis 1:2). Then as it goes on God created the light and the land etc... (Genisis 1:3-18). Now if dinosaurs were on earth before humans it was no more than a day before he made Adam (Genisis 1:25)

 

[JimfromOhio]

JimfromOhio only seem to recognise the sinfulness and agendas of the scientists. Unlike you he did not seem to recognise his own sinfulness or that of YEC preachers. He sees the limitation of scientists but is totally unaware that human limitations, sin and agendas can also cloud the YEC preachers ability to interpret scripture.

He presents a false dichotomy between sinful scientists and Holy Spirit inspired beleivers plugged straight into the Word of God.

Spiritual truth is spiritually discerned. The Holy Spirit manifests Christ into our human spirit, not to our physical eyes (i.e. science). Its ability to discern. Discernment may be simply defined as the ability to biblically decide between right and wrong, between truth and error, between good and evil. Christians are responsible to exercise caution and discernment, especially in temporal and spiritual matters. Discernment is the means God uses to literally divide light from darkness, truth from falsehood, right motive from wrong motive, selflessness from selfishness.

Pros of using discernment:
To identify false prophets - Deuteronomy 18:21–22; Jeremiah 23:25-30
To identify the heart motives of others- Luke 6:8; John 2:24-25
To distinguish our heart motives - Job 38:36; Proverbs 21:2
To lead one in the ways of the Lord - Hosea 14:9
To empathize with weak and strong - Romans 14:1–8.
To distinguish right from wrong doctrine - 2 Peter 3:15–18
To identify false spirits / apostles - 1 John 4:1–6; Revelation 2:2

What would happen if a Christian do not use discernment?
Leads to a nations fall - Deuteronomy 32:28.
Leads to spiritual dullness - Matthew 12:1–8
Leads to misinterpretation - Mark 14:58
Leads to rejecting Jesus - Mark 15:29–30; 14:58
Leads to confusion - Luke 9:7–9.
Leads to foolishness - 1 Corinthians 3:18–20

 

[Assyrian]

Spiritual truth is spiritually discerned.

Yet even with spiritual truth there are deep disagreements between sincere and godly believers over important spiritual questions such as baptism, the gifts of the Spirit, Calvinism and Arminianism, church government. If spiritual questions are difficult to discern, do you think we are going to do better using spiritual discernment for a completely different job, trying to discern science? The church really doesn't have a good track record there. Calvin was convinced the bible taught geocentrism, that the sun goes around a fixed earth, and Luther even called Copernicus a fool.

Spiritual truth is spiritually discerned, but we should use science to discover scientific truth.

 

[gluadys]

[
All of Gensis 1... The earth was basically nothingness just water (Genisis 1:2). Then as it goes on God created the light and the land etc... (Genisis 1:3-18). Now if dinosaurs were on earth before humans it was no more than a day before he made Adam (Genisis 1:25)

In other words, your reason is that you have adopted a particular interpretation of Genesis 1 and you are unwilling to let it be modified by facts.

 

[saraharms1]

In other words, your reason is that you have adopted a particular interpretation of Genesis 1 and you are unwilling to let it be modified by facts.

No its not that I adopted it. A lot of this learning about God I'm doing on my own. I get this feeling when I've figured out a new truth about God and I've learned a lot. I came on here to ask the question about where dinosaurs fit in with the Bible not to start a debate or an argument. I KNOW for a fact that every living thing on this Earth is GOD'S creation. Not bacteria, not any other scientific thing but it was God. I know for a fact because the Bible doesn't lie and neither does God. I have a strong faith one that I do test by asking questions and by doing so I allow it to get stronger. I don't for a minute think that God did not create everything that was on our planet, or is, or what will be. Dinosaurs had to have been here some where. Scientist are just people who think that there has to be an answer to everything because they can't deal with an answer that is "wait" or "not just yet". Sometimes the answer isn't something that we as humans have the ability to find out. Sometimes we just have to wait.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I know for a fact because the Bible doesn't lie and neither does God.

I don't think the Bible lies, but is it possible that the humans who wrote it may have made some in good faith mistakes?

 

[gluadys]

No its not that I adopted it. A lot of this learning about God I'm doing on my own.

Never a good idea. Students need teachers and it is best to learn in groups where your ideas are challenged and sharpened by the ideas of others. As scripture says "Iron sharpens iron." Proverbs 27:17

I get this feeling when I've figured out a new truth about God and I've learned a lot.

That's good. A sense of accomplishment is a good feelign. But, feelings can be misleading. In themselves they do not guarantee the correctness of your reasoning. And since you are doing a lot of study on your own, you have to take account of the fact that there may be much you do not know that might change your conclusions.

I came on here to ask the question about where dinosaurs fit in with the Bible not to start a debate or an argument.

Simple. They don't. It is like asking where television fits in with the Bible. The Bible was never intended to be a universal encyclopedia for all ages. Lots of things past and present and future have no reference point in the Bible.

Anyone who tries to tell you dinosaurs are mentioned in the bible is speaking from a platform of ignorance. And, as I mentioned in another post, it's not just dinosaurs. What about trilobites and spriggina and ichthyostega and the thousands of other species that became extinct long, long before humanity ever appeared on earth. None of them are mentioned in the bible either, so why should we expect dinosaurs to be mentioned?

I KNOW for a fact that every living thing on this Earth is GOD'S creation.

Yes, we all agree on this point.

Not bacteria, not any other scientific thing but it was God.

Why not any scientific thing? Does God hate science? Does God never act in a way that can be studied by science?

Christians down through the ages have believed that God's creative work and sustaining of the world is the basis of science. We can rely on nature to act in predictable ways because God has promised that it will and God's promise is true. More than one Christian scientist has considered scientific investigation of nature to be a way of following in the footsteps of God's creative acts, a way of thinking God's thoughts after him and so coming to understand better the world God has given us.

I know for a fact because the Bible doesn't lie and neither does God.

Yes, we agree on that too. However, we can be mistaken about how to understand the bible. That is no flaw in the bible. It is part of human fallibility.

I have a strong faith one that I do test by asking questions and by doing so I allow it to get stronger.

That's fine. Please be open to questions you may not have thought of on your own.

I don't for a minute think that God did not create everything that was on our planet, or is, or what will be.

Again, we agree on this point.

Dinosaurs had to have been here some where.

Of course, dinosaurs had their part in the history of this planet. But because they had disappeared long before human history began, they are irrelevant to the message of the bible, which, after all, is concerned with humanity's relationship to God. Dinosaurs play no part in that.

Scientist are just people who think that there has to be an answer to everything because they can deal with an answer that is "wait" or "not just yet".

Well that is a false generalization about scientists and rather judgmental as well. Don't forget that many scientists are also Christians.

Also, the attitude of "wait" or "not just yet" applies to most assertions of literal creationism as well.

Sometimes the answer isn't something that we as humans have the ability to find out. Sometimes we just have to wait.

Maybe, but we won't know that unless we make an effort to find the answer, will we?

 

[Melethiel]

No its not that I adopted it. A lot of this learning about God I'm doing on my own.

Never a good idea. It is wise to learn from others, especially because they might come up with answers to questions you haven't even though of.

I get this feeling when I've figured out a new truth about God and I've learned a lot.

That's nice. But, feelings are rarely to be trusted. After all, "the heart is deceitful above all things."

I KNOW for a fact that every living thing on this Earth is GOD'S creation.

We all think so too.

Scientist are just people who think that there has to be an answer to everything because they can deal with an answer that is "wait" or "not just yet". Sometimes the answer isn't something that we as humans have the ability to find out. Sometimes we just have to wait.

You seem to be contradicting yourself here. First, you criticize scientists for accepting an answer that might be "not yet," and then you say that sometimes we all just have to wait.

 

[saraharms1]

Ahhh sorry... messed up while typing in my post... I've edited it tho! It was just a small simple mistake.