If you reject modern culture...

[Rationalt]

Heartbreaking story. Does it really draw the conclusion the OP is suggesting?

System always screws some people.It doesn't matter whether it is Old or New.

 

[seeking Christ]

That's very interesting that you were never exposed to it. I wonder if your circumstances would be a good test for my theory. I think people treated me poorly because I was always that kid who asked too many questions, kept to himself and started pointing things out that made people uncomfortable. It doesn't make you friends, fake friends yes but not real ones...and it turns everyone; youth and adult, against you.

We're kindred spirits; that describes my early childhood quite well. I don't think that every really went away. Instead, I learned who not to ask questions of, (primarily Dad) who I could trust to answer honestly even if she didn't know, (primarily my older Sister) and focused on developing my own talents. I didn't sequester myself socially nearly enough, and it took me too long to realize that so-called friends really weren't friends at all. No small factor is that said older Sister was a bra-burning feminist, who cleared the way of anyone who might oppress women before they ever had any influence on me. That still doesn't explain why I never encountered mysogeny like you did after I was in 5th grade, when she moved out of the house to start College.

I will now [finally] address the italicized point: To say that women's suffrage has ruined manliness and man-"power" is just....I don't know how to say it without being offensive.

Ok my sentiments agree, but I have to give place to what the OP has said, even though I don't think that restricting women's right to vote on certain issues is a solution. Even if we disregard the story reported by Phillis Shafly, (which might actually be truthful reporting?) there are lots of instances of courts ruling with gender bias, finding the man guilty for no other reason than he is the man in the situation. This is certainly a valid thing to discuss and on thread topic! I haven't seen it discussed much on this board, nor any other. And you and I obviously grew up learning to reject modern culture.

I think that rather than fighting gender bias with more gender bias, it might be better to attempt to remove gender bias, at least from court rulings? And more importantly, from the way law is enforced.

Though of course you are right when you say there is a shift of balance because there is a major shift, arguably one that is more fair to the gender that has been marginalized since the dawn of time. I work in the software engineering/IT industry and most of my bosses are women nowadays.

This is interesting because I just got done decrying gender bias, but notice I limited that to the application of law. In the workplace, I'm all for efficiency, productivity, exploiting resources and that primarily means people. If women have an advantage at specific tasks and they do, they should be given preferential treatment, not only re: hiring but also PAY. In caps because I have a bias that if you could compare the pay of these women in positions of authority, I fear we'd still find pay inequality. You're talking about a time period of hiring based on pay cuts, and while the hiring may have been done based on merit, part of that is what people are willing to work for.

I'm trying to make a contrast of social progress being made in the workplace re: equal rights for women, vs that having gone too far in the courts, and largely in the wake of the OJ Simpson trial.

Why the radical change then? Why feminism? My thoughts on the matter are simple: what happens when you systematically oppress a large group over a long period of time? They rebel. At least, that's how "bra burning" feminism is categorized; a very reactionary movement against a culture incredibly biased against women, I can see the solidarity and appeal in that and am not remotely surprised it continue to exist to this day.

Ok but the change was MUCH more complex than that! No doubt women attempted to make this same rebellion throughout much of history, but what allowed it to take hold in my lifetime? I pose that question to you because I think you'd find what you missed in the 2 decades before you were born interesting and useful, but developing that would probably detract from this thread.

As you probably know, the United States doesn't even have an amendment to our constitution saying that both genders are equal in value? Sort of undermines the idea of America as a progressive democracy, but I digress...

In short, this isn't a conspiracy here to undermine the OP's religion or belief system but rather a response to a belief system that is aggressive and demeaning to women.

And all of that still very much needs to be addressed! A big part of women gaining "more equality," (how's that for an oxymoron?) was the way language was viewed. It became important to recognize that masculine pronouns (men, mankind, all men are created equal) weren't gender specific, but gender neutral. This was a BIG DEAL while I was in elementary school. It changes the way our Constitution reads, the way the Bible reads, etc etc all throughout our culture. And then PC infected everything so it became improper to not write he/she or (s)he - which is clearly in poor taste and simply carrying things too far My point is there is yet much progress to be made ...

 

[fschmidt]

I think that rather than fighting gender bias with more gender bias, it might be better to attempt to remove gender bias, at least from court rulings? And more importantly, from the way law is enforced.

How exactly do you propose to do this? Every country that has women's suffrage has gender bias against men, the only possible exception being Japan where women still, to some degree, feel obligated to vote as their husband or father votes. I have given a concrete suggestion for solving the problem. What is yours?

No doubt women attempted to make this same rebellion throughout much of history, but what allowed it to take hold in my lifetime?

Not only did they attempt, but they succeeded. Feminism is a common trait of decadent, declining cultures. It clearly was a factor in the decline of the Roman Empire. In the Byzantine Empire under Justian, empress Theodora was a feminist monster with power. Procopius describes the situation in "The Secret History" as:

-----------------------------------------------
The ladies of the court at this time were nearly all of abandoned morals. They ran no risk in being faithless to their husbands, as the sin brought no penalty: even if caught in the act, they were unpunished, for all they had to do was to go to the Empress, claim the charge was not proven, and start a countersuit against their husbands. The latter, defeated without a trial, had to pay a fine of twice the dower, and were usually whipped and sent to prison; and the next time they saw their adulterous wives again, the ladies would be daintily entertaining their lovers more openly than ever. Indeed, many of the latter gained promotion and pay for their amorous services. After one such experience, most men who suffered these outrages from their wives preferred thereafter to be complaisant instead of being whipped, and gave them every liberty rather than seem to be spying on their affairs.
-----------------------------------------------

This should sound familiar.

 

[seeking Christ]

How exactly do you propose to do this? Every country that has women's suffrage has gender bias against men, the only possible exception being Japan where women still, to some degree, feel obligated to vote as their husband or father votes. I have given a concrete suggestion for solving the problem. What is yours?

Well I don't think you have given any concrete suggestion. You haven't said you would remove women's right to vote entirely, and I think you're aware that most in the Country would oppose that anyway. So what exactly are women not allowed to vote on?

 

[fschmidt]

Well I don't think you have given any concrete suggestion. You haven't said you would remove women's right to vote entirely, and I think you're aware that most in the Country would oppose that anyway. So what exactly are women not allowed to vote on?

My concrete political suggestion is, of course, impractical fantasy at this point. But it is still concrete. It is that men and women should never vote in the same election. There should be a government of men elected by men. Women should have an option either to submit to the government of men or to run their own government to govern themselves. The main thing is that women should never be allowed to impose their political will on men. If women want equality, they can have it in their own government. I suspect that women would actually have no interest in this because women don't actually want equality, what they want is to impose their will on men. Women have no interest in passing laws that only restrict their own behavior.

Now for the practical. Religion is the practical solution. A sound religion does not allow women to impose their will on men. Examples include the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, and Orthodox Judaism. Those who are repulsed by the abuses of feminism should be a member of such a religion. In my group in El Paso, if it ever grows in size, I will put my suggestion above into practice. Women in the group who want equality can organize their own subgroup for women.

 

[seashale76]

Now for the practical. Religion is the practical solution. A sound religion does not allow women to impose their will on men. Examples include the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, and Orthodox Judaism. Those who are repulsed by the abuses of feminism should be a member of such a religion. In my group in El Paso, if it ever grows in size, I will put my suggestion above into practice. Women in the group who want equality can organize their own subgroup for women.

You know- being an Eastern Orthodox Christian- I've never experienced men imposing their will on me. And, as a woman, I've never attempted to impose my will on men.

I just think you've got issues.

 

[seeking Christ]

being an Eastern Orthodox Christian- I've never experienced men imposing their will on me. And, as a woman, I've never attempted to impose my will on men.

That actually aligns perfectly with what he said.

I just think you've got issues.

Perhaps you've never encountered men who's lives were ruined by injustice at the hands of gender bias in our court system? I have.

 

[Zoness]

Seeking_Christ I didn't abandon response to your post, I'll get back to it eventually. I just remembered this thread existed.

 

[seeking Christ]

Well I forgot ^___^

 

[ash777]

I tried all the major religions. Islam doesn't work for me because I can't relate to the Quran. Judaism doesn't work for me either because I can't relate to the Talmud. What I really like is the Tanakh (Old Testament). No modern religions seems to take the Tanakh seriously. I just changed my religion here to "Other-Religion". But I have nothing against any religion as long as it doesn't advocate violating the moral principles of the Tanakh.

What about Messianic Judiasm? They follow old testament (not old testament law on sacrifices) and the new testament.

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Can you give any examples of what you dislike so vehemently about modern culture, and/or how you define "modernism/modernity"? The dictionary entry you quoted on your website did not really tell us anything about the concept as such, nor how you relate to it.

Aspects of modernity include (but are not limited to):
- Democratization and the end of monarchism/feudalism
- Industrialization and the decline of agrarian starvation economies
- Human rights and its resulting effects, such as the abolition of slavery, the ban on torture, and a worldwide trend to abolish the death penalty.
- The emancipation of women as equal citizens rather than the legal property of their husbands (or male relatives, if they happen to be unmarried)
- a separation of state and church, allowing for democratic pluralism and freedom of religion
- huge advances in communication technology, automation etc.

 

[fschmidt]

Can you give any examples of what you dislike so vehemently about modern culture, and/or how you define "modernism/modernity"? The dictionary entry you quoted on your website did not really tell us anything about the concept as such, nor how you relate to it.

I guess you just read the first post. I added another paragraph to it for people like you. It reads:

-------------------------------------------
Anyone wondering about what I have against modern culture probably doesn't belong on this website in the first place. If you read the other posts here, you will get the full picture. But for those wanting a quick summary, here is a list of adjectives describing modern culture: evil, immoral, shallow, fake, dishonest, untrustworthy, backstabbing, arrogant, self-righteous, inconsiderate, intolerant, closed-minded, hypocritical, anti-intellectual, vulgar, stupid, and obnoxious.
-------------------------------------------


My position on:

- Democratization and the end of monarchism/feudalism
for

- Industrialization and the decline of agrarian starvation economies
for

- Human rights and its resulting effects, such as the abolition of slavery, the ban on torture, and a worldwide trend to abolish the death penalty.
for

- The emancipation of women as equal citizens rather than the legal property of their husbands (or male relatives, if they happen to be unmarried)
emancipation - not applicable since women were never slaves
forced equality - against
independent legal property - for, supported by the Bible

- a separation of state and church, allowing for democratic pluralism and freedom of religion
for, but I consider Modernism to be a religion and modern government to be a Modernist theocracy in violation of the separation of state and church

- huge advances in communication technology, automation etc.
for

 

[fschmidt]

My previous post was deleted and I got this message:

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Original Post:
http://www.christianforums.com/t7712265-post64378213/#post64378213

I just want to post an update to this thread since the site that I linked to in my original post, "Act Biblically", is obsolete. I now have 2 sites, one for what I am for and one for what I am against.

Biblic Judaism

This describes what I am for, which is the original form of Judaism before it was corrupted by Rabbinic beliefs. The Karaites were discussed in this thread, and in fact I have decided to join them. I hope to move near to their only American synagogue early next year.

Anti-Modernism

This describes what I am against, which is modern culture. This site also has a number of posts that should be of interest to Christians.

If anyone wants to discuss any of this, I would prefer doing it on my sites because I was banned for several months on this forum for expressing my views. Since there is no free speech here, I would prefer avoiding any serious discussion here.

Warnings serve as a reminder to you of the forum's rules, which you are expected to understand and follow.

All the best,
Christian Forums

Dear Moderators,

[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] you and please ban me forever.

 

[Zoness]

lolololol mature

 

[MehGuy]

I wish modern culture was more liberal..