If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Jan001]

What if I'm poor, and I work all week to feed my family. Is it wrong to make house repairs on the Sabbath? Or to work in my garden, or mow the grass? What is God wanting from us on Sabbath? Is it to do nothing at all, or is it to refrain from doing evil? He mentions in Isaiah 58 that he wishes them not to exploit their laborers on Sabbath. Is it good or bad to find enjoyment in something that is not evil on the Sabbath? What if I have a hobby that I like to do, such as woodworking for example. Is it wrong to do that o the Sabbath?

Matthew 12:1 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

If there is truly no other time to do house repairs or other necessary tasks except for on Sunday, you can do them on Sunday. Each person needs to pray to the Lord concerning these types of things and then he should do what he believes his conscience is telling him to do.

 

[W2L]

Good, then follow their examples of refusing to eat unclean food (Acts 10:4), sabbath observance (Acts 13:14, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:2, Acts 18:4, Acts 18:11), feast keeping (Acts 18:21, Acts 20:6-16, Acts 27:9), circumcision (Acts 16:3), and not offending at any point of the law of Moses (Acts 25:8, Acts 28:17). And be ready to start offering sacrifices and offerings when the third temple is built (Acts 21:26, Acts 24:17), as well as going there to pray (Acts 3:1) and worship (Luke 24:53).

Lots of scripture there. None of those scriptures are commanding food restrictions or Sabbath day. If you notice, in many of them, it refers to Paul entering the temple to "reason" with the "Jews".

1 Co 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

 

[Jan001]

So in other words, anyone who doesn't follow Catholicism is a heathen and a tax collector?

Only Jesus can correctly judge a person's heart about his right or wrong understanding of what is truth. Only Jesus can judge a person's intentions. Only the leaders of the Church have been given the authority to excommunicate a person from fellowship.

1 Corinthians 5:1-5
It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3 For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment 4 in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. rsv​

 

[W2L]

If there is truly no other time to do house repairs or other necessary tasks except for on Sunday, you can do them on Sunday. Each person needs to pray to the Lord concerning these types of things and then he should do what he believes his conscience is telling him to do.

Sorry, I'm not buying the Sunday Sabbath tradition of Catholicism.

 

[Travis93]

Lots of scripture there. None of those scriptures are commanding food restrictions or Sabbath day. If you notice, in many of them, it refers to Paul entering the temple to "reason" with the "Jews".

1 Co 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

So you think Paul was just pretending to keep the law to trick the Jews into converting? Would it then be acceptable to become Quran observant to witness to Muslims?

I'm talking about following the example of the apostles as they continued to keep Torah throughout Acts, long after Jesus's death.

 

[W2L]

So you think Paul was just pretending to keep the law to trick the Jews into converting? Would it then be acceptable to become Quran observant to witness to Muslims?

I'm talking about following the example of the apostles as they continued to keep Torah throughout Acts, long after Jesus's death.

No he was not tricking them. He was trying to be an ambassador, I believe.

He was a Jew and that's why he lived like a Jew when with the Jews. He wouldn't live like a Muslim however because he says he was never without the Law of Christ. Muslims deny Christ is Gods son, so I'm sure he would not live that way.

 

[W2L]

Also, paul reasoned with the Jews via the scriptures, that Christ was the Savior. He coudnt do that with the Koran.

 

[Travis93]

No he was not tricking them. He was trying to be an ambassador, I believe.

He was a Jew and that's why he lived like a Jew when with the Jews. He wouldn't live like a Muslim however because he says he was never without the Law of Christ. Muslims deny Christ is Gods son, so I'm sure he would not live that way.

Paul told the gentile believers to follow him as an example (Philippians 3:17 and 1 Corinthians 11:1), so why not follow his example of law keeping? John told us to walk as Jesus walked (1 John 2:6) and Peter said to follow his example of not sinning (1 Peter 2:21-22) and we know Jesus kept the law, so why wouldn't we follow his example?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The only scripture that existed back then was the law and the prophets, and Paul told us it was all useful to learn how to live.

 

[Jan001]

When Christ said, "Upon this Rock", He was talking about the answer Peter gave when he said, "Thou art the Christ, the son of the living God". That's the Rock the church is built on, not Peter.

Jesus changed Simon's name to Rock/Peter/Cephas and then He said that He would build His Church upon this Rock/Peter/Cephas and He gave Peter/Rock/Cephas the keys of the kingdom of heaven. He did not give these keys to any other man. Peter means Rock. Cephas means Rock.

Prophecy:

John 1:41-42
He first found his brother Simon, and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which means Christ). 42 He brought him to Jesus. Jesus looked at him, and said, “So you are Simon the son of John? You shall be called Cephas” (which means Peter). rsv​

Fulfillment of Prophecy:

Matthew 16:17-19
And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” rsv
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Jesus built His Church upon the foundation of the apostles and also the prophet's who foretold His coming.

Ephesians 2:19-21
19 So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord; rsv
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[Jan001]

He never said to trust any human leader. He said not to.
He has a judgment for those who do.

1 Thessalonians 5:12-14
But we beseech you, brethren, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, 13 and to esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Be at peace among yourselves. 14 And we exhort you, brethren, admonish the idlers, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all. rsv

Hebrews 13:7-8, 17
Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith. 8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever. 17 Obey your leaders and submit to them; for they are keeping watch over your souls, as men who will have to give account. Let them do this joyfully, and not sadly, for that would be of no advantage to you. rsv

Philippians 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; rsv​

 

[W2L]

Paul told the gentile believers to follow him as an example (Philippians 3:17 and 1 Corinthians 11:1), so why not follow his example of law keeping? John told us to walk as Jesus walked (1 John 2:6) and Peter said to follow his example of not sinning (1 Peter 2:21-22) and we know Jesus kept the law, so why wouldn't we follow his example?

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The only scripture that existed back then was the law and the prophets, and Paul told us it was all useful to learn how to live.

If I was a Jew, and an apostle who was preaching to Jews, I would follow Paul's example in becoming a Jew. However, i am a gentile, not an apostle, and I live as a gentile. Paul did that when he was with gentiles. Look, we must try to understand the spirit not the letter.

 

[Jan001]

Jesus talks with His sheep. They know His Voice (Jesus says so). Directly. Not thru someone else who is opposed to Him.
He never tells the sheep to follow someone else who is opposed to Him.
Listening to someone else who repudiates Jesus is never a good idea.
Listening to someone else who directly disobeys Jesus is never a good idea.
Listening to someone else who directly opposes the bible is never a good idea.

We both read the same Scriptures.

Your understanding of what these Scriptures mean is not the same as my understanding of what they mean.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

He never said to trust any human leader. He said not to.
He has a judgment for those who do.

Try to find "trust" in anything you posted so far. It's not there.
Yet you have said or indicated in your posts you trust men. Thus, if you believe
Yhwh's Word, you put yourself under His curse.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We both read the same Scriptures.

Maybe. But you do something I don't do, and will never do, as it is directly contrary to Yhwh's Word and to Yeshua's Directions to us who are His disciples.

Your understanding of what these Scriptures mean is not the same as my understanding of what they mean.

As it is written, as Yeshua Himself says,
as Those Who Yhwh Breathed Scripture through,
no one can understand Scripture UNLESS the FATHER IN HEAVEN grants this.
And
He says very directly not to trust men, not to ever trust the flesh.
Trust Yhwh by faith in Yeshua(JESUS MESSIAH).
There is immediate direct access to those who go to JESUS,(NOT to men),
to HIS THRONE OF GRACE to receive help from HIM, as HE SAYS ALWAYS.

Since WHAT YHWH SAYS from HIS THRONE , what HE REVEALS, is different from what men who oppose HIS WORD say, and just because YHWH SAYS SO,
to trust those men brings on Yhwh's Curse, not a blessing.

Choose TODAY a BLESSING, not a curse:

Hebrews 4:16 KJV: Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of ...
biblehub.com/kjv/hebrews/4-16.htm
Bible Hub
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need. Darby Bible Translation

 

[Travis93]

If I was a Jew, and an apostle who was preaching to Jews, I would follow Paul's example in becoming a Jew. However, i am a gentile, not an apostle, and I live as a gentile. Paul did that when he was with gentiles. Look, we must try to understand the spirit not the letter.

Living as a gentile means living without the oral law of the Jews, not without God's own holy law defined in the Torah. Paul said he didn't break any point of the law in Acts 25:8 and Acts 28:17, and if living like a gentile means living without the law he'd be a hypocritical liar.

 

[Jan001]

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

1 Chronicles 16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;

Have 1000 generations passed since the giving of the law yet? I count about 50 from the law till Jesus according to his genealogy (Luke 3:23-33). Even if you go with a seriously small number of years per generation (maybe people giving birth right when they hit puberty), you still get over 10,000 years after Jesus the law would still be binding.

!000 is a symbolic number. It is not a literal exact number of 1000. In this example, 1000 generations simply means many, many generations.

Does God own the cattle on only one thousand hills on earth or does God own all the cattle on all the hills on earth?

God owns all the cattle on all the hills on earth and not just the cattle on a literal one thousand hills.

Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. rsv​

 

[Travis93]

!000 is a symbolic number. It is not a literal exact number of 1000. In this example, 1000 generations simply means many, many generations.

Does God own the cattle on only one thousand hills on earth or does God own all the cattle on all the hills on earth?

God owns all the cattle on all the hills on earth and not just the cattle on a literal one thousand hills.

Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is mine, the cattle on a thousand hills. rsv​

If 1000 is symbolic of anything, it would be symbolic of forever and everlasting.
1 Chronicles 16:17 And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,
Psalms 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psalms 119:160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
Psalms 111:7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.
Psalms 111:8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.
Psalms 19:7 The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple.
Psalms 19:8 The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psalms 19:9 The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

if living like a gentile means living without the law he'd be a hypocritical liar.

Slow down a little I think.
What is written (in Romans?)
about the gentiles who live without the Torah, yet obey Torah ? See?

Those gentiles who DON'T HAVE TORAH, yet they obey TORAH, (from their heart or conscience Yhwh Gave them) ,
are better off
than the Jews who HAVE TORAH, (even read it every day, or at least listen to it read every SABBATH all their lives)
but disobey TORAH.

As in "The letter of the TORAH kills, but the Spirit of TORAH gives life"..... (and leads us to Yeshua Messiah.) .

 

[BobRyan]

1 John 5
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Mark 7
7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments"

Rev 14:12 "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

If you want to obey the ministry of Moses which brought bondage and death, you can do this, .

Your opposition to the teaching of Christ in Mark 7 "noted".

But not all Christians will choose to be at war against the teaching of Christ as Paul points out in Romans 8:4-9

I do not oppose the teaching of Christ in Mark 7.

Then I welcome that news.

 

[Jan001]

Third temple will be built by Jesus himself, when he sets up his millennial kingdom. Read Ezekiel 40-Ezekiel 48, there's a third temple in prophesy that never got built. It's either a false prophesy or yet to come.
Zechariah 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:
Zechariah 6:13 Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
Malachi 3:3 And he (bearer of the covenant from Malachi 3:1) shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
Malachi 3:4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto the Lord, as in the days of old, and as in former years.

As far as the sacrifices, while they did do them in various places before the temple was built, it was forbidden to deviate afterward.
Deuteronomy 12:5 But unto the place which the Lord your God shall choose out of all your tribes to put his name there, even unto his habitation shall ye seek, and thither thou shalt come:
Deuteronomy 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks:

I repeat, it's impossible for us to do sacrifices properly today, it won't happen till the third temple.

Ezekiel 40-Ezekiel 48 is speaking of the Second Temple which was built after the Israelites returned to Israel after their exile. This temple was still in existence when Jesus was born. Jesus' perfect offering of Himself on the cross has made all animal sacrifices obsolete. It would be an insult to God for animal sacrifices to be re-instated in a new temple in Jerusalem.

Jesus does not need a third temple to be built in Jerusalem. After Jesus returns at His second coming, He will be the Christians' temple.

Revelation 21:22
And I saw no temple in the city, for its temple is the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb. rsv​