If you reject the LDS message...

SoftSpoken · May 2, 2010

Phoebe Ann said:
Doctrine and Covenants 84 states:

74 Verily, verily, I say unto you, they who believe not on your words, and are not baptized in water in my name, for the remission of their sins, that they may receive the Holy Ghost, shall be damned, and shall not come into my Fathers kingdom where my Father and I am.
75 And this revelation unto you, and commandment, is in force from this very hour upon all the world, and the gospel is unto all who have not received it.
76 But, verily I say unto all those to whom the kingdom has been givenfrom you it must be preached unto them, that they shall repent of their former evil works; for they are to be upbraided for their evil hearts of unbelief, and your brethren in Zion for their rebellion against you at the time I sent you.
77 And again I say unto you, my friends, for from henceforth I shall call you friends, it is expedient that I give unto you this commandment, that ye become even as my friends in days when I was with them, traveling to preach the gospel in my power;
78 For I suffered them not to have purse or scrip, neither two coats.
79 Behold, I send you out to prove the world, and the laborer is worthy of his hire.
80 And any man that shall go and preach this gospel of the kingdom, and fail not to continue faithful in all things, shall not be weary in mind, neither darkened, neither in body, limb, nor joint; and a hair of his head shall not fall to the ground unnoticed. And they shall not go hungry, neither athirst.
81 Therefore, take ye no thought for the morrow, for what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, or wherewithal ye shall be clothed.
82 For, consider the lilies of the field, how they grow, they toil not, neither do they spin; and the kingdoms of the world, in all their glory, are not arrayed like one of these.
83 For your Father, who is in heaven, knoweth that you have need of all these things.
84 Therefore, let the morrow take thought for the things of itself.
85 Neither take ye thought beforehand what ye shall say; but treasure up in your minds continually the words of life, and it shall be given you in the very hour that portion that shall be meted unto every man.
86 Therefore, let no man among you, for this commandment is unto all the faithful who are called of God in the church unto the ministry, from this hour take purse or scrip, that goeth forth to proclaim this gospel of the kingdom.
87 Behold, I send you out to reprove the world of all their unrighteous deeds, and to teach them of a judgment which is to come.
88 And whoso receiveth you, there I will be also, for I will go before your face. I will be on your right hand and on your left, and my Spirit shall be in your hearts, and mine angels round about you, to bear you up.
89 Whoso receiveth you receiveth me; and the same will feed you, and clothe you, and give you money.
90 And he who feeds you, or clothes you, or gives you money, shall in nowise lose his reward.
91 And he that doeth not these things is not my disciple; by this you may know my disciples.
92 He that receiveth you not, go away from him alone by yourselves, and cleanse your feet even with water, pure water, whether in heat or in cold, and bear testimony of it unto your Father which is in heaven, and return not again unto that man.
93 And in whatsoever village or city ye enter, do likewise.
94 Nevertheless, search diligently and spare not; and wo unto that house, or that village or city that rejecteth you, or your words, or your testimony concerning me.
95 Wo, I say again, unto that house, or that village or city that rejecteth you, or your words, or your testimony of me;

Those who reject the LDS message here on earth seem to be in a lot of trouble.

Rejecting God (fully or in part) has never been promised to result in blessings, to my knowledge.

Phoebe Ann said:
And when is the last time that new converts gave the missionaries food, clothing and money (Whoso receiveth you receiveth me; and the same will feed you, and clothe you, and give you money)?

The principle is alive and well today. It is viewed in a different form, however. Members contribute voluntarily to the Church, and those funds are used to feed, clothe, and house missioinaries. We do not live in a society or in times in which in-kind contributions direct to missionaries may either be appropriate or necessary, depending on the nation and culture in which one lives. Was there a point you were trying to make with this comment, other than to point out that you have not noticed an identical "support" of full-time missionaries as was referenced 150+ years ago?

Rescued One · May 2, 2010

SoftSpoken said:
Rejecting God (fully or in part) has never been promised to result in blessings, to my knowledge.

Are you saying that rejecting Mormonism is rejecting God (fully or in part)?

SoftSpoken said:
The principle is alive and well today. It is viewed in a different form, however. Members contribute voluntarily to the Church, and those funds are used to feed, clothe, and house missioinaries. We do not live in a society or in times in which in-kind contributions direct to missionaries may either be appropriate or necessary, depending on the nation and culture in which one lives. Was there a point you were trying to make with this comment, other than to point out that you have not noticed an identical "support" of full-time missionaries as was referenced 150+ years ago?

So do members' tithes help finance foreigners who wish to serve on missions? In the USA, I was told that the families who send their sons on missions have saved up the money to support those sons. The scriptures that were revealed to Joseph Smith are not necessarily binding? I never knew that.

RufustheRed · May 2, 2010

mormonheretic said:
Phoebe Ann,

With all due respect, you are in no way an expert on Mormonism, and I find it very irritating that you are a self-proclaimed expert. You have distorted this whole conversation.

I am sorry I was not able to respond sooner, but I said nothing of the sort. This is ANOTHER GROSS DISTORTION. Let me explain what I meant.

The title of this post is "If you reject the LDS message..."

When looking at the title and basically repeated in one of your last statements in the OP,

The whole purpose of your post seems to belittle and mock LDS beliefs, and seems to indicate that the LDS are unique in the idea that non-LDS are going to Hell. This is a GROSS DISTORTION again, and I find your TACTICS another form of DISINFORMATION. Your approach is truly destructive to LDS and non-LDS relations, and I ask you to truly learn LDS beliefs and quit spreading DISTORTIONS and DISINFORMATION.

Atheists typically spread distortions about Christianity, and I would expect more from you.

You (and many others here) seem to relish the idea of posting obscure passages without context, and making RASH statements like "Those who reject the LDS message here on earth seem to be in a lot of trouble."

My purpose in pointing out the scripture in Mark 16:16, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" was to point out that ALL Christians believe that unbelievers "shall be damned." This is not at all unique to Mormons. Does your belief system believe that Hindus or Muslims "shall be damned"? (I would expect you to call them "unbelievers" and therefore subject to damnation.) If this were a forum about Hindus and Muslims, do you think this would be considered flaming against Hinduism or Islam? If your belief system believes that Hindus and Muslims will not be damned, please explain your belief system to me. (I won't pretend to fully understand your belief system without clarification as you did when you said

Please quit distorting Mormon beliefs. We're happy to answer honest questions; but we do not like to have our beliefs distorted beyond recognition so they sound ridiculous and bizarre.

Phoebe Ann, if you believe that Mormons believe this passage from D&C that you have quoted, have you ever heard it quoted in ANY LDS church meeting that you have attended? If so, was it presented with the same interpretation that you are putting forth here?

It appears to me that this is your TACTIC: Find a passage of scripture or quote in Mormonism, make a sensational headline to make Mormonism sound bizarre, and then paint all Mormons as "in agreement with it." If this is not your purpose, please clarify your purpose to me, because I can't see your purpose as anything other than an attempt to belittle and mock Mormon beliefs. This seems to be a rule violation on this forum against mocking and belittling. If it is not a rule violation, please clarify why you think this is not belittling or mocking.

I take it that you do not like Phoebe Ann? Is that correct? May I suggest that you just address the issues or dogma that you feel she is misrepresenting rather than attempting to analyze the purpose of her posts?

On another thread, http://www.christianforums.com/t7456305-12/, you said,

From my interactions with you, it appears to me you do engage in disinformation tactics, and you're just not a person I want to continue to argue/discuss religion with.

May I ask why you do not want to continue to discuss/argue religion with her? It appears that this is exactly what you DO want to do.

Remember the purpose of this site is "for the discussion of LDS and Mormon beliefs and doctrines." It is not to analyze WHY people are asking questions or presenting LDS teachings.

'nuff said.

Rufus

Rescued One · May 2, 2010

mormonheretic said:
As a Mormon for more than 40 years, having taught Mormon beliefs as a missionary, I am eminently more qualified than you in explaining Mormon interpretations of scripture.

Are you an expert on Mormonism?

How do you know that you are eminently more qualified? Is it because you served a mission? Are all returned missionaries more qualified than their grandmothers?

mormonheretic said:
If you cannot see your own biases, then this isn't going to be a fruitful discussion. We ALL have biases, or as you call it "spin." If you don't believe that, what was the point you were making when you said "Those who reject the LDS message here on earth seem to be in a lot of trouble."?

74 Verily, verily, I say unto you, they who believe not on your words, and are not baptized in water in my name, for the remission of their sins, that they may receive the Holy Ghost, shall be damned, and shall not come into my Father’s kingdom where my Father and I am.
(Doctrine and Covenants 84)

Those who reject the LDS message shall be damned. Damned(in LDS language) means that one's eternal progression is limited/stopped/cannot go beyond a certain point.

Those who reject the LDS message "shall not come into my Father's kingdom." What does that mean to you?

mormonheretic said:
Difference to whom? I get the feeling that you have a big issue with the idea that Mormons think they will get into heaven, and a non-denominational person like you will be left out.

I have no issue at all. I don't believe that only those who accept Mormonism and go to the LDS temple to make covenants are going to be in Heavenly Father's presence.

mormonheretic said:
Well, some Mormons probably believe that, but the fact of the matter is that (as Zechariah pointed out above), we are not to be the judge of whether someone is a believer or not.

I didn't ask you to judge anyone nor did I accuse you of judging anyone. I quoted your scripture. Are you embarrassed by your scripture or do you just reject the verses I posted?

mormonheretic said:
Furthermore, am I correct that you believe that Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus are all going to Hell. If this is the case, then I think YOU have unfairly judged them just as you feel misjudged by some Mormons.

I don't feel misjudged by LDS. I don't feel misjudged by Muslims. I would very much like to share Christ with my Hindu neighbors but they aren't interested in becoming Christians. My Bible says, "He that believeth not is condemned already." Your Doctrine and Covenants says, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, they who believe not on your words, and are not baptized in water in my name, for the remission of their sins, that they may receive the Holy Ghost, shall be damned, and shall not come into my Father’s kingdom where my Father and I am."

mormonheretic said:
Finally, you didn't answer some questions that I would like to hear your response to. I will bold them for emphasis.

If you believe that Mormons believe this passage from D&C that you have quoted, have you ever heard it quoted in ANY LDS church meeting that you have attended?

Do LDS believe and follow only the scriptures that are presented in church meetings? If not, then your question is simply a tactic to throw everyone off.

It is interesting that when LDS teach Institute Classes, certain verses from Doctrine and Covenants 84 are omitted. You will note that verses 74-79 are not covered in the manual. Have those verses been removed from the Doctrine and Covenants? I would think not because they are still online at scriptures.lds.org.

Doctrine and Covenants Institute Student Manual - Section 84 - The Oath and Covenant of the Priesthood

For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.
Doctrine and Covenants 84:44

mormonheretic said:
Finally, what was the purpose for starting this topic? Was it to show the error of Mormons belief system?

I did not say that the Mormon belief system is wrong, did I?

Rescued One · May 2, 2010

What would LDS say about these verses?

"And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts. But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium."
Acts 13:49-51

"And after thou hast come up unto the land of Zion, and hast proclaimed my word, thou shalt speedily return, proclaiming my word among the congregations of the wicked, not in haste, neither in wrath nor with strife. And shake off the dust of thy feet against those who receive thee not, not in their presence, lest thou provoke them, but in secret; and wash thy feet, as a testimony against them in the day of judgment."
Doctrine & Covenants 60:14-15

bbbbbbb · May 2, 2010

Zechariah said:
First of all, your understanding of the doctrine is flawed. Those who receive an inheritance in the telestial kingdom (which, remember, is a kingdom of glory, and there is no glory without God) are not without the companionship of the Holy Ghost. What's more, they will be servants of God. How do you suppose one can serve God, if he is void of even the Holy Ghost?

Secondly, we are not fortune-tellers. We have no way of knowing where you will end up, or each other, for that matter, because we are not mind readers, cannot see into the hearts of other men, and because we have no way of knowing what you, or they, may or may not choose in the future. So we prefer to leave such judgment up to God, as He is the one with that capacity.

I will be the first to confess that my understanding of Mormon theology is quite lacking and I greatly appreciate the patience of you and others as you attempt to explain things to me.

Although the Bible tells us that the wind and the rain are servants of God and that God caused Pharaoh to serve him (quite apart from Pharaoh having the Holy Ghost to help him) I can understand your thinking and am pleased to know that Holy Ghost will be in the Telestial Kingdom, as well.

As for myself, it appears the worst-case scenario will be that I will end up in the Telestial Kingdom. I don't quality for the Outer Darkness and very much doubt that the Celestial Kingdom will be my destination. However, even in my worst-case scenario I will enjoy eternal bliss, which is not a bad thing at all, would you not agree?

bbbbbbb · May 2, 2010

Phoebe Ann said:
Those in the Telestial Kingdom will be visited by the Holy Ghost according to LDS teaching.

Those in the Terrestrial Kingdom will be visited by Christ.

Personally, I don't believe there is any bliss or happiness without my Heavenly Father. Adam and Eve enjoyed His Presence.

Although I entirely agree with you, it is the LDS who teach that there are two kingdoms without Heavenly Father in which the inhabitants will be quite happy.

Ran77 · May 2, 2010

bbbbbbb said:
I will be the first to confess that my understanding of Mormon theology is quite lacking and I greatly appreciate the patience of you and others as you attempt to explain things to me.

Although your comment is directed at Zech, I wanted to say that I will endeavour to be more patient with you.

SoftSpoken · May 2, 2010

Phoebe Ann said:
Are you saying that rejecting Mormonism is rejecting God (fully or in part)?

Yes, I am.

Phoebe Ann said:
So do members' tithes help finance foreigners who wish to serve on missions? In the USA, I was told that the families who send their sons on missions have saved up the money to support those sons.

Tithing funds are used in part to fund the Church's missionary efforts. Whether that includes assisting in the financing of individuals' missions I do not know, although I am happy to contribute if that is one of the ways in which the funds are used. However, there is a general missionary fund to which members may contribute, which fund is specifically in place to help finance missions for those who cannot do so themselves. Of course, the missionary himself (or herself) is expected to fund his own mission. If he cannot, his family is expected to assist in that funding. If what they are able to do is insufficient, the Church can assist, so long as it has funds available to do so.

Phoebe Ann said:
The scriptures that were revealed to Joseph Smith are not necessarily binding? I never knew that.

Why do you suggest that these scriptures are not binding today?

mormonheretic · May 3, 2010

RufustheRed said:
I take it that you do not like Phoebe Ann? Is that correct?

Yes, Rufus, that is correct.

May I suggest that you just address the issues or dogma that you feel she is misrepresenting rather than attempting to analyze the purpose of her posts?

Rufus, I have done that repeatedly, using Biblical verses see

mormonheretic said:
this thread

I feel she intentionally misrepresents our beliefs, and it is because of this intentional misrepresentation that it is hard to effectively address her points. In addition, she avoids answering my tough questions, because it appears to me that she sees her hypocrisy, but doesn't want to admit it. I have a very hard time speaking with someone who intentionally misrepresents, because they seem dishonest. It almost seems to me like she is a disaffected former Mormon who has left the faith in bitterness, and is doing all in her power to show how evil Mormonism is. I don't feel she has any desire to be objective here.

On the other thread, christianforums.com/t7456305-12/, you said, May I ask why you do not want to continue to discuss/argue religion with her? It appears that this is exactly what you DO want to do.

Rufus, you responded to me on that thread,

RufustheRed said:
Of course, it is your right not to communicate with her and there is an "ignore" feature for just that purpose. However, may I suggest that you point out exactly what these disinformational passages are rather than just shutting the door and saying "I am not going to talk with you because I do not like what you say." Well, anyway, now you have my two cents worth, as insignificant as it may seem.
Go in peace and do as you feel led.

Rufus

I decided to give her another chance, precisely because of the post of yours I quoted above. She has twice avoided answering all my tough question in bold on this thread. I know why, because if she answers truthfully, it will undercut all her arguments (which is why I asked the questions.) She is not being fair to Mormons, and she knows it, all the while hiding behind distorted views of Mormonism. I have pointed out the distortions, but she says she is not "spinning" anything. I just can't have a real conversation with a dishonest person.

Remember the purpose of this site is "for the discussion of LDS and Mormon beliefs and doctrines." It is not to analyze WHY people are asking questions or presenting LDS teachings.

She seems more interesting in discussing distorted views of LDS beliefs. I really don't think a productive discussion can be had with her. She is not interested in discussion--she is interested in disinformation, and I don't think disinformation is an appropriate tactic "for the discussion of LDS and Mormon beliefs and doctrines."

'nuff said.

sk8Joyful · May 3, 2010

Originally Posted by Phoebe Ann

Are you saying that rejecting Mormonism is rejecting God (fully or in part)?

SoftSpoken said:
Yes, I am.

Fortunately, GOD (not mere humanity) is our Creator , Father , SAVIOR , Best-friend & Resurrector &
when one of His human-creations accepts & follows... GOD in these relationships, we are assured Eternal-life with GOD.

(No-where in the Christian-bible, will you find GOD's command to "accept mormonism", for Eternal-life with GOD.)

Ran77 · May 3, 2010

sk8Joyful said:
(No-where in the Christian-bible, will you find GOD's command to "accept mormonism", for Eternal-life with GOD.)

Really? The "Christian" bible doesn't contain any commandments to accept the word of God in order to gain Eternal Life with the Father?

Wow. :o

Rescued One · May 3, 2010

To anyone reading this thread:
I think that when we start threads with passages of scripture, those who deem those verses to be the word of God and therefore sacred should be willing to correct our misunderstanding of them if we truly have a misunderstanding.

I pray for patience and understanding of fellow posters and hopefully refrain from criticizing a person's character or judging his/her intentions. God forgive us all when we are unkind to others.

mormonheretic · May 3, 2010

sk8Joyful said:
(No-where in the Christian-bible, will you find GOD's command to "accept mormonism", for Eternal-life with GOD.)

sk8joyful,

Since Mormonism teaches that it is a restoration of Christ's original teachings of the Bible, then accepting Mormonism is accepting Jesus teachings. If we can accept, know, and live Christ's teachings perfectly, Eternal Life should follow because we are following God. Following Mormonism is following the Bible. (Of course, many will disagree with that statement; nonetheless Mormons try to follow the Bible as closely as we can.)

mormonheretic · May 3, 2010

Phoebe Ann said:
To anyone reading this thread:
I think that when we start threads with passages of scripture, those who deem those verses to be the word of God and therefore sacred should be willing to correct our misunderstanding of them if we truly have a misunderstanding.

Softspoken gave an excellent correction of your misunderstanding. I have tried to do that as well.

I pray for patience and understanding of fellow posters and hopefully refrain from criticizing a person's character or judging his/her intentions. God forgive us all when we are unkind to others.

RufustheRed · May 3, 2010

mormonheretic said:
Yes, Rufus, that is correct.

Rufus, I have done that repeatedly, using Biblical verses see

I saw that, but I also saw that when she did that, you called it "Bible bashing." I thought it was ironic then and more so now.

mormonheretic said:
I feel she intentionally misrepresents our beliefs,

I disagree. Because you do not know HOW to respond does not necessarily supply a motive for you. Also, because you do not know HOW to respond, it appears that you feel that you know her motive. As you said, "You feel..." which indicates only a subjective opinion, not a reason to inflict the barrage of insults you just leveled at her.

Please if you could calm down and address only the OP, perhaps we can return to some semblance of peace.

Thank you!

mormonheretic said:
and it is because of this intentional misrepresentation that it is hard to effectively address her points. In addition, she avoids answering my tough questions, because it appears to me that she sees her hypocrisy, but doesn't want to admit it. I have a very hard time speaking with someone who intentionally misrepresents, because they seem dishonest. It almost seems to me like she is a disaffected former Mormon who has left the faith in bitterness, and is doing all in her power to show how evil Mormonism is. I don't feel she has any desire to be objective here.

Irrelevant to to the OP.

mormonheretic said:
Rufus, you responded to me on that thread,

I decided to give her another chance, precisely because of the post of yours I quoted above. She has twice avoided answering all my tough question in bold on this thread. I know why, because if she answers truthfully, it will undercut all her arguments (which is why I asked the questions.) She is not being fair to Mormons, and she knows it, all the while hiding behind distorted views of Mormonism. I have pointed out the distortions, but she says she is not "spinning" anything. I just can't have a real conversation with a dishonest person.

She seems more interesting in discussing distorted views of LDS beliefs. I really don't think a productive discussion can be had with her. She is not interested in discussion--she is interested in disinformation, and I don't think disinformation is an appropriate tactic "for the discussion of LDS and Mormon beliefs and doctrines."

'nuff said.

Thank you for responding to me, but I fear that we are in totally different camps. I feel that you need to find the posting rules (I can't remember the name of them) and do a serious review of them before your next rant, lest you find yourself in violation of the TOS.

Have a nice week, seriously.

Rufus

Rescued One · May 3, 2010

mormonheretic said:
I feel she intentionally misrepresents our beliefs, and it is because of this intentional misrepresentation that it is hard to effectively address her points. In addition, she avoids answering my tough questions, because it appears to me that she sees her hypocrisy, but doesn't want to admit it. I have a very hard time speaking with someone who intentionally misrepresents, because they seem dishonest. It almost seems to me like she is a disaffected former Mormon who has left the faith in bitterness, and is doing all in her power to show how evil Mormonism is. I don't feel she has any desire to be objective here.

I did not leave in bitterness. I'm actually grateful for several things I gained from being a member of such a conservative group.

Please tell everyone what misinformation is in the OP. Be specific. Did you not come here to defend and share about your faith?

mormonheretic said:
I decided to give her another chance, precisely because of the post of yours I quoted above. She has twice avoided answering all my tough question in bold on this thread. I know why, because if she answers truthfully, it will undercut all her arguments (which is why I asked the questions.) She is not being fair to Mormons, and she knows it, all the while hiding behind distorted views of Mormonism. I have pointed out the distortions, but she says she is not "spinning" anything. I just can't have a real conversation with a dishonest person.

Tell me what specific distorted views you think I have.

mormonheretic said:
She seems more interesting in discussing distorted views of LDS beliefs. I really don't think a productive discussion can be had with her. She is not interested in discussion--she is interested in disinformation, and I don't think disinformation is an appropriate tactic "for the discussion of LDS and Mormon beliefs and doctrines."

'nuff said.

Those are unkind comments. I'm sorry that you have a distorted view of me.

The topic of this thread should be important to those who are discussing Mormonism with your missionaries. Some of them will likely join your church.

As for my interest in posting here, I've answered that several times:

Phoebe Ann said:
I post because as a Latter-day Saint I was taught what Robert Millet said: "We never provide meat when milk will do." This saying was known among church members before Mr. Millet said it. This meant, "Don't share so much that you scare away potential converts." I think people deserve to know the teachings of Mormonism and I believe that God wants me to be totally honest, to not put a spin on it, and to correct those who might come barging in here with assumptions about Mormonism that are not true. I also believe that all our posts should be about teachings, not about individual forum members.

Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt...

And, hopefully, both LDS and I will learn more of what God wants people to know.

I never intended for my posts to make you so unhappy.

mormonheretic · May 3, 2010

Rufus,

Can you please summarize the OP for me? If I am mistaken in it's purpose, I'd be happy to comment on what you think the relevant points are.

Rescued One · May 3, 2010

mormonheretic said:
Rufus,

Can you please summarize the OP for me? If I am mistaken in it's purpose, I'd be happy to comment on what you think the relevant points are.

The OP explains the LDS view about those who reject the LDS message. It explains it from LDS scripture, not from any experiences I had. For some, it is difficult to understand that rejection of Mormonism should be such a serious matter. For others, it might very well serve as a warning to not reject the message that LDS missionaries present.

RufustheRed · May 3, 2010

mormonheretic said:
Rufus,

Can you please summarize the OP for me? If I am mistaken in it's purpose, I'd be happy to comment on what you think the relevant points are.

Sure

If you reject the LDS message...
Doctrine and Covenants 84 states:

74 Verily, verily, I say unto you, they who believe not on your words, and are not baptized in water in my name, for the remission of their sins, that they may receive the Holy Ghost, shall be damned, and shall not come into my Father’s kingdom where my Father and I am.
75 And this revelation unto you, and commandment, is in force from this very hour upon all the world, and the gospel is unto all who have not received it.
76 But, verily I say unto all those to whom the kingdom has been given—from you it must be preached unto them, that they shall repent of their former evil works; for they are to be upbraided for their evil hearts of unbelief, and your brethren in Zion for their rebellion against you at the time I sent you.
77 And again I say unto you, my friends, for from henceforth I shall call you friends, it is expedient that I give unto you this commandment, that ye become even as my friends in days when I was with them, traveling to preach the gospel in my power;
78 For I suffered them not to have purse or scrip, neither two coats.
79 Behold, I send you out to prove the world, and the laborer is worthy of his hire.
80 And any man that shall go and preach this gospel of the kingdom, and fail not to continue faithful in all things, shall not be weary in mind, neither darkened, neither in body, limb, nor joint; and a hair of his head shall not fall to the ground unnoticed. And they shall not go hungry, neither athirst.
81 Therefore, take ye no thought for the morrow, for what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, or wherewithal ye shall be clothed.
82 For, consider the lilies of the field, how they grow, they toil not, neither do they spin; and the kingdoms of the world, in all their glory, are not arrayed like one of these.
83 For your Father, who is in heaven, knoweth that you have need of all these things.
84 Therefore, let the morrow take thought for the things of itself.
85 Neither take ye thought beforehand what ye shall say; but treasure up in your minds continually the words of life, and it shall be given you in the very hour that portion that shall be meted unto every man.
86 Therefore, let no man among you, for this commandment is unto all the faithful who are called of God in the church unto the ministry, from this hour take purse or scrip, that goeth forth to proclaim this gospel of the kingdom.
87 Behold, I send you out to reprove the world of all their unrighteous deeds, and to teach them of a judgment which is to come.
88 And whoso receiveth you, there I will be also, for I will go before your face. I will be on your right hand and on your left, and my Spirit shall be in your hearts, and mine angels round about you, to bear you up.
89 Whoso receiveth you receiveth me; and the same will feed you, and clothe you, and give you money.
90 And he who feeds you, or clothes you, or gives you money, shall in nowise lose his reward.
91 And he that doeth not these things is not my disciple; by this you may know my disciples.
92 He that receiveth you not, go away from him alone by yourselves, and cleanse your feet even with water, pure water, whether in heat or in cold, and bear testimony of it unto your Father which is in heaven, and return not again unto that man.
93 And in whatsoever village or city ye enter, do likewise.
94 Nevertheless, search diligently and spare not; and wo unto that house, or that village or city that rejecteth you, or your words, or your testimony concerning me.
95 Wo, I say again, unto that house, or that village or city that rejecteth you, or your words, or your testimony of me;

Those who reject the LDS message here on earth seem to be in a lot of trouble.

And when is the last time that new converts gave the missionaries food, clothing and money (Whoso receiveth you receiveth me; and the same will feed you, and clothe you, and give you money)?

If we don't accept your missionaries into our house, we are under a whole bunch of "Wo"

Phoebe Ann calls it "a lot of trouble."

Now if you can you tell me how this is an example of " intentional misrepresentation?"

Are we reading different passages of your D & C?

Rufus

If you reject the LDS message...

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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