If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2016

BobRyan said:
In the Bible God says "There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4

This Sabbath rest which remains is for the faithful Christians and it is perpetual and it occurs for each faithful Christian after he dies.

Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord henceforth.” “Blessed indeed,” says the Spirit, “that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!” rsv

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2016

bugkiller said:
Interesting that circumcision supersedes the Sabbath in requirement.

bugkiller

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 30, 2016

Jan001 said:
A person may observe a personal sabbath/rest on any day of the week if he so chooses

This has nothing to do with the day that Yhwh set apart Himself, in the beginning,
nor does Jesus ever tell His disciples to observe a personal sabbath/rest on any other day.
Jesus tells His disciples no such thing, ever.

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2016

Bob S said:
Great post Jan. There is only one part that I question and that is: "The Sabbath marked the end of the physical creation of the universe." There is no indication that the rest God had on the day after creation was a Sabbath for mankind nor that it continued weekly. I know you didn't write that it did, but I want to clarify that fact.

I agree with you. God did not mandate a Sabbath rest for all mankind. He did mandate a Sabbath rest for the stiff-necked and rebellious Israelites. Jesus never mandated the Saturday Sabbath for His followers. The Saturday Sabbath was passing away along with the written Law of Moses which was carved on stone.

Praise God! We Christians are under the Law of Liberty of God and we are not under the oppressive written Law of Moses carved on stone.

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2016

Dkh587 said:
This is a flat-out lie. Please provide scripture, and not "historical facts" that are not scripture.

It is in the oral teachings of the apostles which were passed down throughout the ages. We are commanded to obey both the written and the oral teachings of the apostles.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. rsv

John 21:25
But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. rsv

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 30, 2016

Jan001 said:
It is in the oral teachings of the apostles which were handed down throughout the ages. We are commanded to obey both the written and the oral teachings of the apostles.

That was true then. Completely in Harmony with All Yhwh's Torah. (as they knew then).
Since man CHANGED the oral teachings, corrupted them, made them OPPOSED TO JESUS, made them OPPOSED TO TORAH,
that no longer holds true
of what is called "the oral teachings". No matter what anyone says, Yhwh says never accept what men say if they don't line up with Torah.
By disobeying Yhwh, that's how men came up with so much corruption not to be believed.

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
This has nothing to do with the day that Yhwh set apart Himself, in the beginning,
nor does Jesus ever tell His disciples to observe a personal sabbath/rest on any other day.
Jesus tells His disciples no such thing, ever.

The apostle Paul said the following.

Romans 14:4-6
Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. He also who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God; while he who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God. rsv

You can keep a personal sabbath rest on each and every Saturday if you want to do this.

But, it is still historical fact that the Christians gathered on the first day of the week for their public worship.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 30, 2016

Jan001 said:
But, it is still historical fact that the Christians gathered on the first day of the week for their public worship.

Billions upon billions of people have been completely deceived by "historical facts"
most especially
when those "facts" contradict Scripture.

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2016

BobRyan said:
Wouldn't it be nice if you had even one text to prove your statement true? As if the bible writers themselves intended to tell of such a fact?

Imagine NT writers - the Apostles - the church leadership introducing "week-day-1 as the Lord's day" in the actual Bible!!

Imagine NT writers -- the Apostles - introducing the "we worship every week-day-1 because it is the Lord's Day" in the actual Bible!

Imagine NT writers saying "we transferred the binding authority and solemnity of the Sabbath Commandment - the seventh-day of the week... to week-day-1 because we think week-day-1 should be called the Lord's Day" --- in the actual Bible!!

Why not imagine instead the logical conclusion that all Christians already knew that they were to meet together on each first day of the week and so there was no need for any of these letter writers to take the time or use the space in their letters to remind their flocks to meet together on the first day of the week.

Hebrews 10:19-26
Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the sanctuary by the blood of Jesus, 20 by the new and living way which he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, 21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful; 24 and let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, 25 not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. 26 For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. rsv

Travis93 · Jul 30, 2016

Jan001 said:
It is in the oral teachings of the apostles which were passed down throughout the ages. We are commanded to obey both the written and the oral teachings of the apostles.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. rsv

John 21:25
But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. rsv

And how is that any different from the pharisees with their tradition of the elders Jesus rebuked over and over? If you accept oral tradition from the church, why not oral tradition from the rabbis that they claim was passed along from Moses alongside the written Torah? If you open the door to unwritten oral teachings can you even be sure Jesus was right in condemning the pharisees?

Bob S said:
2 Corinthians 3:7-11New International Version (NIV)
The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death (the 10 commandments), which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit(Comforter) be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory(temporary) came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

So Travis, are you sure You really want to write that Paul was false prophet? The 10 commandments were temporary laws given only to Israel. When Israel broke the covenant relationship with God of course the covenant with all its requirements were dissolved. AS you can plainly see the 10 commandments, which were the guide for Israel, have been replaced with Jesus' gift, the Holy Spirit.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Sure, if Paul think he can change the law I will readily accept he's a false prophet. I try to paint him in a pro-law way, saying he's only speaking against the oral law of the pharisees, but if he really does go against God's actual law I have no choice but to reject him based on Deuteronomy 13:1-5. There's numerous problems with Paul, look here.
http://www.problemswithpaul.com/

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 30, 2016

Jan001 said:
Why not imagine instead the logical conclusion that all Christians already knew that they were to meet together on each first day of the week and so there was no need for any of these letter writers to take the time or use the space in their letters to remind their flocks to meet together on the first day of the week.

Why not?
Why not indeed.
Because it (the whole religious system) is contradictory to Scripture.
i.e. it is not in Harmony with Jesus Life, Purpose, Practice, Salvation, or Plan.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 30, 2016

Travis93 said:
Sure, if Paul think he can change the law I will readily accept he's a false prophet. I try to paint him in a pro-law way, saying he's only speaking against the oral law of the pharisees, but if he really does go against God's actual law I have no choice but to reject him based on Deuteronomy 13:1-5.

Yet Paul as we know was called and chosen by Yhwh,
and personally taught by Yeshua.

Later, however, came men who did 'change the law' (and the days) - willfully and foolishly being pawns of the prince of the power of the air (the devil).
This
was not unexpected. Yhwh had foretold it, and it happened exactly as Yhwh said .

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
That was true then. Completely in Harmony with All Yhwh's Torah. (as they knew then).
Since man CHANGED the oral teachings, corrupted them, made them OPPOSED TO JESUS, made them OPPOSED TO TORAH,
that no longer holds true
of what is called "the oral teachings". No matter what anyone says, Yhwh says never accept what men say if they don't line up with Torah.
By disobeying Yhwh, that's how men came up with so much corruption not to be believed.

So then, you believe Jesus is a liar? That He is not able to keep His Church from teaching error?

Fact: Jesus' one Church, the one that Jesus founded upon Peter, Jesus promised that nothing would ever prevail against it and so this one Church cannot possibly teach error. Matthew 16:13-20

John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. rsv

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 30, 2016

Jan001 said:
So then, you believe Jesus is a liar? That He is not able to keep His Church from teaching error?

Who is it who departed from God's Word ?
hint:not Jesus.
Who is it who made the (false) claim to be His Church ?
See how easy that is to resolve ?
Now then, why would a false church claim to be His Church, and teach error ? hmmmm.....
Good question.

Go back to Scripture. Stay away from any "Church" that claims to be "His" but contradicts Scripture.

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Billions upon billions of people have been completely deceived by "historical facts"
most especially
when those "facts" contradict Scripture.

But not Jesus' one Church which He founded upon Peter and His successors. Peter and his successors are given they keys of the kingdom of God. God prevents this one Church with Peter and his successors as its head from teaching error regarding faith and morals.

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 30, 2016

Jan001 said:
But not Jesus' one Church which He founded upon Peter and His successors. Peter and his successors are given they keys of the kingdom of God. God prevents this one Church with Peter and his successors as its head from teaching error regarding faith and morals.

Yes. You were taught this.
Now,
or actually later,
if you are able to check everything in Scripture, as Yhwh says to,
and see why this so-called error-free church
is full of errors
directly contrary to Scripture,
perhaps something good will happen ?
Here are some people from the "error-free" church
to help >
http://www.reachingcatholics.org/rock.html
(yes, catholics reaching catholics)

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Why not?
Why not indeed.
Because it (the whole religious system) is contradictory to Scripture.
i.e. it is not in Harmony with Jesus Life, Purpose, Practice, Salvation, or Plan.

This is your own opinion based upon your own interpretations of the Scriptures. Your opinions do not match the teachings of the apostles and their successors.

I will continue to be faithful to these faithful men's teachings instead of to some other persons' different, man-made "gospel."

2 Timothy 2:2
and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. rsv Luke 10:16

Jan001 · Jul 30, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Yes. You were taught this.
Now,
or actually later,
if you are able to check everything in Scripture, as Yhwh says to,
and see why this so-called error-free church
is full of errors
directly contrary to Scripture,
perhaps something good will happen ?
Here are some people from the "error-free" church
to help >
http://www.reachingcatholics.org/rock.html
(yes, catholics reaching catholics)

So then, you believe that Jesus is an impotent god who is unable to keep His promises?

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 30, 2016

Jan001 said:
This is your own opinion based upon your own interpretations of the Scriptures. Your opinions do not match the teachings of the apostles and their successors.

I will continue to be faithful to these faithful men's teachings instead of to some other persons' different, man-made "gospel."

Jesus does not allow my opinion.
He warns that everyone who trusts "faithful men's teachings" that contradict Scripture
they are cursed, not blessed.
Turn to Jesus to learn the Truth from God's Word.
Not from men.
Blessing, learn from Jesus;
or curse, trusting flesh(men).

yeshuaslavejeff · Jul 30, 2016

Jan001 said:
So then, you believe that Jesus is an impotent god who is unable to keep His promises?

As you said yourself,

Jan001 said:
I will continue to be faithful to these faithful men's teachings

you chose to trust men who failed* and lied*.(according to Scripture).

I trust Jesus, Who is Trustworthy.

*When any man's words/ teachings contradict Scripture,
even Paul said if it was himself or an angel,
don't accept them.
So Scripture is the Standard Yhwh Himself gave us to judge all things by.
NOT any man's teachings,
ESPECIALLY when man's teachings contradict Yhwh Himself.
As many of man's teachings contradict Yhwh Himself,
those men cannot be accepted, nor their teachings,
no matter if even the whole world is deceived (as it is).

If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

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