If!?

[Elder 111]

If the Sabbath was not part of the Ten commandments would you still contend that the Ten commandments were abolished?
Is it true that the only problem you have with the ten is the Sabbath?

 

[toLiJC]

the ten commandments are still in effect, and the "sabbath" is the need of sanctification for the creature of God (which is mostly the human) while He is still in a state of sleepiness, because He created all the universal creation in six days(144 hours) and has fallen into a state of sleepiness since the seventh day, for that reason He blessed the time during which He will be in such a state, and hallowed it so that the spiritual servants might sanctify His creature (which is mostly the human) while He is still not fully alert to do it all alone, some people say (that) the sanctification should be made/done whenever there is a visible/certain need of such, others - in each seventh part of the time

1 Timothy 2:1-10 "I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks(i.e. prayers, solicitations, intercessions, and blessings), be made for all men(i.e. for the salvation and life's provision of all humans); For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty(i.e. in all goodness and earnestness). For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men(i.e. all humans/souls) to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth(i.e. and to become good/righteous). For there is one God, and one mediator(also: and one Lord) between God and men, the man(i.e. the besouled being) Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time. Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not; ) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity. I will therefore that men(i.e. that the male believers) pray every where, lifting up holy hands(i.e. entirely showing love/goodness), without wrath(i.e. without hostility/aggression) and doubting(i.e. and dramatizations/stir/intrigues/strife). In like manner also, that women(i.e. that the female believers) adorn themselves in modest apparel(i.e. in humility), with shamefacedness(i.e. with meekness) and sobriety(i.e. and sanity); not with broided hair(i.e. not with pride), or gold(i.e. or vainglory), or pearls(i.e. or (inordinate) wisdom), or costly array(i.e. or (inordinate) elevation); But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works."

Blessings

 

[SAAN]

If the Sabbath was not part of the Ten commandments would you still contend that the Ten commandments were abolished?
Is it true that the only problem you have with the ten is the Sabbath?

How exactly do you keep the Sabbath?

When does it begin for you...Sunset Friday or Sunrise Saturday?

Is worship Mandatory that day?

What is allowed to do that day?

What is considered work?

Can you travel a long distance that day?

Are you allowed to prepare and cook food that day?

Are you allowed to watch TV that day?

Are you allowed to go on the internet that day?

Can you play sports on that day?

 

[Meowzltov]

Interesting thread. I look forward to seeing some of the answers. I can already guess what some of the die hards will say.

I am a Jew as well as a Christian. I believe that God gave the Sabbath to Israel to keep, that it is part of remembering our Exodus from Egypt (Deut 5:15) which is why Gentiles do not need to observe Sabbath.

How exactly do you keep the Sabbath?

When does it begin for you...Sunset Friday or Sunrise Saturday?

I start Shabbat just before Sunset on Friday evening -- that way if something goes wrong I have a few extra minutes.

Is worship Mandatory that day?

No, but it is customary. Right now I'm meeting my Sunday Mass obligation by carpooling with a friend to Mass on Sunday. However, as soon as I buy my car, I will be attending the 4 PM Saturday Vigil Mass which counts for my Sunday obligation but which dovetails very nicely into a sabbath worship.

What is allowed to do that day?

Most things. I sleep in, walk to my NA meeting, eat yummy foods, spend a lot of time on CF, read, visit with family and friends...

What is considered work?

Making money, going to a place of business, doing unecessary housework, lighting the stove or cooking (I have a hot meal on Friday night that I cook before sundown). Although I am only observant to Conservative standards, I do keep in mind the Orthodox list of labors used to complete the tabernacle (which all stopped on shabbat) as ideas for what not to do. For example writing -- although I'll write on sacred topics here in CF, I won't do homework, business writing, or make out to do lists.

Can you travel a long distance that day?

No, in fact I try not to drive at all except to church.

Are you allowed to prepare and cook food that day?

Prepare, yes, but cook, no.

Are you allowed to watch TV that day?

This is my week spot. I should not be doing things that violate the spirit of the Shabbat and watching secular shows does, but I do get bored and watch movies. I aspire to break this habit. I'm getting better about it.

Are you allowed to go on the internet that day?

Yes, to religious sites within the spirit of Shabbat.

Can you play sports on that day?

I can but I don't. I'm just not a sports person.

 

[Elder 111]

How exactly do you keep the Sabbath?

When does it begin for you...Sunset Friday or Sunrise Saturday?

Is worship Mandatory that day?

What is allowed to do that day?

What is considered work?

Can you travel a long distance that day?

Are you allowed to prepare and cook food that day?

Are you allowed to watch TV that day?

Are you allowed to go on the internet that day?

Can you play sports on that day?

Clearly your questions here demonstrate that your problem is with the Sabbath and nothing else. Right now there is an international call to keep Sunday under the idea that it is a Family day. Last year in America there was a call to observe such a Sunday and not to even turn on your cell phones. Was and is all that a problem? NO! But barely mention Sabbath and all and more become an extreme problem.
All Your questions are directly answered in the bible.
Answers to questions:

1. Yes.
2. God is worthy of worship on His holy day.
3. What honors God.
4. The same things you call work. To do for our own benefit we should not do.
   
5. To do good, Yes.
6. God says prepare before the day.
7. What is this allowed about? Once it is holy it can be done.
8. I do go on the internet, on this forum. I hope that that is not sin for you.
9. NO!

 

[Elder 111]

How exactly do you keep the Sabbath?

When does it begin for you...Sunset Friday or Sunrise Saturday?

Is worship Mandatory that day?

What is allowed to do that day?

What is considered work?

Can you travel a long distance that day?

Are you allowed to prepare and cook food that day?

Are you allowed to watch TV that day?

Are you allowed to go on the internet that day?

Can you play sports on that day?

Now can you answer the question in the OP?

 

[Meowzltov]

• The same things you call work. To do for our own benefit we should not do.

Actually different people call different things work. Some people say work is just what you do for money. Others say work can be things like studying for school. Taking care of children is definitely hard work, but obviously you still have to do that on shabbat. People disagree about whether cooking is work. People disagree about whether sports is work. There is all sorts of disagreement. This is why there had to be an oral Torah that answered the question of what was work, otherwise everyone would have been doing something different.

 

[Soyeong]

the ten commandments are still in effect, and the "sabbath" is the need of sanctification for the creature of God (which is mostly the human) while He is still in a state of sleepiness, because He created all the universal creation in six days(144 hours) and has fallen into a state of sleepiness since the seventh day, for that reason He blessed the time during which He will be in such a state, and hallowed it so that the spiritual servants might sanctify His creature (which is mostly the human) while He is still not fully alert to do it all alone, some people say (that) the sanctification should be made/done whenever there is a visible/certain need of such, others - in each seventh part of the time

To rest from creating is to cease from activity, not to enter a state of sleepiness or unalertness. It's in the same way that command to rest on the Sabbath doesn't mean spend the whole day sleeping, but to cease from our work.

 

[Elder 111]

Actually different people call different things work. Some people say work is just what you do for money. Others say work can be things like studying for school. Taking care of children is definitely hard work, but obviously you still have to do that on shabbat. People disagree about whether cooking is work. People disagree about whether sports is work. There is all sorts of disagreement. This is why there had to be an oral Torah that answered the question of what was work, otherwise everyone would have been doing something different.

The bible states clearly what is required and what is not. I believe that you have a good understanding of what is meant in this matter. You have demonstrated well how we should act in your earlier post.

 

[Meowzltov]

The bible states clearly what is required and what is not. I believe that you have a good understanding of what is meant in this matter. You have demonstrated well how we should act in your earlier post.

Thank you for the compliment. But I don't get my understanding from the Bible alone. I use oral Torah to help me understand what "work" means. I think if the Bible were clear about what work and rest meant, we wouldn't have all these disagreements about it.

 

[Elder 111]

Why is it that everyone is afraid to answer the OP question and vote?

 

[SAAN]

Interesting thread. I look forward to seeing some of the answers. I can already guess what some of the die hards will say.

I am a Jew as well as a Christian. I believe that God gave the Sabbath to Israel to keep, that it is part of remembering our Exodus from Egypt (Deut 5:15) which is why Gentiles do not need to observe Sabbath.

I start Shabbat just before Sunset on Friday evening -- that way if something goes wrong I have a few extra minutes.

No, but it is customary. Right now I'm meeting my Sunday Mass obligation by carpooling with a friend to Mass on Sunday. However, as soon as I buy my car, I will be attending the 4 PM Saturday Vigil Mass which counts for my Sunday obligation but which dovetails very nicely into a sabbath worship.

Most things. I sleep in, walk to my NA meeting, eat yummy foods, spend a lot of time on CF, read, visit with family and friends...
Making money, going to a place of business, doing unecessary housework, lighting the stove or cooking (I have a hot meal on Friday night that I cook before sundown). Although I am only observant to Conservative standards, I do keep in mind the Orthodox list of labors used to complete the tabernacle (which all stopped on shabbat) as ideas for what not to do. For example writing -- although I'll write on sacred topics here in CF, I won't do homework, business writing, or make out to do lists.
No, in fact I try not to drive at all except to church.
Prepare, yes, but cook, no.
This is my week spot. I should not be doing things that violate the spirit of the Shabbat and watching secular shows does, but I do get bored and watch movies. I aspire to break this habit. I'm getting better about it.
Yes, to religious sites within the spirit of Shabbat.
I can but I don't. I'm just not a sports person.

Thanks for the reply, just getting an idea of those who do observe it, how exactly do they do it.

 

[SAAN]

Clearly your questions here demonstrate that your problem is with the Sabbath and nothing else. Right now there is an international call to keep Sunday under the idea that it is a Family day. Last year in America there was a call to observe such a Sunday and not to even turn on your cell phones. Was and is all that a problem? NO! But barely mention Sabbath and all and more become an extreme problem.
All Your questions are directly answered in the bible.
Answers to questions:

1. Yes.
2. God is worthy of worship on His holy day.
3. What honors God.
4. The same things you call work. To do for our own benefit we should not do.
   
5. To do good, Yes.
6. God says prepare before the day.
7. What is this allowed about? Once it is holy it can be done.
8. I do go on the internet, on this forum. I hope that that is not sin for you.
9. NO!

Thanks for the reply, just getting an idea.

 

[SAAN]

Now can you answer the question in the OP?

I think the main issue with the Sabbath is that most have been duped into thinking it was abolished and Sunday replaced it. When you do research and see they were worshiping on Sunday for a while along with keeping the Sabbath, but Sunday worship was pretty much shoved down our throats and made mandatory with punishment for Sabbath keepers by the Roman Empire leaders. So I wont act blind to those facts and im honest of why I do what I do now, its a tradition thats been going on for 1800yrs.

But at the same time, God did allow this. If he had such a huge problem with Sunday worship he could have easily had the Roman Empire wiped out on the spot for doing this, yet he allowed Sunday worship to become a norm, so honestly I dont think he cares about Saturday vs Sunday worship as much as Adventist, Jews, and Hebrews do and make such a huge fuss about it.


As far as 9 out of 10 still being valid, most folks use the argument f silence by Jesus to try to say since he didnt talk about it, it must not be important anymore, but Jesus didnt talk about many things, but that doesnt make them okay either.

 

[SAAN]

Actually different people call different things work. Some people say work is just what you do for money. Others say work can be things like studying for school. Taking care of children is definitely hard work, but obviously you still have to do that on shabbat. People disagree about whether cooking is work. People disagree about whether sports is work. There is all sorts of disagreement. This is why there had to be an oral Torah that answered the question of what was work, otherwise everyone would have been doing something different.

Agreed, but at times that day can feel like bondage when you cant do a thing you like.

 

[SAAN]

Why is it that everyone is afraid to answer the OP question and vote?

You pretty much set it up for answers you want to hear only.

 

[Meowzltov]

Agreed, but at times that day can feel like bondage when you cant do a thing you like.

True. Sometimes I get bored. That's when I want to watch a movie on TV.

 

[toLiJC]

To rest from creating is to cease from activity, not to enter a state of sleepiness or unalertness. It's in the same way that command to rest on the Sabbath doesn't mean spend the whole day sleeping, but to cease from our work.

how is it possible that God ceased from working, especially after His Son says: "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."(John 5:17)?!, it would be like electrical appliances without electricity or cars without drivers, therefore it is written He has against His will fallen into a state of some sleepiness (of course without stopping to work completely), otherwise, if He premeditatedly stopped working, He would be like guilty

Blessings

 

[Soyeong]

how is it possible that God ceased from working, especially after His Son says: "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."(John 5:17)?!, it would be like electrical appliances without electricity or cars without drivers, therefore it is written He has against His will fallen into a state of some sleepiness (of course without stopping to work completely), otherwise, if He premeditatedly stopped working, He would be like guilty

Blessings

God ceased from creating new things.

 

[toLiJC]

God ceased from creating new things.

it is hardly meant primarily this, because there would be no relation to the fourth commandment(Exodus 20:8-11)

Blessings