If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

Jan001 · Sep 4, 2016

BABerean2 said:
The God's Word version seems to be a translation that fits into the context of the passage.

If we put the emphasis on the beginning of the passage, it is a negative statement saying these things will no longer be present in the New Heavens and the New Earth.

Based on Isaiah chapter 11 it will be a return to life before the fall.

Isa 65:20 There will no longer be an infant who lives for only a few days or an old man who doesn't live a long life. Whoever lives to be a hundred years old will be thought of as young. Whoever dies before he is a hundred years old will be cursed as a sinner.
.

Isaiah 65 is apocalyptic literature. It is not meant to be literal.

17 For behold, I create new heavens
and a new earth;

and the former things shall not be remembered

or come into mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice for ever
in that which I create;

for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing,

and her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and be glad in my people;

no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping

and the cry of distress.
20 No more shall there be in it
an infant that lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,

for the child shall die a hundred years old,

and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed. rsv

There is no marriage after Jesus returns and therefore no children will be born. No one who experiences the new heavens and the new earth can possibly be literally cursed. There is no more death after Jesus returns except for the spiritual second death for those who are the goats. Those who are not approved for eternal life will experience the second death which is eternal condemnation.

Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. rsv

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 4, 2016

Jan001 said:
Isaiah 65 is apocalyptic literature. It is not meant to be literal.

17 For behold, I create new heavens
and a new earth;

and the former things shall not be remembered
or come into mind................

Apocalyptic simply mean an "unveiling/uncovering" in the NT.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/allusions-in-revelation-from-old-testament.7588850/

LittleLambofJesus said:
I find this person's view concerning the "allusions" found in the book of Revelation that are found in the Old Testament/Covenant rather fascinating.
Would anyone like to put down verses from Revelation and the verses from the OT/OC that are alluded to this? I think that would be fun. Thanks

THE SYMBOLISM IN BOOK OF REVELATION

One man studied and found 348 allusions (not illusions, Light) in Revelation from the Old Testament. You see the similarity in wording and the context mirrored in Revelation and the particular Old Testament story, and immediately can recognize the reference source! That's, IF you know the bible well enough to even notice that.

95 of the 348 plain references used in Revelation as taken from the Old Testament are repeated in Revelation.
That makes about 250 Old Testament passages are cited. How many chapters are in Revelation? 22. That makes about TEN OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES FOR EVERY CHAPTER!

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G602 matches the Greek (apokalypsis), which occurs 18 times in 18 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

Luke 2:32
A Light into an un-covering/apo-kaluyin <602> of Nations and glory of people of Thee Israel

John 1:3
All things thru Him became and apart-from Him became not-yet one-thing which has become.
4 In Him life was, and the life was the Light of the men.

Revelation 1:1
An un-covering/apo-kaluyiV <602> of Jesus Christ, which gives to him, the God, to show to His bond-servants, which-things is binding to be becoming in swiftness.
And He signifies commissioning thru the messenger of Him, to the bondservants of Him, John.

Daniel 12:1
`And at that time stand up doth Michael, the great head, who is standing up for the sons of thy people,
and there hath been a time of distress, such as hath not been since there hath been a nation till that time,
and at that time do thy people escape, every one who is found written in the scroll.

Reve 13:
8 and shall be worshipping to him all the ones dwelling upon the land of whom not has been written the name in the scroll of the Life of the Lamb, of the one having been slaughtered/slain from down-casting of world. [Daniel 12:1]

Kindgdom Bible Studies Lambs Book of Life Part 1
*SNIP*

........ Now, what is meant by this term THE BOOK OF THE LIFE OF THE LAMB? The wise man said, "...of the making of many books there is no end..." (Eccl. 12:12).
The book stores are filled to overflowing today with all types of books dealing with every aspect of earthly life. Even in the church world there are books setting forth every kind of viewpoint relating to God, the Bible, doctrine, Christian experience, and church order. However the subject material of most of these books largely contains a message of religious tradition and spiritual death..............

.

BABerean2 · Sep 4, 2016

Bob S said:
The second sentence seems to add clarification to the first one, and the third sentence blows the first sentence out of the water telling us there will still be sin in Heaven and people will die. I really do not understand your point. Lets discuss walking around dead bodies while we are at it.

Not meaning to offend in any way.

The point is that the verse cannot mean what most read it to mean, because you cannot have no weeping and death at the same time.

.

Lysimachus · Sep 4, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello Lysimachus.

The material presented in this post of yours, have you copied this from a book,
or is this your own handiwork?

Hi klutavid. Everything I wrote in that post is my own writing, except for the last portion I put in quotes with the source link given at the bottom. I have written many articles, and am an author and contributor for Adventist Defense League.

LittleLambofJesus · Sep 4, 2016

Lysimachus said:
Hi klutavid. Everything I wrote in that post is my own writing, except for the last portion I put in quotes with the source link given at the bottom.
I have written many articles, and am an author and contributor for Adventist Defense League.

Just went to that site. Very nice. How long have you been an SDA and what denomination were you before that [if any]?

http://adventist-defense-league.blogspot.com/
Adventist Defense League

...defending the truth while spreading the 3 Angels messages of Revelation 14...

Welcome to the Adventist Defense League. Across the internet many have taken it upon themselves to try and prove that Ellen G. White was a false prophetess, and that Adventism teaches error. Among the many accusations, there is one list we have spent much time investigating. It's a list compiled by critics Dirk Anderson and Robert K. Sanders, claiming that Ellen White contradicted the bible at least eight times. The following is our response to these allegations:

.

klutedavid · Sep 4, 2016

Lysimachus said:
Hi klutavid. Everything I wrote in that post is my own writing, except for the last portion I put in quotes with the source link given at the bottom. I have written many articles, and am an author and contributor for Adventist Defense League.

Hello Lysimachus.

Thanks for the response to my earlier question.

If you don't mind Lysimachus, how do you read the following.

Matthew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet,
stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)
16 Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the house top not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Bob S · Sep 5, 2016

BABerean2 said:
Not meaning to offend in any way.

The point is that the verse cannot mean what most read it to mean, because you cannot have no weeping and death at the same time.

.

Very true and that is what I am trying to explain to those who use Is66 to claim Sabbath in the new earth. If they are going to use verse 23 they must also use and explain verse 23 and the verses from chapter 65 that deal with the new earth mentioned there. No one wants to approach the other verses. How sincere is that? If they want us to believe that we must observe Sabbath then do so "splainin". (Eastern Tennessee lingo)

"23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

Bob S · Sep 5, 2016

Jan001 said:
Isaiah 65 is apocalyptic literature. It is not meant to be literal.

17 For behold, I create new heavens
and a new earth;

and the former things shall not be remembered
or come into mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice for ever
in that which I create;

for behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing,
and her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
and be glad in my people;

no more shall be heard in it the sound of weeping
and the cry of distress.
20 No more shall there be in it
an infant that lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not fill out his days,

for the child shall die a hundred years old,
and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed. rsv

There is no marriage after Jesus returns and therefore no children will be born. No one who experiences the new heavens and the new earth can possibly be literally cursed. There is no more death after Jesus returns except for the spiritual second death for those who are the goats. Those who are not approved for eternal life will experience the second death which is eternal condemnation.

Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. rsv

Who determines which is what?

True and Isaiah contradicts several thing we know from New Testament writings to be true. We know that the Sabbath has been abrogated. The New Testament has more than enough evidence to convict those who believe we are under old covenant ritual law. We know no children will be born because as you wrote there will be no marriage. We know there will be no sin in Heaven and we will live forever. How could one possibly hang their hat concerning the Sabbath being a Christian duty by quoting Is 66:22 when his other new earth verses contradicts the real truth?

Will all that stop those who cherry pick verses out of context? No, no and another no. Falsehood is not false for no reason.

Bob S · Sep 5, 2016

LittleLambofJesus said:
Just went to that site. Very nice. How long have you been an SDA and what denomination were you before that [if any]?

http://adventist-defense-league.blogspot.com/
Adventist Defense League

...defending the truth while spreading the 3 Angels messages of Revelation 14...

Welcome to the Adventist Defense League. Across the internet many have taken it upon themselves to try and prove that Ellen G. White was a false prophetess, and that Adventism teaches error. Among the many accusations, there is one list we have spent much time investigating. It's a list compiled by critics Dirk Anderson and Robert K. Sanders, claiming that Ellen White contradicted the bible at least eight times. The following is our response to these allegations:

.

SDA defense is full of holes. You may be proud of their seemingly accomplishments, but we who have studied the truth about Adventism know better. You are defending falsehood and accepting their twist is a very dangerous place to put all your eggs.

BABerean2 · Sep 5, 2016

LittleLambofJesus said:
Just went to that site. Very nice. How long have you been an SDA and what denomination were you before that [if any]?

http://adventist-defense-league.blogspot.com/
Adventist Defense League

...defending the truth while spreading the 3 Angels messages of Revelation 14...

Welcome to the Adventist Defense League. Across the internet many have taken it upon themselves to try and prove that Ellen G. White was a false prophetess, and that Adventism teaches error. Among the many accusations, there is one list we have spent much time investigating. It's a list compiled by critics Dirk Anderson and Robert K. Sanders, claiming that Ellen White contradicted the bible at least eight times. The following is our response to these allegations:

.

If you want to know about the Adventists, then go to their own website and look at how they started out.
If you start wrong, you will usually end up wrong.
A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

The page below comes from the estate of Ellen G. White.

Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

klutedavid · Sep 5, 2016

Hello all.

If one makes a claim, i.e., the Sabbath is binding on all Christians, then one
needs to justify that claim. One cannot merely infer that the Sabbath is binding
on all Christians, one needs to prove the Sabbath is binding on all, and from the
scripture.

The Christian faith is not established on inference, the Christian faith is based
on solid doctrine (truth).

Any church that claims it is the one and only true church, will be required to
strongly defend that claim. Silence is not an option.

BABerean2 · Sep 5, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello all.

If one makes a claim, i.e., the Sabbath is binding on all Christians, then one
needs to justify that claim. One cannot merely infer that the Sabbath is binding
on all Christians, one needs to prove the Sabbath is binding on all, and from the
scripture.

The Christian faith is not established on inference, the Christian faith is based
on solid doctrine (truth).

Any church that claims it is the one and only true church, will be required to
strongly defend that claim. Silence is not an option.

During the last few weeks I have come to understand that one of the greatest battles in the history of mankind is the battle between the Old Covenant of works and the New Covenant of Grace.

The Books of Galatians and Hebrews reveal the battle during the first century.

The Apostle Paul states his view of the Judaisers in the verse below.

Gal 5:12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

.

klutedavid · Sep 5, 2016

BABerean2 said:
During the last few weeks I have come to understand that one of the greatest battles in the history of mankind is the battle between the Old Covenant of works and the New Covenant of Grace.

The Books of Galatians and Hebrews reveal the battle during the first century.

The Apostle Paul states his view of the Judaisers in the verse below.

Gal 5:12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

.

Hello Berean.

Most certainly and I agree with you, a battle between inference and fact.

That battle between the Old Covenant of works and the New Covenant of Grace.
Is still taking place today, those under the law are under a curse.

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us.

Jan001 · Sep 6, 2016

LittleLambofJesus said:
Apocalyptic simply mean an "unveiling/uncovering" in the NT.

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/allusions-in-revelation-from-old-testament.7588850/

It also means, not necessarily in a literal sense, the events prophesied to happen at the end of the world. Isaiah 65 is not meant to be understood in a literal sense.

Apocalyptic
1. Relating to or predicting the end of the world, especially as described in the Bible or another religious text.

Jan001 · Sep 6, 2016

Bob S said:
Who determines which is what?

True and Isaiah contradicts several thing we know from New Testament writings to be true. We know that the Sabbath has been abrogated. The New Testament has more than enough evidence to convict those who believe we are under old covenant ritual law. We know no children will be born because as you wrote there will be no marriage. We know there will be no sin in Heaven and we will live forever. How could one possibly hang their hat concerning the Sabbath being a Christian duty by quoting Is 66:22 when his other new earth verses contradicts the real truth?

Will all that stop those who cherry pick verses out of context? No, no and another no. Falsehood is not false for no reason.

The first Church leaders and their successors, appointed by Jesus Christ, have determined the interpretations of their own Scriptures. That is why the oral tradition of the Church is necessary. The Church came first. The Church wrote the Scriptures as supplements to its oral teaching/preaching. None of the interpretations of the Scriptures may contradict the oral teaching/preaching which has been passed down through the Church for 2000 years. Romans 13:1, Luke 10:16

disciple1 · Sep 6, 2016

LittleLambofJesus said:
Just went to that site. Very nice. How long have you been an SDA and what denomination were you before that [if any]?

http://adventist-defense-league.blogspot.com/
Adventist Defense League

...defending the truth while spreading the 3 Angels messages of Revelation 14...

Welcome to the Adventist Defense League. Across the internet many have taken it upon themselves to try and prove that Ellen G. White was a false prophetess, and that Adventism teaches error. Among the many accusations, there is one list we have spent much time investigating. It's a list compiled by critics Dirk Anderson and Robert K. Sanders, claiming that Ellen White contradicted the bible at least eight times. The following is our response to these allegations:

.

Little lamb of Jesus Do you know what this is talking about.
Ezekiel 20
25 So I gave them other statutes that were not good and laws through which they could not live; 26 I defiled them through their gifts—the sacrifice of every firstborn—that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the Lord.’

bugkiller · Sep 6, 2016

Original Happy Camper said:
The ten commandments were written by the finger of Jesus.
Please explain this passage to me in light of your belief that the 7th day Sabbath is done away with.

No one has been able to support this claim in all the years I've been posting here. The following passage does not support your claim.

Isaiah 66:22-24King James Version (KJV)
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh

bugkiller

bugkiller · Sep 6, 2016

Original Happy Camper said:
Now I see why this earth is such a sinful place with this type of thinking, I can not keep the whole law so why try.
1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Take away the law then there is no sin.
Take away sin and there is no need for a Savior.
Take away the Savior and Jesus died on the cross for nothing.

Sounds like a teaching Satan would approve of.

So since you admit you can't keep the law, where does this leave you?

bugkiller

bugkiller · Sep 6, 2016

Original Happy Camper said:
"But you haven't learned the truth yet and may never, study the bible and pray maybe God will have mercy on you"
Sounds like you have judged me, are you usurping Jesus's position as our Judge? or are you clamming to be Jesus?

How is God going to judge us as righteous or unjust. What standard does he use?
Revelation 16:7
And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
Revelation 22:11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Don't know but these words of Jesus say I've already passed the judgment -

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Jn 5

bugkiller

bugkiller · Sep 6, 2016

klutedavid said:
Hello HappyCamper.

Thanks for your reply.

The pleasure is all mine, my work is to set people free, you don't need to thank me.

Whether the beast is here or not, the mark of the beast will be sunday worship.

Therefore it stands, that sunday worship is direct disobedience to this royal law.
Anyone who disobeys the commandments of Christ is condemned. You have
stated that it is Jesus plus the 'literal', ten commandments.

Sure you maintain that one can be forgiven, but willful and continued disobedience
to the sabbath commandment, results in destruction.

The Sabbath is the only commandment that reveals the Law Giver. You cannot really
know the law giver unless you are obedient to the sabbath.

The Sabbath is the Seal of the Living God. The unsealed are lost and forever.

To disobey Sabbath worship is to disobey what? 'The commandments of God'
(Revelation 14:12).

The name of your church is 'Sabbath adventists', the one and only true church.

Ellen G White, saw the sabbath commandment glowing in her vision.

God rested on the sabbath day in the account in Genesis.

SDA is blowing the sabbath trumpet very loudly.

Then you have a very real personal problem because you do not keep the Sabbath as commanded in Ex 20.

bugkiller

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