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If you could amend the Constitution in one way...

ThatRobGuy

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meh. Deficit spending isn't inherently a bad thing.

Correct, it isn't inherently bad...unless it's being done without any sort of plan to ever pay it down...which is the situation we're in now.
 
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NightHawkeye

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I'd opt for allowing removal from office for medical/senility reasons. Sooner or later this is going to be a significant problem with the court system. Supreme Court the headline maker, but significant at all appointed for life or long terms judges.
Mandatory retirement for judges ...

An interesting proposition. How about we put in term limits for judges as well. The current appointment for life system is ridiculous. One 12-year term for supreme court justices sounds about right. That essentially ensures that the opposition party gets to appoint the replacement. It's also a long enough time period that most appointees would be near retirement age when their term is up (according to Social Security) ... effectively "lifetime" for most professions.
 
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NightHawkeye

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I don’t think the 10 year thing is a good idea. First of all, everyone is calling for term limits. That sounds good in practice but…

What is going to keep a Congress that is on its last year from doing an insane budget tripling the size of the government?
Terms would be staggered ... thus likely preventing the problem you mention. Term limits as short as 8 years would result in 25% of the House of Representatives leaving at the end of every session. The turn-over could be higher, of course, if voters are greatly dissatisfied, but that is also true now.

The Senate is different due to the 6-year terms there. A good limit would seem to be two terms, i.e., 12 years. That way roughly 1/6 of the Senate would stand for re-election every two years, thus making it a little more stable than the House.
 
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The Barbarian

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I second the motion on Gerrymandering. I would require that all redistricting be done by a bipartisan panel that would have to use specific guidelines as to the creation of districts, and would require a legal process to check the results.

The great divide in American politics is largely the result of creating so many safe districts. It leads to extremism on the right and on the left, and it encourages corruption and abuse of power.
 
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NightHawkeye

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Many on the far-right insist that most forms of gun control are "making law abiding citizens jump through hoops to exercise something that's supposed to be a constitutional right" (which I would agree with them on many of those things), yet...voting is also a constitutional right but they seem to have no problem with making people jump through hoops on that.
Gonna disagree with you on this one, Rob.

Requiring ID to vote is not "jumping through hoops" ... not even close.
 
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The Barbarian

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Requiring ID to vote is not "jumping through hoops" ... not even close.

I'd be great with making photo ID required, but I'd put the burden on the state to make sure every eligible person had been issued a photo ID for free, with no hoops to jump through to get the ID.

Granted, it would defeat the whole point of ID laws if every eligible voter was able to get an ID without cost or having to take off work, but it would stop that one in 12 million people who vote illegally.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Congressional term limits.

"No person shall serve in the United States Senate and/or House of Representatives for more than a combined total of twelve (12) years."
 
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NightHawkeye

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FanthatSpark

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Hhmm. How about under article 5 where it states only 1 amendment can be addressed by the 34 state majority under article 5 empowerment, to, unlimited amendments can be addressed? This would streamline the 8 years to ....

Thats the problem in real time. We can not come to a 34 state majority because we can not agree on this very same thing in this thread in real political by state politics to come to majorities. So, lets change the amendment that limits the one amendment to unlimited so we can get that constitution back in real time.

There is a solution to all the great amendments here-in if we look at what holds all of these being heard at one time and change that firstly, right?
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Gonna disagree with you on this one, Rob.

Requiring ID to vote is not "jumping through hoops" ... not even close.

If you don't have a driver's license (because you don't have a car and don't drive, then it would be...you have to take a day off to go to the DMV, and find someone who's willing to take time away from their job to give you a ride there or pay for public transportation, then pay $30 to the DMV for a photo ID, then I would call that jumping through some hoops.

Now, if the state were willing to make ID's (or passports) free, and they would allow you to mail in a pic and then mail you your ID, then I'd be inclined to agree with you.

If making you find a ride to the DMV on a workday and charging you $30 (along with being open only during the hours when most people are at work) isn't jumping through hoops, then one could also fairly say that making a person wait for 5 minutes while they call your information into NICS when buying a gun isn't jumping through hoops either...

People have a huge double standard on this topic (on both sides of the fence).

The show "The Newsroom" hit the nail on the head when they did their bit on voter ID laws:

If a new law were passed tomorrow that stated that in order to purchase a gun, you had to make a trip to the office of a government agency, that's only open from 9-5 Mon thru Fri (and maybe a few Saturday morning hours if you're lucky), and pay them $30 for a Gun Purchasing ID, republicans would be rather hostile toward the idea (as would I).

...and let's be honest, the video is absolutely right. The republican governors aren't the least bit worried about the voter fraud aspect, it's simply a way to weed out certain demographics that they know don't tend to vote republican.

Imagine this scenario...let's say a state with a liberal leaning governor and legislature was having a vote on planned parenthood (or something of the like), and they voted in a special law that stated "all voting on abortion related matters will only be done on Sunday mornings from 9am-11:30am" ...it'd be pretty transparent and evident that they're just trying a sneaky tactic to keep a group (that they know isn't going to vote their away) out of the equation by holding a vote at a time when most of them are diligent about going to church.


I guess I can simply ask you this question in another way...
Voting is a right, owning a gun is a right...why should it be harder to vote than to buy a gun? They're both rights, correct? Given that they're both constitutional rights, shouldn't they both come with the ability to exercised with the same level of ease?
 
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NightHawkeye

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If you don't have a driver's license (because you don't have a car and don't drive, then it would be...you have to take a day off to go to the DMV, and find someone who's willing to take time away from their job to give you a ride there or pay for public transportation, then pay $30 to the DMV for a photo ID, then I would call that jumping through some hoops.
To be honest, I haven't even seen a gun transaction in years but what I remember involved both paperwork and waiting ... so I'm really still not seeing an equivalence.

Of course, maybe buying a gun has gotten a lot easier ... seems unlikely though.
Now, if the state were willing to make ID's (or passports) free, and they would allow you to mail in a pic and then mail you your ID, then I'd be inclined to agree with you.
No real argument from me on that since sending in photos is good enough for Passports.
If making you find a ride to the DMV on a workday and charging you $30 (along with being open only during the hours when most people are at work) isn't jumping through hoops, then one could also fairly say that making a person wait for 5 minutes while they call your information into NICS when buying a gun isn't jumping through hoops either...

People have a huge double standard on this topic (on both sides of the fence).
Seems to me you're greatly exaggerating the difficulty of obtaining ID.

The reality seems to be that few people have difficulty procuring ID ... while everyone has difficulty procuring a gun.
I guess I can simply ask you this question in another way...
Voting is a right, owning a gun is a right...why should it be harder to vote than to buy a gun? They're both rights, correct? Given that they're both constitutional rights, shouldn't they both come with the ability to exercised with the same level of ease?
I would simply say that both come with responsibilities. I would go so far as saying one no less than the other.

Both of these constitutional rights endanger the lives and livelihoods of others if not exercised responsibly.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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To be honest, I haven't even seen a gun transaction in years but what I remember involved both paperwork and waiting ... so I'm really still not seeing an equivalence.

Of course, maybe buying a gun has gotten a lot easier ... seems unlikely though.
The reality seems to be that few people have difficulty procuring ID ... while everyone has difficulty procuring a gun.
Both of these constitutional rights endanger the lives and livelihoods of others if not exercised responsibly.

When I bought my most recent firearm, it was fairly quick...the paper work took about 5 mins, the background check was nearly instant. I was in and out of the store in less than 15 mins. I've yet to be lucky enough to make it through a DMV line that quickly.

Right now it's a lot easier to purchase a gun...
ARMSLIST - For Sale: ATI AR15 223/556 new in box

That's the issue, I could be a felon for all this private seller knows, show up looking clean cut and respectable, hand them $500 cash, walk away with a "new in box" AR15...no backgrounds checks, no questions asked.

40% of guns sales go through these kinds of outlets.

Most people who are advocating universal background checks aren't even anti-gun...I'm okay with universal background checks, I've got multiple AR's, and AK, 2 shotguns, and an assortment of handguns as well as a concealed carry permit and carry just about everywhere that will legally allow it...I went through the proper channels for each and every purchase. I'm certainly not anti-gun by any means...I love guns and shoot on a regular basis. However, I respect guns, more importantly, respect the amount of damage they're capable of causing if not handled properly. Because of that, I have no problem with vetting people to make sure they're legal, competent, and mentally sound.

The vetting shouldn't be unreasonable like it is in some localities...I'd certainly never want to live under NYC or Cali's gun laws...however, it shouldn't be so lax that 40% of transactions happen with absolutely zero vetting other than "yeah, this guy looks alright to me".

As for voting, the republican "voting control" measures remind me of democratic "gun control" measures as they go beyond validation, and cross into the realm of deterrence.

As someone who favors the libertarian policy of "we should only be governed just enough to make sure our rights to life, liberty, and property are reasonably protected" and as someone who opposes wasteful government regulations, I'd have to vote against voter ID laws. To me, putting in place a policy that requires people to spend money in order to vote, all in the name of preventing an issue that wouldn't haven't changed the outcomes of any recent elections anyway, is the definition of wasteful spending.

However, the voter ID laws really aren't aimed at preventing the democrats from cheating, regardless of how they're packaged. The purpose of the voter ID laws are to help republicans win more elections going forward by disenfranchising people who typically don't vote for them.

The idea that "we'll put in place a policy that could potentially jeopardize the ability of 15 million registered voters, to make sure that those other 80 people don't try to cheat" somehow jives with "we need to keep the integrity of the system in place to make sure that election outcomes are as close as possible to representing the will of the registered voters" is completely backwards.

If you have to pick a system that's as close to accurate as possible, you error on the side of +80 and not on the side of -15000000.
 
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The Barbarian

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...and let's be honest, the video is absolutely right. The republican governors aren't the least bit worried about the voter fraud aspect, it's simply a way to weed out certain demographics that they know don't tend to vote republican.

Bingo. The real proof of that is that the very few real cases of voter fraud we see in U.S. elections are almost entirely those that wouldn't have been prevented by ID laws. There are other laws that would cover such fraud, but since they would affect people who mostly vote republican, that isn't going to happen.
 
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