If you turn people off from God, whose holds the responsibility?

[Autumnleaf]

I think you maybe miss my point. I am trying to understand how belief can be a choice. I want you to explain how someone - anyone - would go about choosing to believe in God, and how they would then act on that decision in order to bring about the belief. I'm not asking you to convert me. I want to understand this idea of choice about belief.

When something feels right based on experience belief happens. You don't act on that to make belief happen. Its like eating a good steak and knowing its a good steak by tasting it. It just happens.

"No true Christian..."

George Bush calls himself a Christian. As a non-Christian, that's all I have to go on. And it is quite clear that fundamentalist Christianity, however irrational and nonsensical large portions of its doctrine may be, is on the rise in the UK and continues to be taken seriously by a large proportion of the voting population in America.

If I said I was God would you send me half your paycheck? People lie all the time. Again, study who has the power and how they use it. Is Christianity being pushed on people or is it dying on the vine while Islam is making headway? Why would Christians allow mass migration of Muslims to Europe from Africa. Think about the reasons behind what is going on. If anything Christian morality is gutted in America and diluted in Europe. Some government intelligence sources say many atheists in Europe are converting to Islam. If Christians were running the show I suspect they'd be peddling their product more effectively.

Isn't it lovely that it can be appreciated in so many different ways?

What makes me pause is when someone can read what something says and appreciate it while believing it is a lie. I would discard such a book, unless its a good novel, but others seem to enjoy such nonsense.

 

[Belk]

When something feels right based on experience belief happens. You don't act on that to make belief happen. Its like eating a good steak and knowing its a good steak by tasting it. It just happens.


We all choose what we believe and what we do. It is a personal choice we make based on what we have learned. Its not my responsibility to determine whether you should believe in God or not. That is up to you.

Somehow these two statements seem incongruous.

 

[cantata]

When something feels right based on experience belief happens. You don't act on that to make belief happen. Its like eating a good steak and knowing its a good steak by tasting it. It just happens.

Ah! So belief isn't a choice! It just happens when the evidence feels right.

I'm really glad we agree. What I want to know now, though, is why God chose such an arbitrary rule for who gets saved and who doesn't. If belief is not a choice, why would people be condemned or saved based on whether they believe some particular thing?

If I said I was God would you send me half your paycheck? People lie all the time. Again, study who has the power and how they use it. Is Christianity being pushed on people or is it dying on the vine while Islam is making headway? Why would Christians allow mass migration of Muslims to Europe from Africa. Think about the reasons behind what is going on. If anything Christian morality is gutted in America and diluted in Europe. Some government intelligence sources say many atheists in Europe are converting to Islam. If Christians were running the show I suspect they'd be peddling their product more effectively.

Islam is certainly the fastest-growing religion.

I'm not saying that Christians are all in charge, but they are certainly influential. The laws and ethos of your country and mine are still rooted in Christian thought.

What makes me pause is when someone can read what something says and appreciate it while believing it is a lie. I would discard such a book, unless its a good novel, but others seem to enjoy such nonsense.

The Bible is not 100% false. Some of it is history. Even the parts which are mythological or mistaken contain social history. I don't believe Aesop's fables really happened, but I can still take moral messages from them. I don't believe that the owl and the pussycat really went to sea, but it's still a beautiful poem. And I don't believe that Romeo really stood at Juliet's balcony, but I still find it a charming scene, and one which reflects important truths about the nature of love and of humanity. In the same way, I can take certain moral messages from the prophets and from Christ's teaching, I can appreciate the Song of Songs and Genesis 1 as glorious poetry, and I can reflect on the story of Christ and think about what it tells us about human beings, about faith, and about Christianity. I don't think that's an ignoble approach to the text.