Illegal worship ban in California ended by Supreme Court

[Albion]

The use of exaggeration to express the doom and gloom of “in fact, no freedom of religion.” These pandemic restrictions are not resulting in a “no freedom of religion” in the U.S. Rather, the restrictions result in a narrow, specific loss of “freedom of religion.”

So we have established that they impair the exercise of a Constitutional right.

Now move onto the fact that the decrees against the churches are arbitrary, inconsistent with the proclamations dealing with similar institutions and gatherings, and unnecessary (the particular regulations, that is, not the general concept of something being good for society, etc. etc.).

 

[Rene Loup]

Where I live, religious services are still taking place under government-sanctioned limits. It is currently at a certain capacity and because of this, essential church services need to be done at least twice on Sunday. Church door greeters are advised to wear masks, gloves, and offer hand sanitizer to anyone in need. Masks are REQUIRED for both guests and the church staff. Anyone violating these rules MUST LEAVE THE CHURCH GROUNDS or the church itself suffers government penalties. Results may vary. (1 Peter 2:11-25, 2 Peter 2, Romans 13:1-10)

Pray to God for discernment, wisdom, humility, and effective communication for all of this. We NEED to think LONG GAME, and NEVER allow ourselves getting to the point of legalism, let alone for short term gain.

Render what is Caesar's unto Caesar and what is God's unto God's (Luke 20:20-26, Mark 12:13-17, Matthew 22:15-22). If you feel under compulsion to attend Church in spite of COVID-19, remember that GOD DESIRES MERCY, NOT SACRIFICE!!! (Hosea 6:6, Luke 14:1-14, Mark 2:23-3:6, Matthew 9:9-13, 12:1-14)

On May 1, 2021, at roughly 12:40 AM Eastern Time, I have added Scripture to these disclaimers, and am planning to continue doing so (John 13:1-17, Luke 16:1-15, Matthew 7:13-29). My apologies, I am still learning because I am a flawed human being who is predisposed towards selfishness.

On February 6, 2021, at roughly 3:55 PM Eastern Time, I have added Scripture to the first paragraph. My apologies, I am still learning because I am a flawed human being who is predisposed towards selfishness.

 

[PloverWing]

It is painful to me to see Christian churches pushing for the right to endanger other people's health. I would much rather the Christian churches be known for going the extra mile to protect our neighbors' health, rather than being known for fighting public health laws.

Yes, there is sacrifice, serious sacrifice, in not being able to receive the Eucharist for extended periods (or having to huddle with parkas and lawn chairs for outdoor services in January). But we are called to love our neighbors even when that is hard.

 

[RickardoHolmes]

I was able to find sermons and church service videos online for free. My freedom of religion was not denied. I would not want to attend such an unforgiving church as to sue a government interested in the welfare of its seniors anyway.

I find all that I need online. I was very disappointed that we could not go out and attend the Christmas Eve but it was not worth becoming Ill.

Last year, when all the churches in the are started using facebook and YouTube and stopped holding in person services, I was able to connect online with a congregation which I did not know even existed, and probably never would have found or visited otherwise. For that , I am thankful. I have met the pastor, conversed with him and am impressed by his sermons, his messages and the works of his congregation in the community.
Of course, I do not do "Memberships" but have been welcome online and invited to participate when the restrictions are lifted.

My Faith does not require attendance at services, risking my health for any such thing, or even watching or not watching videos. And no, my freedom of religion has not been impacted in the least.

 

[Religiot]

Supreme Court ruling in California case allows indoor religious services to resume -- with some limits

Unfortunately, the state is still allowed to restrict capacity to 25% and ban singing, but three justices opposed even that, which is a good sign that as infection numbers get under control, the freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment will no longer be compromised (what would Patrick Henry say about these restrictions?).

I now intend to sue the state of California for violating my rights, by preventing me from visiting churches in California I greatly love when I travel to the Golden State.

Yes, please, sue them! --They only reverence money!

I saw a video on youtube, announcing that a series of lawsuits have commenced in Germany against the so-called "fact-checkers": lawyers and doctors have teamed up to cause for the allegations of the "fact-checkers" against doctors, to be proved by the discovery process.

They get to say whatever they want to say on twitter and the mainstream networks, without having to prove any of it, but in court, them's not the rules, lol.

God willing, these brave doctors, that are willing to come forward, will have success against the encroaching state.

Times are looking dark, and the state is growing evermore autonomous.

PS: It's getting harder and harder to find any reporting that contradicts the popular narrative--most videos are immediately deleted, especially videos by actual doctors. --scary.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Other people may want to sue churches for spreading the virus intentionally. I read a testimony about a Canadian couple visiting Florida for the winter like they usually do. They flew to Florida and went to their 55+ trailer park. They forgot to buy health insurance. The Canadian universal health system does not cover out of country medical expense. They purchased out of country insurance after they got to Florida and soon had COVID. The husband was in the hospital for two weeks, then he was taken by air ambulance to Canada. The insurance company argued they purchased health insurance after they were infected, thus the insurance company would not cover them. The bills were estimated at $300,000 USD.

I was able to find sermons and church service videos online for free. My freedom of religion was not denied. I would not want to attend such an unforgiving church as to sue a government interested in the welfare of its seniors anyway.

I attend Calvary Chapel San Jose which is one of the churches that has stayed open in spite of the orders. I also fallow John Macarthur's church. If these lock downs were necessary these churches should have been devastated with super outbreaks by now and they have had below normal cases in them and no serious cases reported. Sweden has kept their schools open and you can see that opening schools was never a serious safety risk. These lockdowns are part of a larger agenda.

 

[lsume]

Supreme Court ruling in California case allows indoor religious services to resume -- with some limits

Unfortunately, the state is still allowed to restrict capacity to 25% and ban singing, but three justices opposed even that, which is a good sign that as infection numbers get under control, the freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment will no longer be compromised (what would Patrick Henry say about these restrictions?).

I now intend to sue the state of California for violating my rights, by preventing me from visiting churches in California I greatly love when I travel to the Golden State.

I was unaware of that situation in California though not surprised. Have they muzzled the state legislature as well?

 

[Kenny'sID]

Churches are not above the law. We must obey what our heath officials deem necessary to protect our brothers and sisters from a potentially deadly disease. Why is that so hard to understand???

Its so hard to understand because they figure they are Christians, and God will be on their side if they rebel.

When in reality, God has his hands on the laws of the land, and these rules are for saftey, and include any gatherings....no one group is being targeted here.

So, I say, beat your chest, have your meetings, sing loudly, and blow that stuff all over the room, but when God doesn't protect you from the virus because you didn't listen to his rules/laws of the land, then don't come crying to him because he let you down...you let yourselves down.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

It is not like places of worship are being singled out for unfair treatment.

Actually they are if you look at the Constitution and compare that to the various previous Governor executive orders. The Public expression of Worship is something specifically (literally)protected by the Constitution so when houses of worship are closed when Walmart, liquor stores, marijuana dispensaries, bars and strip clubs are open.... that is an issue!

 

[dqhall]

I attend Calvary Chapel San Jose which is one of the churches that has stayed open in spite of the orders. I also fallow John Macarthur's church. If these lock downs were necessary these churches should have been devastated with super outbreaks by now and they have had below normal cases in them and no serious cases reported. Sweden has kept their schools open and you can see that opening schools was never a serious safety risk. These lockdowns are part of a larger agenda.

At risk people may opt out of church. My parents are in long term care. They got their second vaccinations this week. Hospitalization and death rates have been dropping.

 

[dqhall]

Actually they are if you look at the Constitution and compare that to the various previous Governor executive orders. The Public expression of Worship is something specifically (literally)protected by the Constitution so when houses of worship are closed when liquor stores, marijuana dispensaries, bathhouses, bars and strip clubs are open.... that is an issue!

It is a state government issue. Politics is not always fair or right. Restaurants were closed in some areas, I would not have expected churches to remain open in those areas. China closed everything down for a few days then opened everything a few days later and the virus was gone. That sort of discipline is lacking in America.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

China closed everything down for a few days then opened everything a few days later and the virus was gone.

UM they forcefully closed things down for weeks erecting walls around apartment complexes for 6 weeks or more. They actually welded the doors and windows of their citizens apartments shut to keep them from leaving and potentially spreading the disease.... Many of them died trapped that way like sardines in a can...


Sealed in: Chinese trapped at home by coronavirus feel the strain

Video appears to show people in China forcibly taken for quarantine over coronavirus

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1703503427818

 

[John Mullally]

Yes and today I encountered a man in front of the Grocery store with a strong Christian message on his T-Shirt gathering signatures for a petition to recall our California Governor (Newsome).

 

[chilehed]

Churches are not above the law. We must obey what our heath officials deem necessary to protect our brothers and sisters from a potentially deadly disease.

Health officials are not above the law, either. Regulations shall not be arbitrary and capricious, and those that infringe on constitutionally protected rights are subject to strict scrutiny. Many of the regulations are arbitrary and capricious, and have no reasonable relationship to policies that would actually serve a legitimate epidemiological goal; such regulations and orders are illigitimate and no one has any legal obligation to obey them.

What's so hard to understand about that?

 

[Lg2000]

If my church was open and not caring about members lives it would be time for me to find a new church.
I’m glad most churches I see are closed and my church Is still closed because they care. We’ve lost some people in the congregation due to the rona.

this is sad news but not surprised. Most churches and mainstream Christianity is wack
They so desperately want to act like they are persecuted.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Now that SCOTUS has settled that, the onus is back on churches themselves. Will they risk the health of their congregants and neighbors or follow reasonable health guidance? As for the results of the SCOTUS ruling I am reminded of the adage, "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

I am happy to attend a church that shows some common sense.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Will they risk the health of their congregants and neighbors or follow reasonable health guidance?...I am happy to attend a church that shows some common sense.

Then...you are "risking" the health of the congregants,

or else you're not really attending anything.

 

[NotreDame]

So we have established that they impair the exercise of a Constitutional right.

Now move onto the fact that the decrees against the churches are arbitrary, inconsistent with the proclamations dealing with similar institutions and gatherings, and unnecessary (the particular regulations, that is, not the general concept of something being good for society, etc. etc.).

“We”? Whose this “we”? I’ve made no such concession.

Now move onto the fact that the decrees against the churches are arbitrary, inconsistent with the proclamations dealing with similar institutions and gatherings

I will, right after you establish the above as a “fact.”

 

[John Mullally]

“We”? Whose this “we”? I’ve made no such concession.

SCOTUS. Dome and Domer.

 

[NotreDame]

Health officials are not above the law, either. Regulations shall not be arbitrary and capricious, and those that infringe on constitutionally protected rights are subject to strict scrutiny. Many of the regulations are arbitrary and capricious, and have no reasonable relationship to policies that would actually serve a legitimate epidemiological goal; such regulations and orders are illigitimate and no one has any legal obligation to obey them.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Likely overstating your argument with the word “many.”

The scientific and epidemiological evidence is unequivocal, church/religious services of a certain size and exercised under certain conditions is very risky to spread covid.