Illegal Drugs!

[MostRadicalManEver]

What do you think?

Did making drugs like cocaine, heroine, and marijuana illegal cause more problems than it helped?

[FONT=&quot]Give me your thoughts![/FONT]

 

[MostRadicalManEver]

i thing all drugs r immoral and never heard of them ever helping anyone they just ruin peoples lives. your body is precious and taking drugs is an insult to what god gave you.

Thanks for your opinion. But you didn't answer the question!

 

[Protocol11]

i thing all drugs r immoral and never heard of them ever helping anyone they just ruin peoples lives. your body is precious and taking drugs is an insult to what god gave you.

Even aspirin is immoral?

And there are plenty of people helped by the medical uses of pot.

As for the OP, yes, the drug war has caused more greater harm than the drugs ever counld have. Not only has it not been effective, as drugs are as easy to get as ever, but also cheaper and more potent since being banned.

The war of drugs is a war on American citizens. It is a war on our freedom and rights. Since it's enception, the government has only gotten bigger and more powerful. The police are now able to violate our Constitutional rights with ease, the fed is able to violate state's rights and the Constitution with no oversight. It has inspired the government to use paramilitary tactics against innocent, non-violent uses and even non-users, resulting in an untold number of deaths and terrorized familys due to botched drug raids using shoddy evidence, paid snitches, and entrapment techniques.

It has undermined the legitimacy of law, and has allowed violent, dangerous criminals to get away with more of there crimes, since the police would rather bust a pothead who won't fight back than do their jobs and go catch a murderer that will fight. It has led to an overcrowding prison system that where a crackhead gets more time than a child molestor.

It is a war of special intrests, big business, lies, propaganda and racism. And it is leading on the road of a police state where we are subjects rather than citizens.

 

[Protocol11]

i think its helped making drugs illeagal because we can send drug users to prison away from good people, because people who use drugs are always bad people i've noticed othewise they wouldnt take drugs and break the law. if they weren't illeagal then we might have even more evil people on the streets, and knowone wants that do they?

Wow, that is some seriously deranged thinking. With a mentality like this, it's no wonder your country has turned into a surviellance society. I hope the extreme loss of your freedom and rights is worth throwing some potheads in prison to be raped by the true criminals.

Apparently the drug hasn't been effective is sending all the bad people to jail. People with your kind of mentality, that support the rape and brutalization of innocent people are 10x worse than any drug user. You're the one that should be in prison.

 

[gwenmead]

I'm inclined to think that outlawing certain drugs tends to create more problems than it solves. I'm thinking here of things like intense social stigma against drug users, the development of a black market for buying/selling/manufacturing, imprisonment of many essentially nonviolent individuals for possession, an increased taxpayer burden for to pay for more jail space, things like that.

Here's a question I just thought of: is drug use a moral issue, or a public health issue? Or both? Or neither? I tend to look at it as a public health issue, but I think the society I live in regards it primarily as a moral one. Maybe the way people frame the issue has a lot to do with what their response is going to be.

That's probably a very general answer, and I apologize if it isn't terribly specific or well-thought-out yet. However I seem to have a developing head cold and am rather hopped up on cold meds at the moment, so I hope you will forgive a less than elaborate answer for now.

 

[gwenmead]

if drugs were legal how would we send people who take drugs to prison?

Why should we send drug users to prison?

What is it about drug use specifically that makes it worthy of criminalization?

Note that I will not accept the tautology of "drug use is criminal because it was made a crime", nor will I accept the tautology of "only criminals are drug users because drug use is criminal because it was made a crime." I want to know why you think drug use was made illegal in the first place.

Looking forward to your thoughts on the matter.

MostRadicalManEver, I will be happy to start a new thread if you feel this question veers too far from your OP.

 

[gwenmead]

Hmm.... my spider sense is detecting a Poe...

 

[Jade Margery]

Hmm.... my spider sense is detecting a Poe...

I think not...

 

[MostRadicalManEver]

[FONT=&quot]

Why should we send drug users to prison?

What is it about drug use specifically that makes it worthy of criminalization?

I think the elements of a convictable crime should be a damaged party and a body of evidence clearly demonstrating that damage. I see no damage to a complaining party in drug use.

[/FONT] Christians should never initiate violence against another person.

 

[Ben-AG]

A lot of people mention how it isn't right to charge a "non-violent drug user" and how said people aren't worse, possibly even better as Protocol11 puts it, who support the laws which outlaw those particular drugs.

Now, we all know of the horrendous fighting going on over such drugs. There were 5,376 documented murders in 2008, just in MEXICO! In 2007, 2,477 people were killed, as documented. This, apparently though, is only a small fraction of the horrendous acts that occur in "Latin American countries." -
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/world/americas/09mexico.html

"Mr. Medina-Mora said the overall level of violence in Mexico remained moderate compared with that in other Latin American countries."

"Mexico’s overall homicide rate last year, 11 deaths per 100,000 people, was a small fraction of the rates in Colombia, Guatemala, El Salvador and Brazil, he said."

Why is this all happening? I think, we must ask, more importantly, how?

"Officials complain ... that the billions of dollars in drug profits have corrupted many institutions in Mexico."

You, the "non-violent drug user," are fueling such dreadful destruction. Destruction that is far worse than you can imagine and goes beyond your own selfish existence. Now, I know your arguments against this case are going to contain arguments along the line of: "None of the drug-war violence would be happening if it was not illegal." Does that make it moral?

Regardless that you don't think its right that cannibus is illegal, it is, and it is not right to break such law when it is fueling such atrocities. If you don't think it's right, petition; protest; try to get laws passed peacefully so that it won't be fought over in appaling ways. I have no problem with that. But, understand what you are fueling in the present and how many "rapes and murders" you have funded. I agree that such atrocities would probably not happen if it was legal and we had actual companies doing the growing, but that does not take away from our current situation. Whether you like it or not, you are killing people with your hobby. Is that moral?

 

[MostRadicalManEver]

I am sure you knew this was coming…

Prohibition escalated violence regarding alcohol. Al Capone rings a bell?

When you make a substance illegal you are simply putting it into the hands of criminals. These criminals trade it on the black market at a much higher price because of the risk involved. Therefore the addicts who have to pay much more for their habit resort to violence to get their fix. This type of violence jeopardizes the safety of good law abiding families.


I disagree with drug use. But making it illegal seems to make things worse.

[FONT=&quot]I think the root of the problem lies somewhere with parenting. [/FONT]

 

[Jade Margery]

A lot of people mention how it isn't right to charge a "non-violent drug user" and how said people aren't worse, possibly even better as Protocol11 puts it, who support the laws which outlaw those particular drugs.

Now, we all know of the horrendous fighting going on over such drugs. There were 5,376 documented murders in 2008, just in MEXICO! In 2007, 2,477 people were killed, as documented. This, apparently though, is only a small fraction of the horrendous acts that occur in "Latin American countries." -
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/world/americas/09mexico.html

"Mr. Medina-Mora said the overall level of violence in Mexico remained moderate compared with that in other Latin American countries."

"Mexico’s overall homicide rate last year, 11 deaths per 100,000 people, was a small fraction of the rates in Colombia, Guatemala, El Salvador and Brazil, he said."

Why is this all happening? I think, we must ask, more importantly, how?

"Officials complain ... that the billions of dollars in drug profits have corrupted many institutions in Mexico."

You, the "non-violent drug user," are fueling such dreadful destruction. Destruction that is far worse than you can imagine and goes beyond your own selfish existence. Now, I know your arguments against this case are going to contain arguments along the line of: "None of the drug-war violence would be happening if it was not illegal." Does that make it moral?

Regardless that you don't think its right that cannibus is illegal, it is, and it is not right to break such law when it is fueling such atrocities. If you don't think it's right, petition; protest; try to get laws passed peacefully so that it won't be fought over in appaling ways. I have no problem with that. But, understand what you are fueling in the present and how many "rapes and murders" you have funded. I agree that such atrocities would probably not happen if it was legal and we had actual companies doing the growing, but that does not take away from our current situation. Whether you like it or not, you are killing people with your hobby. Is that moral?

You make a very compelling statement; I never thought of it that way before.

It's something of a vicious cycle then... the users get charged and imprisoned, which makes using more dangerous, which means more people get hurt, which means more users get charged, etc. etc. etc.

The way you put it though, it's almost like buying diamonds which have been mined through near-slave labor and horrible work conditions... and yet people keep on buying diamonds, even though this stuff is well publicized by human rights groups...

I still think that the best way to reduce a lot of this violence would be to make most drugs legal, although keep the manufacturing and selling of a lot of them illegal if you do not have a license to do so. Some, like crystal meth, should remain completely illegal, this due mostly to the... ah... explosive... nature of the process that makes it a serious risk to the health and safety of other people. Otherwise it is just prohibition all over again, and there's a reason that didn't work.

 

[b&wpac4]

if your a good person and get a good education then you wont take drugs which kill you and other people in mexico. once we catch everyone who takes drugs then the market will disapear. we cant just forget about it we have to be strong and send these bad people who take drugs to prison. i cant believe people can even think it could be a good idea.

Things are rarely as easy as they seem. People become addicted to drugs and need help to break that addiction. Often, throwing them in jail is not the help they need. Drugs will never disappear completely.

I will point out that I am on a prescription medicine that is probably doing more damage to me than a drug like marijuana.

 

[Jade Margery]

if your a good person and get a good education then you wont take drugs which kill you and other people in mexico. once we catch everyone who takes drugs then the market will disapear. we cant just forget about it we have to be strong and send these bad people who take drugs to prison. i cant believe people can even think it could be a good idea.

Who do you think pays for the prisons? For food and shelter and lawyers and courtrooms and policemen... You do. When a person is sent to prison, the taxpayers (YOU) pick up the slack.

Personally, the only people I want in prison are the ones I would pay money to keep away from me and my family: murderers, rapists, thieves and muggers. The potheads next door? They're not hurting anyone (directly, point noted Ben) and can hold jobs, so why should I pay for them to sit in a small dark room twiddling their thumbs and getting buggered by their cell mate?

 

[MostRadicalManEver]

once we catch everyone who takes drugs then the market will disapear.

So you think we CAN eliminate ALL drug users?

Like we CAN catch all “bad people” who don’t wear their seat belts?

What do you think about those “BAD PEOPLE” that drink alcohol? Alcohol was illegal too remember?

[FONT=&quot]Do you like hurting people that disagree with you? [/FONT]

 

[b&wpac4]

bwpac, if they go to prison then they can get help there where we can keep an eye on them. if they cant learn a lesson in there then where are they going to learn.

Because the drug problem is totally not also inside of our prisons, and locking people in cells is the best way to help with addictions.

 

[Everlasting33]

Here's a question, how would it help to legalize these drugs? I don't see many benefits from it.

Legalizing highly addictive drugs will do more harm than good for our society.

 

[gwenmead]

Is alcohol "highly addictive"?

 

[b&wpac4]

Is alcohol "highly addictive"?

Cigarettes are completely non-addictive. I have statements from tobacco executives from the 50s to prove it.

 

[Everlasting33]

Is alcohol "highly addictive"?

We are not talking about alcohol in this thread...the OP asked about heroin, cocaine, and pot.

Let's try to stay on topic.