IF you found out that the bibble is wrong

Hidden in Christ · Oct 10, 2003

What would be the greater risk--believing God's Word and receiving Christ and living a wonderful life on earth filled with joy and peace and then die and find out there's nothing more after this life, or to let your skepticism cause you to refuse to believe in the precious, kind forgiving Lord Jesus and then die and find out it was all true, and heaven and hell are real?

Gabrielle · Oct 10, 2003

Ryoko Ozaki said:
I see.... However, if us Buddhists are right you'll just live another life as something depending on your Karma and desires, therefore clinging to this world yet again.

Hi Ryoko,

That doesn't sound so terrible, either.

God Bless- Gabrielle

Pete Harcoff · Oct 10, 2003

Hidden in Christ said:
What would be the greater risk--believing God's Word and receiving Christ and living a wonderful life on earth filled with joy and peace and then die and find out there's nothing more after this life, or to let your skepticism cause you to refuse to believe in the precious, kind forgiving Lord Jesus and then die and find out it was all true, and heaven and hell are real?

That's Pascal's Wager. But it's flawed because it assumes there are only two options: Christianity or atheism.

But if you die and it turns out Islam is correct... well, you'd better hope Islam isn't right. The Qu'ran promises not-so-nice things for those who worship false religions.

Ryoko Ozaki · Oct 10, 2003

Yup, Pacal's Wager is leaving out all of the other religions in the world.

I guess it doesn't sound bad but this world's in such a fix that it might not be so great.

Hidden in Christ · Oct 11, 2003

Pete Harcoff said:
That's Pascal's Wager. But it's flawed because it assumes there are only two options: Christianity or atheism.

But if you die and it turns out Islam is correct... well, you'd better hope Islam isn't right. The Qu'ran promises not-so-nice things for those who worship false religions.

Well
Well, answer me this question--You may know something I don't know--does any other religion promise a worse fate, or even a fate as bad, for those who do not follow its beliefs as a never-ending sentence of punishment and anguish? Luke 16 tells us that those who are in hell cannot even obtain so much relief as a single drop of water to cool their tongues.

Pete Harcoff · Oct 11, 2003

Hidden in Christ said:
Well
Well, answer me this question--You may know something I don't know--does any other religion promise a worse fate, or even a fate as bad, for those who do not follow its beliefs as a never-ending sentence of punishment and anguish? Luke 16 tells us that those who are in hell cannot even obtain so much relief as a single drop of water to cool their tongues.

Yes, Islam. It promises eternal hellfire for non-believers.

But I don't think eternal punishment is much of a selling point for either religion...

ReNé4Him · Oct 11, 2003

you know... it's funny coz...i don't understand what reason God has to lie to us in the first place.
Why in the world would God want to decieve the ppl He created and loves? What, in the Bible, seems false to you? Are you saying that you can believe that witchcraft and satanism exists and yet you doubt a Omni-everything God? Where is your faith? Blessed is he who has not seen and yet believes! have you forgotten the reason WHY you dedicated your life to Christ in the first place? have you Forgotten WHY you accepted Him as your personal Savior? Forget the Promises, forget the rewards... you have a God who loves you and protects you and is proud of who you are... Pls do not disappoint Him by calling Him a Liar.

HadouKen24 · Oct 11, 2003

No one's answer the question yet. . . It's a hypothetical, folks, no one is saying that it would actually happen. (O'course, there're probably a few people around who'd say it's already happened, but. . .) The question is "What would you do?"

Heck, if it could be proven that everything in the Bible was wrong. . . and I mean everything, not just a few prophecies or historical bits and stuff. . .

I'd laugh at myself for being such a fool and convert to Buddhism.

But that's just me.

Ryoko Ozaki · Oct 11, 2003

Hidden in Christ said:
Well
Well, answer me this question--You may know something I don't know--does any other religion promise a worse fate, or even a fate as bad, for those who do not follow its beliefs as a never-ending sentence of punishment and anguish? Luke 16 tells us that those who are in hell cannot even obtain so much relief as a single drop of water to cool their tongues.

Well at least you admit that they use scare tactics to get people to believe in God and the stuff in the Bible. Which is a reason that a belief in God can be so strongly formed in one's mind, that is if that mind is controling you and you're not controling it.

Hidden in Christ · Oct 11, 2003

Pete Harcoff said:
Yes, Islam. It promises eternal hellfire for non-believers.

But I don't think eternal punishment is much of a selling point for either religion...

Hmm...I wasn't aware that that was a teaching of Islam. I suppose I should research more.

Well, we've come to the conclusion that Islam promises a fate just as bad as Christianity (if what you said is accurate). Perhaps now we should look at the benefits of being a believer in Islam in this life and in the life to come. Do they teach that humans can have an all powerful God living in their souls in the person of the Holy Spirit, who produces supernatural joy, peace and love? Do they teach that the love of God is so powerful that it led Him to send His only Son to live, die and be raised from the dead that our sins might be forgiven? Do they teach that God hears and answers the prayers of ordinary people? I'll leave it at that and let someone else pick up the discussion.

Hidden in Christ · Oct 11, 2003

Ryoko Ozaki said:
Well at least you admit that they use scare tactics to get people to believe in God and the stuff in the Bible. Which is a reason that a belief in God can be so strongly formed in one's mind, that is if that mind is controling you and you're not controling it.

Friend, this is not about scare tactics. It's about examining the rewards and consequences of certain beliefs. It would be foolish to adopt a belief system without considering these things. By the way, it was not fear that motivated me to become a Christian. It was the love of God. If I had looked at my condition as a sinful human being and at my impending doom only, I would have grown to despair so much that I could have never had the faith to believe that there was hope for me. Only when I realized that God loved me enough to provide a way of salvation for me did I receive Him. Perfect love casts out fear.

What would you say are the rewards of the belief system you have chosen and the consequences for not choosing those beliefs?

Ryoko Ozaki · Oct 11, 2003

Buddhism woke me up into working to make my Karma good and in that case, become a better person. I don't need God, a god, or the threat of eternal punishment to become a good person, be happy, or feel loved.

There are not really any consequences for not choosing the beliefs that I have because you don't need them. There are small consequences I suppose, but nothing that involves eternal damnation. The benefits are that I become a better person and become happier, and in the end I possibly reach Nirvanna and can stop living in this world due to the craving cycle.

radorth · Oct 11, 2003

it was not fear that motivated me to become a Christian.If I had looked at my condition as a sinful human being and at my impending doom only, I would have grown to despair so much that I could have never had the faith to believe that there was hope for me.

There it is.

Yes fear was useless and would have only made us the more hopeless. Those who humble themselves most and admit the most sin find the grace, reality and power of God almost overwhelming. No proud person has ever come to God, nor can they ever know him.

I don't need God, a god, or the threat of eternal punishment to become a good person, be happy, or feel loved.

Yeah all you need is enough good works to make you feel worthy. Ever feel any pride over your doings, BTW?

Rad

radorth · Oct 11, 2003

That's Pascal's Wager. But it's flawed because it assumes there are only two options: Christianity or atheism.

Well actually it's flawed because your heart has to be in it. A holy God doesn't leave much room for self-serving negotiation without true repentance (although he invites us to reason with him).

I think if you are truly seeking God, but were never exposed to the truths of Christianity, God will cut you slack in judgement. An Arab in the Middle east seeing a nuclear bomb go off 50 miles away, who repented and cried from his heart to Allah might well be saved.

Rad

Ryoko Ozaki · Oct 11, 2003

Rad, my selfless acts make me a lot happier but as for me feeling pride, that's sort of like I'm doing it to feed my ego which I do not do.

Hidden in Christ · Oct 11, 2003

Ryoko Ozaki said:
Buddhism woke me up into working to make my Karma good and in that case, become a better person. I don't need God, a god, or the threat of eternal punishment to become a good person, be happy, or feel loved.

There are not really any consequences for not choosing the beliefs that I have because you don't need them. There are small consequences I suppose, but nothing that involves eternal damnation. The benefits are that I become a better person and become happier, and in the end I possibly reach Nirvanna and can stop living in this world due to the craving cycle.

Do you understand the Christian viewpoint of being a good person, being happy and feeling loved? Does your religion accept people who society views as useless--like alcoholics, prostitutes and drug addicts--and transform their lives in such a way that they give up their destructive habits, regain their self worth, hold down a job, provide for their family and help the needy? God's forgiveness and love can motivate even the worst people to become good. Also does your religion give you a sense of joy and peace that remains even when you experience extreme hardship or tragedy in your life? Happiness is something anyone can have when circumstances of life are good. And do you feel such a strong sense of being loved that you know you can be completely honest with who you are and still feel completely secure?

Ryoko Ozaki · Oct 11, 2003

Hidden in Christ, I do understand the Christian standpoint, but do not believe in God or any gods/goddesses. Therefore, my love comes from the people of the world that like the things I do for them.

Buddhism teaches to radiate loving-kindness to all beings, which includes alcholics, prostitutes, drug adicts, and etc. We do try to help them but we don't try to convert them, since the idea of Buddhism is to become selfless and not expect anything in return, even a convert.

If we experience a hardship, the control of our mind we get through meditation can usually lock away our emotions and if someone passes away that we love, we see it as a natural part of the reality of existance, and commemorate but not mourn so that we get sad.

However, if we do slip deep into Dukkha and begin to suffer, the eight fold path is the way out.

Buddhism teaches that suffering is a reality, but if we don't let it bother us a lot then happiness will be easy to achieve. Yes, I feel very secure and am definately being honest with myself.

radorth · Oct 11, 2003

Rad, my selfless acts make me a lot happier but as for me feeling pride, that's sort of like I'm doing it to feed my ego which I do not do.

That's fine Ryoko, but I doubt you are invulnerable to self-righteousness. Nobody is. And I suspect that you could not believe yourself of any special worth without your good works. You have to work off your bad karma to have any real hope. Only Christ teaches us that we have intrinsic worth, and he alone can substitute his righteousness for yours, and thus free you from any self-righteousness.

There is only so much righteousness you can glean from thin air. How do you KNOW it will be enough?

Rad

jonah · Oct 11, 2003

I confess that I haven't read EVERY single post before commenting so if it a repeat ..sorry!

I've been a Christian my whole life. And it is the truth. But for arguement sake if I died and it wasn't THE way I wouldn't worry about it. Here is the reason why...ALL other faiths in the world provide SOME way for everyone to get to 'it' ie. heaven. But Christianity is extremely exclusive. Jesus accepts no other god but Himself, and desires to share people with no other. But other religions do accept some kind of clause for people. Take the buddist (hope this is ok Ryoko..please feel free to comment is there not SOME way a non buddist could EVENTUALY gain nirvana? I read a former Buddist expain the Buddism this way....if you were in a boat and you fell out. How would you be rescued? Budda would give you a 'How To' book whereas Jesus would reach out His hand and say "trust Me".
We could sit and go through each and every religion and with certainty you could find a way...but no so in the Bible. You either accept Jesus as the Messiah...or you don't .

Ryoko Ozaki · Oct 11, 2003

Yes Jonah, eventually you are able to reach Nirvana because the Buddha taught that nothing is without change, not even death. So in another life you would be able to reach Nirvana.

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