Ok then if that's the case, we should all be filled with spirit and loving our neighbour a piece of cake. If its not a piece of cake, then we don't have the grace given to us from being saved. ??good works should come out of the fact that one is saved.
Ok then if that's the case, we should all be filled with spirit and loving our neighbour a piece of cake. If its not a piece of cake, then we don't have the grace given to us from being saved. ??
But we Catholics aren't one united bunch here either.
The main divide I see on CF is Conservative versus Liberal, whether it be Catholic or Prot.. Politics is bigger than religion in seems.
As long as one doesn't think 'good works' in themselves saves one - good works should come out of the fact that one is saved...from what God puts into you (not sure I've put that very well I'm afraid)
How many good works must one do before they know are saved?
Best not to engage when he gets grumpy like this.Not sure whether you're having me on with this question, but
:=)
It's good enough to tell any and all anywhere that say they are 'Christian' that you are too, because you believe this way --
I believe in God, the Father almighty,
creator of heaven and earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,
who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried;
he descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again;
he ascended into heaven,
he is seated at the right hand of the Father,
and he will come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting. Amen.
If you lived next door, you'd likely get to know me, and find we are having almost every belief the same. (Even though I don't think of myself as 'Lutheran', but simply as Christian, only, it was interesting to recently learn that Lutherans (the church we're attending in the last few years) and Catholics have completely agreed now on Justification, which was the big one, in my view. And that's one of 32 agree doctrines so far, including some striking agreements in those 32. The simple fact is we are about 98% the same, and identical in every salvific question so far as I know. I have a close Catholic friend who is very highly educated in history and theology and we talk for hours at a time.)
Not sure whether you're having me on with this question, but if not, then I would say 'none'. All I was saying was that 'good works' tend to come more naturally to someone once they're 'saved'. I'm not saying that ';unsaved ' people don't perform 'good works'...it's a question of changing heart attitudes I suppose. And I think 'works' can be anything, just little tiny things. For example, when I became a believer I suddenly became a lot more aware of other people around me and their needs, so I was much more open to just giving people a hand even with small stuff.
I have Lutheran neighbors. When we moved into our new home 14 years ago the Mrs. came over to excitedly invite me to an Alpha program that her church was offering. Alpha, she explained, was a way to introduce people to Christianity. I thanked her for the invite, but told her I was already a Christian and, coincidentally had just been confirmed Catholic.
"You don't need to confess to a priest", she said.
I bring this up as an example because so many times I feel like what is presented as a simple sharing of one's beliefs is actually a veiled attempt to undercut the Catholic faith.
I looked into the Alpha program and one has to pay for it to know what it entails. My Catholic friends tell me that it isn't necessarily friendly to Catholicism, that it taught against the authority of the Church the seven sacraments, etc. etc.
It's nice to hear about the unity of Lutheran/Catholic beliefs. As I understand it the LCMS has rejected the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, at least the last I thing read they had some very strong negative reactions to it. My complaint is that it's exhausting distinguishing the nuances between the ELCA the LCMS and the rest of the alphabet soup. The tradition of protestantism promotes individualism to such an extent that in order to under stand protestants, the Catholic has consider each one on a personal basis.
In other words, we're going to have to pick you off one by one.
Thanks for being a mensch. If you were my neighbor, it would be great to get to know you.
Wow, that is bad that happened to you. I'm so sorry.
All I could say is don't judge churches by the actions of a few individuals. I don't know anyone in our own church that I think would do something like that, and I've gotten to know a lot of members very well, in cookouts and bible studies and most every Sunday in conversations with diverse members after services.
Yes, it's ultimately only a kind of surface detail whether some people that want to count doctrines are agreeing. Could they ever? We all know that there isn't a uniform point of view in any church, and the larger, the more diverse the viewpoints.
Francis was just addressing this reality very recently. And more than in one way. I found his statements encouraging, because yes, there will always be highly diverse viewpoints.
If not for the Catholic Church, I'm afraid I'd leave this Christianity thing all together.
Stay put , Tad .
Remember that the Second Council of the Vatican , the 21st Ecumenical Council , affirmed that the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church .
As Pope Paul VI stated in his encyclical Ecclesiam Suam " The Church was founded by Jesus Christ to be the loving mother of the whole human family and minister to its salvation..... God's house, the one, holy, Catholic, and apostolic Church of which the Roman Church is "mother and head." "
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