I'm afraid...

[Caty]

thanks guys. so if i want to be with God and want to be saved then thats a GOOD sign, see im afraid its like kinda 'dangling meat infront of a starving dog'...you get me?

 

[JohnnieGuy]

Caty,

You couldn't even WANT to be saved unless the Holy Spirit was with you or prompting you to be saved, so you obviously have not blasphemed the Spirit.

No one can WANT to have Christ without Christ first wanting them.

 

[gratefulgrace]

thanks guys. so if i want to be with God and want to be saved then thats a GOOD sign, see im afraid its like kinda 'dangling meat infront of a starving dog'...you get me?

No Caty that desire is God given and God would not offer something to you that He cannot give. Please be encouraged. I am still praying for you that your heart will be full of assurance of God's love and forgiveness at all times for YOU> Caty gg

 

[gracealone]

Hi Caty,
It's not a "sign" it's the truth about who you really are and what you really desire. God knows this and He "will in no wise cast you out". Whoever is thirsty, let them come , whoever wishes, let them come and take from the water of life freely." OCD tricks us by using severe anxiety as a measuring stick of what might or might not be true. When that anxiety is present we assume that the fear or doubt might actually be true but our will, reason, true desires and rational mind are the things we must choose to employ against the onslaught of anxiety. And it is a vicious onslaught. We have to get to the point where we are sick of fighting the doubts because every time we engage with or entertain the questions it only leads to yet another door of doubt and misery. We also have to be willing to endure quite a lot of mental anguish when we let go of the questions as our brain will throw an all out temper tantrum in order to try and get us into the rumination cycle again. But the best way to handle a tantrum is to ignore it. This is not easy and any one who has been severely afflicted by this disorder will experience distress during this process. And it is a process, most times a very long one. It's very hard but God will give you the strength to get through it.
He is able.
Mitzi

thanks guys. so if i want to be with God and want to be saved then thats a GOOD sign, see im afraid its like kinda 'dangling meat infront of a starving dog'...you get me?

 

[keryakos]

What if we really just want to be saved from hell but truely dont want God .. is the desire to be saved still of God ? Im not casting doubt its a serious question ...

 

[127.0.0.1]

What if we really just want to be saved from hell but truely dont want God .. is the desire to be saved still of God ? Im not casting doubt its a serious question ...

If you believe in the Resurrection, then you believe that Hades is no more. God wouldn't overcome evil and the tortures of the Devil, only to replace them with tortures of His own. Thank God for God.

 

[RobertZ]

If you believe in the Resurrection, then you believe that Hades is no more. God wouldn't overcome evil and the tortures of the Devil, only to replace them with tortures of His own. Thank God for God.

So are you saying that you believe that Hell no longer exist?

 

[127.0.0.1]

So are you saying that you believe that Hell no longer exist?

Hell is not what you think it is. Hell is not a place where the Devil reigns or where God takes out his vengeance on sinners. I'll say no more, if you want to know more about Hell you'll have to make use of the email in my sig bar.

 

[RobertZ]

Hell is not what you think it is. Hell is not a place where the Devil reigns or where God takes out his vengeance on sinners. I'll say no more, if you want to know more about Hell you'll have to make use of the email in my sig bar.

I will take Gods word for what Hell is and isnt and according to the Bible it certainly is a place that a sinner needs to fear ending up. The problem with todays society is that so many people are trying to downplay Hell and decieve people into thinking that its a place not to be feared.

 

[127.0.0.1]

I will take Gods word for what Hell is and isnt and according to the Bible it certainly is a place that a sinner needs to fear ending up. The problem with todays society is that so many people are trying to downplay Hell and decieve people into thinking that its a place not to be feared.

Saying that God tortures those who do not obey Him and gives them over to the Devil...etc. is, just as destructive. Read this for a better understanding, The River of Fire.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica] Westerners speak frequently of the "Good God" (E.g., in France le bon dieu is almost always used when speaking of God.). Western Europe and America, however, were never convinced that such a Good God existed. On the contrary, they were calling God good in the way Greeks called the curse and malediction of smallpox,[/FONT]EULOGIA[FONT=Arial,Helvetica], that is, a blessing, a benediction, in order to exorcise it and charm it away. For the same reason, the Black Sea was called[/FONT]Eu xeinoV PontoV [FONT=Arial,Helvetica]— the hospitable sea — although it was, in fact, a dreadful and treacherous sea. Deep inside the Western soul, God was felt to be the wicked Judge, Who never forgot even the smallest offense done to Him in our transgressions of His laws.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica] This juridical conception of God, this completely distorted interpretation of God's justice, was nothing else than the projection of human passions on theology. It was a return to the pagan process of humanizing God and deifying man. Men are vexed and angered when not taken seriously and consider it a humiliation which only vengeance can remove, whether it is by crime or by duel. This was the worldly, passionate conception of justice prevailing in the minds of a so-called "Christian" society.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]...[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica] This paganistic conception of God's justice which demands infinite sacrifices in order to be appeased clearly makes God our real enemy and the cause of all our misfortunes.[/FONT]

 

[RobertZ]

Saying that God tortures those who do not obey Him and gives them over to the Devil...etc. is, just as destructive. Read this for a better understanding, The River of Fire.

Let me ask you something......do you believe that the word of God is true? Yes or no, please dont beat around the bush with this simple question.

 

[gratefulgrace]

Commando and robertz please do not derail Caty's thread with your own agenda's. I believe we are here to minister to her need and not raise needless side debates. Peace. gg

 

[JusSumguy]

I want to come to Jesus, but I fear I've committed the unforgivable sin? Can anyone help me with this?

Girl, you got nothing to worry about. If that were the case, you'll have a whole buncha wait time. Cuz it's gonna take him a couple of eternities before he's through with my judgment.

Chill. Go back to God, ask Jesus to protect you, and that pain will go right away. Fear is just a parlor trick.


-

 

[gratefulgrace]

She already worries incessantly and needlessly because of her OCD all this does is provide more worry fodder.

Col 3:12Therefore, as [the] elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;

Col 3:13bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also [must do].

Col 3:14But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.

Col 3:15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.

Gratefulgrace

 

[127.0.0.1]

Let me ask you something......do you believe that the word of God is true? Yes or no, please dont beat around the bush with this simple question.

Christ alone is the Word of God (John 1:1). The Bible is more like the Word of God second hand, since the Apostles are not equal to Christ.

Christ loves every part of His creation and doesn't will Himself to be separated from any of it. The idea of an "unforgivable sin" goes against this. How could God, who is Love, stand to be separated from anything He made.

 

[RobertZ]

Christ alone is the Word of God (John 1:1). The Bible is more like the Word of God second hand, since the Apostles are not equal to Christ.

Christ loves every part of His creation and doesn't will Himself to be separated from any of it. The idea of an "unforgivable sin" goes against this. How could God, who is Love, stand to be separated from anything He made.

So your a Universalist. On that thought im not debating anything else with you.

 

[127.0.0.1]

So your a Universalist. On that thought im not debating anything else with you.

No I'm not a Universalist, I'm E. Orthodox look at my faith icon, there is a Hell and it is eternal, but...well, you didn't read that article I provided did you? And of course...there's the email in my sig...

We'll all be with God in the end. But God isn't going to force you to Love Him. And if you choose not to work on your own Theosis, then God's Love will burn you for all eternity. It's God, Loving you, and you burning in your own shame for having not lived a life of repentance, thus Hell is everlasting repentance. Thus we believe in a River of Fire and the righteous shall rejoice and the unrighteous (those who hate God, hate God's creation, were ruled by unclean passion...etc.) shall burn forever. It is not...however, a place where the Devil has free reign as so many think. And again, it is not God torturing you either, God doesn't torture that which He loves.

Bottom line, Heaven and Hell are states of being, not places, we'll all be in the same place; with God. And most importantly, we put ourselves in those states of being, God loves us all infinitely. It is important to understand that God is not angry with us, He never is, but it is our anger against Him and/or His creation that will put us in Hell.

PS
If you believe that God is present everywhere except Hell, then, by definition you do not believe that God is omnipresent.

PPS
gratefulgrace is right, we shouldn't derail this thread, I'm sorry.

 

[RobertZ]

We'll all be with God in the end.

No everyone will not be with God in the end. Hell is eternal seperation from the presence of God.

Matt. 3:12; Luke 3:17 - John the Baptist said the Lord will burn the chaff with unquenchable fire. This unquenchable fire is the state of eternal separation from God, which the Church has called "hell" for 2,000 years. Some Protestant communities no longer acknowledge the reality of hell.

Matt. 25:41 - Jesus says, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Matt. 25:46 - Jesus says, "they will go away into eternal punishment" which is in reference to this eternal fire.
Mark 9:47-48 - Jesus refers to hell as where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. It lasts forever.
2 Thess. 1:6-9 - the angels will come with flaming fire and the disobedient will suffer punishment of eternal destruction. It is important to note that "destruction" does not mean "annihilation," as some Protestant denominations teach. It means eternal exclusion from the presence of God.
Jude 6-7 - the rebelling angels, and Sodom and Gomorrah, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Rev. 14:11 - the worshipers of the beast suffer and the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever.
Rev. 20:10 - they're tormented in the lake of fire and brimstone day and night forever and ever.
Isaiah 33:14 - "Who of us can dwell in the everlasting fire?" This is a reference to hell which is forever.
Isaiah 66:24 - their worm shall not die and their fire shall not be quenched. We cannot fathom the pain of this eternal separation from God.
Jer. 15:14 - in my anger a fire is kindled which shall burn forever. Hell is the proper compliment to the eternal bliss of heaven. Judith 16:17 - in the day of judgment the Lord will take vengeance on the wicked and they shall weep in pain forever. Hell is a place that sinners have prepared for themselves by rejecting God, who desires all people to be saved in His Son Jesus Christ. God sends no one to hell.

 

[JusSumguy]

So your a Universalist. On that thought im not debating anything else with you.

No I'm not a Universalist,

Sigh

And I'm an Italian....... And I have cooties.

Same God, same love, same forgiveness, same tolerance, same eternity, same Heaven....

Just different paths. Please don't judge. It's a thing that we all do poorly.


-

 

[Caty]

that's GG, I'm a little worried because I only have a small desire. I'm a little scared about getting 'back in the swing of things' with God. But what about what keryakos said, 'what if it's a fear of Hell.' cause I know I DEFINATLY fear Hell.