I'm a Christian but not baptized

western kentucky · Oct 9, 2003

set free in Christ said:
I found your comment Why is baptism so urgent? interesting and decided tonight to do a little study in your ..1) Saves us (1 Peter 3:21). I was wondering how baptims saved.... I found this...

1 Pet. 3:20 clearly points out that "eight souls were saved through water." (NKJV) That is what the verse says. It does not say that eight souls were saved by the ark. Rather, the eight souls were saved by water!

The "like figure" (KJV), or "antitype (NKJV), refers to the water that saved those on the ark. (A "like figure" or "antitype" is a copy, shadow, symbol i.e. Heb. 10:1 of the real image or focus that would come later.) The "like figure" or "antitype" is identified as baptism in vs. 21.

Baptism saves us (vs. 21). This agrees with Mk. 16:16, Acts 2:38, and Acts 22:16.

How does baptism save? By washing the filth of the flesh (by taking a bath and washing the dirt from the body)? No. It is the answer of a good (or clear) conscience toward God - - it takes away the guilt of sin. This agrees with Mk. 16:16, Acts 2:38, and Acts 22:16. Baptism is commanded - - in order to be saved (Mk. 16:16), for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), and to wash away sins (Acts 22:16).

The scriptures of 1 Pet. 3:20-21 are clear in their teaching and harmonize (agree) with other verses of scripture, just as God designed them to do (2 Tim. 3:16-17).

Florida College · Oct 13, 2003

GirlForChrist said:
and i was told i'd go to hell if i dont get baptized.........i want to get baptized but the problem is that i have not gone to a church reguarly in a long time...and i would like to wait till i can find a church that i can attend on a regular basis i.e every sunday. my mom is not a christian and i go to a residental school (where i have to go to on sundays) and so i find it hard to get to church.......but i'll be moving out of my moms house in november so i intend on find a church to go to

GirlForChrist,

The first part of your thread reads, "I'm a Christian but not baptized."

You have presented several problem areas in your post. First of all, the previous statement in quotations should be carefully considered. Can one truly be a Christian under the law of Christ and not be baptized? Consider:

To claim to be a Christian before baptism is to claim to be a Christian before one is saved (Mk. 16:16).

To claim to be a Christian before baptism is to claim to be Christian before one has their sins washed away (Acts 22:16).

To claim to be a Christian before baptism, is to claim to be a Christian before being "in Christ" (Gal. 3:26-27), where all spiritual blessings are (Eph. 1:3) - - including redemption through his blood (Eph. 1:7).

To claim to be Christian before baptism, is to claim to be a Christian before being born again (John 3:3-5 ; Rom. 6:3-11).

Are you open to discuss this?

FC

Florida College · Oct 13, 2003

ChurchBoy said:
GirlForChrist,

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation. Who told you that?

ChurchBoy,

The Lord Jesus said that baptism was a requirement for salvation (Mk.16:16).

The apostle Peter said that baptism was a requirement for salvation (Acts 2:38).

The apostle Paul quoted Ananias, who said that baptism was a requirement for salvation (Acts 22:16).

FC

SmileAndAHandshake · Oct 13, 2003

[old, deleted]

nfceagle6 · Oct 13, 2003

it makes me sadd to think someone told you that if they themselves honestly believe it.The Bible does not say we have to get baptised to go to heaven.It is only a profession of your faith.Christ did it to set an example for us.think of the thief on the cross.he did not get baptised but christ did say that he would be w/ him in paradise.I did get baptised after I was saved but not b/c i thought it was required.i did it b/c i knew it was something God wanted me to do to proclaim my being a believer.
i hope you find a church that suits you and you can groww in.the Lord loves you! -abby

katylees · Oct 13, 2003

i havent been baptized yet either, just thought id add that in hehe, im going to be sumtime though, wen i get round to telling sum1 - katy

Kookaburra_45 · Oct 13, 2003

I think you shouldn't not want to get baptized. All it is is a bit of water, a cross on your head and then its over with. My mom and I have been talking about getting me baptized. The reason I wasn't when I was a baby was because whenever I touched water or water touched me, I would freak out... Who knows.. But anyways, I think once you get to your dads house, go to church for a while and then talk about getting baptized to your father.

I hoped that helps.

I will pray for you. (alot!)

western kentucky · Oct 13, 2003

ametropia said:
As for citing Mark 16:
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. "

It says whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but it does NOT say whoever believes and is NOT baptized will NOT be saved! It simply says that whoever does not believe will be condemned!

Faith is an absolute necessity (Rom. 10:17)! Correct? So when one decides to believe in Christ, then he will act on his faith to obey all of God's commands. If one does not place faith in Christ, is he going to obey God's commands? The answer is obvious!

belief + obedience = saved

disbelief = condemned

ametropia said:
And both of the other citations you make show no support of No Baptism = No salvation

Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16;

No support of the necessity of baptism? How do you draw that conclusion?

ametropia said:
Now, on to our basic bible here people:

John 3:16; John 3:18; John 3:36; John 11:25

I have accepted our Lord Jesus Christ into my heart. My sins are forgiven through Him, and I have accepted his promise of eternal life, Praise the Lord! But I am not baptised yet!

However... No one can tell me I am any less of a Christian for not having been baptised. I'm sorry but that strikes me as ignorant. Christ is more than water over your head. It is Faith in Him as the Son of God, He who died for us on that cross, for our sins! It is finding the way to God through Him, our Lord, Jesus Christ. It is walking in His Word of love, and kindness, and compassion, for our fellow man! It is so many things... so very many things.

Salvation is not restricted to those who have been baptised, in my own opinion I guess I should add. That is in my mind a very narrow view of salvation.

God bless you all God loves you, and so do I

The bible verses you have added are good verses! They stress the importance of "faith." However, not one of these passages state that "faith alone" will save you. Your faith will save you when it leads you to obey all of God's commands (Hebrews 11).

Consider these verses:

John 12:42: Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in him, but b/c of the Pharisees they were not confessing him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue. In John 12:42, it plainly states that the rulers had faith. Did their faith alone save them? John 12:43: For they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God. Why did they love the approval of men rather than the approval of God? They had faith?

James 2:19: You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. The demons have "faith." Does their "faith alone" save them?

The point of our discussion is not to speak our own opinions. It's not about what "I" think, or what "you" think! The point is to "speak as the oracles of God", and to let God's word be our guide (1 Peter 4:11).

SmileAndAHandshake · Oct 13, 2003

[old, deleted]

SmileAndAHandshake · Oct 13, 2003

[old, deleted]

Florida College · Oct 13, 2003

ametropia said:
By the way, you missed the most important part of my post:

"No one can tell me I am any less of a Christian for not having been baptised"

Ametropia,

Would you listen to God's word? What did God tell the Jews to do (through the apostle Peter) that were convicted of crucifying the Christ in Acts 2:38 (note vs. 41)? What did those do that believed Philip's preaching (Acts 8:12)? What did the eunuch do after hearing Philip preach "Jesus" (Acts 8:35-39)? What was Cornelius and his household commanded to do in Acts 10:47-48? What was Saul told to do in Acts 22:16?

After reading these verses, the real question is not if anyone can tell you that you are any less of a Christian for not being baptized, but if you can demonstrate from the scriptures that you can be a Christian without being baptized. That has not been established yet.

FC

Florida College · Oct 13, 2003

ametropia said:
As for citing Mark 16:
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. "

It says whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but it does NOT say whoever believes and is NOT baptized will NOT be saved! It simply says that whoever does not believe will be condemned!

The first part of Mk 16:16 says, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved," or belief + baptism = salvation. Note: The word "and" is a coordinating conjunction connecting two equal parts. The second part of Mk 16: 16 says, "But whoever does not believe will be condemned." What does this mean? It simply means what Jesus said it means - - belief + baptism = salvation : no belief + baptism does not equal salvation. Faith is necessary to please God (Heb. 11:6). Faith is involved in baptism (Col. 2:12). Faith is required before one can be baptized (Acts 8:35-39), which harmonizes or agrees with Mk. 16:16.

ametropia said:
And both of the other citations you make show no support of No Baptism = No salvation

Acts 2:38 - - repentance + baptism = remission of sins
Acts 22:16 - - arise + be baptized = wash away sins

I am not sure exactly what your point is about these verses. Do you think that you can claim salvation without having your sins taken away?

ametropia said:
Now, on to our basic bible here people:

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[ 3:16 Or his only begotten Son] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

It does NOT say "whoever believes in Him *and* gets baptised in His name shall not perish but have eternal life"

Does John 3:16 say "faith only" or "faith alone?" No, it doesn't. So, how do you determine that the word "only" or "alone" belongs there? Consider what the eunuch's faith prompted him to do in Acts 8:35-39.

ametropia said:
John 3:18
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son"

This is a very simple distinction. Who ever believes is not condemned. Who ever does not stands condemned. There are no conditions, there are no if's, and's or but's...

The distinction is not quite as simple as you make it seem. Faith prompts one to not just say, "Lord, Lord," but to do the Father's will (Matt. 7:21-23). James 2:14-26 is frequently overlooked by many who profess salvation by faith alone (not vs. 24 - - "not by faith alone."

Please consider Heb. 5:9. " . . . He became the author of eternal salvation to all who _______ Him." (I'll let you fill in the blank.)

ametropia said:
John 3:36
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."

John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies;

I have accepted our Lord Jesus Christ into my heart. My sins are forgiven through Him, and I have accepted his promise of eternal life, Praise the Lord! But I am not baptised yet!

However... No one can tell me I am any less of a Christian for not having been baptised. I'm sorry but that strikes me as ignorant.

It really doesn't matter what you and I think (Rom. 3:4).

ametropia said:
Christ is more than water over your head. It is Faith in Him as the Son of God, He who died for us on that cross, for our sins! It is finding the way to God through Him, our Lord, Jesus Christ. It is walking in His Word of love, and kindness, and compassion, for our fellow man! It is so many things... so very many things.

I agree - - "Christ is more than water over your head." But are you suggesting that what is accomplished in baptism is not important (Rom. 6:3-11 ; Col. 2:12)?

Salvation is not restricted to those who have been baptised, in my own opinion I guess I should add. That is in my mind a very narrow view of salvation.

God bless you all God loves you, and so do I [/QUOTE]

Ametropia,

If salvation truly comes by faith alone, then why would we not have to obey the Lord's commands in Lk. 13:3,5 ; Matt. 10: 32-33 ; & Mk. 16:16? What kind of faith is it that prompts one to not obey all the Lord commands?

FC

Florida College · Oct 13, 2003

ametropia said:
And, well I don't feel a need to argue about it any longer. My initial impulse was to write up a hugely long post in contradiction to the one you just made, and I was half way through it, when I realized: hey, as long as I know the Truth, and as long as what I do is a-ok between me and God (and I've already been here in my personal relationship with Him), then man can argue amongst themselves all they want... it doesn't have any impact on me and my knowledge of God's plan for *me*

So I felt better and trashed the post, heh.

Ametropia,

Are you familiar with the striking contrast between the Bereans and those in Thessalonica (Acts 17:10-11)?

FC

western kentucky · Oct 13, 2003

ametropia said:
GirlforChrist: My best advice to you is to disregard anything anyone here (including myself) has to say, and turn to God for the answers. That's what I did, and that's how I came to know what He wants of me. And what He wants of you is all that matters... He'll guide you on your path, as always.

GirlforChrist,

My best advice for you is to open up your bible and study....

You may open up your bible and turn John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

After reading this passage, we can determine that we must have "faith" in Christ. But wait...what is faith? Is it just acceptance that Jesus Christ is our personal Saviour and no action involved with it. Here's the big key -- harmonize the scriptures. All scripture must agree (1 Tim. 3:16-17). So is a passage like John 3:16 just speaking of "faith only?"

Consider Hebrews 11: This passage teaches us that faith saves us when it leads us to obey God's commands:

For example: verse 30 - "By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days." When did the walls of Jericho fall down? The walls fell down after the Israelites had acted on their faith and followed God's commands.

Also consider James 2:14-26: verse 17 - "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

In the New Testament, we are commanded to:

Believe (Romans 10:17);
Repent (Acts 2:38);
Confess (Acts 8:37);
Be baptized (Acts 10:48);
Live faithfully (Col. 1:22-23);

Why not let your faith lead you to obey all of that God has commanded of us?

Florida College · Oct 13, 2003

nfceagle6 said:
it makes me sadd to think someone told you that if they themselves honestly believe it.The Bible does not say we have to get baptised to go to heaven.It is only a profession of your faith.

Where exactly does the bible say baptism is only a profession of one's faith?

nfceagle6 said:
Christ did it to set an example for us.

Jesus was baptized by John "to fulfill all righteousness" (Matt. 3:15). John's baptism was for repentance (Matt. 3:2,8,11). But Jesus had no sins to repent of (Heb. 4:15).

nfceagle6 said:
think of the thief on the cross.he did not get baptised but christ did say that he would be w/ him in paradise.

Consider Heb. 9:14-17 to determine when Jesus' testament (or will) went into effect. The thief on the cross lived under the O.T. law of Moses. Baptism into Christ was not a requirement under the law of Moses. It is under the law of Christ (Acts 8:35-39).

nfceagle6 said:
I did get baptised after I was saved but not b/c i thought it was required.

Jesus said, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mk. 16:16). Was the Lord mistaken?

i did it b/c i knew it was something God wanted me to do to proclaim my being a believer.
i hope you find a church that suits you and you can groww in.the Lord loves you! -abby[/QUOTE]

theseed · Jan 1, 2004

Western Kentucky said:
The "like figure" (KJV), or "antitype (NKJV), refers to the water that saved those on the ark. (A "like figure" or "antitype" is a copy, shadow, symbol i.e. Heb. 10:1 of the real image or focus that would come later.) The "like figure" or "antitype" is identified as baptism in vs. 21.

So Baptism is a symbol of salvation?

theseed · Jan 1, 2004

Western Kentucky said:
"In James 2:19, even the demons believed and trembled! Did their faith alone save them?"

Jesus did not come to save demons, but people. So, premise is not valid.

theseed · Jan 1, 2004

Florida College said:
To claim to be Christian before baptism, is to claim to be a Christian before being born again (John 3:3-5 ; Rom. 6:3-11).

John 3.3-5 is talking about water of a natural birth, as when a woman's water "breaks", this is clear from Nicodemus statement about going back into the womb a second time.

In Rom. 6, it talks about being baptized into Christ Jesus, not water. You see, baptism is a symbol of what really happens spiritually. This is thorougly explained by Set Free in Christ, as in the greek context (1 Peter 3.20), water is a symbol, an antitype, or counter part. Just like the old testiment sacrifices were an antitype to Jesus Christ.

So, don't be discourged, GirlForChrist, for you have already been baptized into Christ, you were baptized into his Death, and you will live forever through his ressurection.

theseed · Jan 1, 2004

western kentucky said:
GirlforChrist,

My best advice for you is to open up your bible and study....

You may open up your bible and turn John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

After reading this passage, we can determine that we must have "faith" in Christ. But wait...what is faith? Is it just acceptance that Jesus Christ is our personal Saviour and no action involved with it. Here's the big key -- harmonize the scriptures. All scripture must agree (1 Tim. 3:16-17). So is a passage like John 3:16 just speaking of "faith only?"

Consider Hebrews 11: This passage teaches us that faith saves us when it leads us to obey God's commands:

For example: verse 30 - "By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days." When did the walls of Jericho fall down? The walls fell down after the Israelites had acted on their faith and followed God's commands.

Also consider James 2:14-26: verse 17 - "Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

In the New Testament, we are commanded to:

Believe (Romans 10:17);
Repent (Acts 2:38);
Confess (Acts 8:37);
Be baptized (Acts 10:48);
Live faithfully (Col. 1:22-23);

Why not let your faith lead you to obey all of that God has commanded of us?

Eph. 2.8-10 says that we are saved by grace, through faith, made into good works.

You are saying that faith does not always lead to obediance. But, the epistle James says that works are the result of faith, as if they are the 2 sides of the same coin.

You can interpet scripture to all agree the same, the same as you believe.

If baptism is required for salvation, then that means that Christ sacrifice on the Cross was not sufficient to save us"

Look at Rom. 8.1-3, it says the the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ saves us from the law of sin and death-- no exception. "Therefore there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

theseed · Jan 1, 2004

Ametropia said:
but I *am* saying that situations for individual people vary

But not in the matter of Baptism, this as the ring of "truth is relative" which is contrary to what Jesus Claimed. John 14.6

I'm a Christian but not baptized

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