if you CHOSE to sin, are you still saved?

standingtall said:

So you don't sin anymore?

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Where did I say I was born of God? I am hoping and waiting for rebirth in Him and I do believe that happens in this life, as John states in chapters 3 and 5.

98cwitr said:

Where did I say I was born of God? I am hoping and waiting for rebirth in Him.

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What do you consider to be "born of God"? Do you consider being "born again" as the same?

standingtall said:

What do you consider to be "born of God"? Do you consider being "born again" as the same?

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My spirit must be reborn in God to become a Child of God

John 3:1-10, 1 John 3:9-10

I will confess, I am knee-deep in sin...and the following verse from Paul scares me to death

Hebrews 10

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

98cwitr said:

I will confess, I am knee-deep in sin...and the following verse from Paul scares me to death

Hebrews 10

26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[d] and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”[e] 31 It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

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I mean this well and without any condemnation towards you. If you are hoping to gain your salvation or sanctification through self effort and morbid introspection, or hoping for a magical state of perfect sinlessness that no Christian in history has ever known on this side of eternity, than you really have no hope at all. The good news is that it is all of grace through Christ and what He has accomplished! Our own works of righteousness from ourselves even at our best, is still filthy rags before our Father's eyes. I believe you have come to saving faith in Christ through His great grace. I hope you can come to rest and live in His grace, and walk in Him through the power of the Holy Spirit.

I've been down your path brother, and until I learned that all of salvation and sanctification in walking in Chist is completely through the work of Christ through grace alone, I was bound by fear and dread. I pray you find rest.

56Bluesman said:

I mean this well and without any condemnation towards you. If you are hoping to gain your salvation or sanctification through self effort and morbid introspection, or hoping for a magical state of perfect sinlessness that no Christian in history has ever known on this side of eternity, than you really have no hope at all. The good news is that it is all of grace through Christ and what He has accomplished! Our own works of righteousness from ourselves even at our best, is still filthy rags before our Father's eyes. I believe you have come to saving faith in Christ through His great grace. I hope you can come to rest and live in His grace, and walk in Him through the power of the Holy Spirit.

I've been down your path brother, and until I learned that all of salvation and sanctification in walking in Chist is completely through the work of Christ through grace alone, I was bound by fear and dread. I pray you find rest.

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On the contrary

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

I must be reborn...John 3.

98cwitr said:

Where did I say I was born of God? I am hoping and waiting for rebirth in Him and I do believe that happens in this life, as John states in chapters 3 and 5.

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Brother, I do not know if you are truly in this predicament over being knee deep in sin; or, are you using a technique to get people to examine themselves. If you or others are in this struggle, in years past I found my real help from a true man of God. A Puritan named Thomas Brookes wrote a book called "Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices". Do a google search for:

precious remedies against satan's devices pdf

It may come up on a website called "preachtheword".

When you get to the page, scroll to page 105 and start reading at "Device 7:" You will find some of the grandest teaching from God's word imaginable. When I need real help from spiritual men of God, I do not find it in this day... I find it back in the Puritans. Do, please do go and check out this man. If you are sincere, you are needlessly tearing yourself apart and it is heart breaking for a Christian to be in such a depressing state.

98cwitr, if you can, read the book "Reasons for God" at the end of the book it says basically, if you've read everything in this book and still don't feel like you can be saved, instead of looking for God, ask God to look for you. God wants a relationship with you and I believe that if you ask this and sincerely want Him to find you He will. And if you don't sincerely want Him to find you, then ask Him to give you the desire for Him to find you.

Isaiah 57:15-21

King James Version (KJV)

15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
17 For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.
18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.
19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the Lord; and I will heal him.
20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.
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When the believer chooses sin God removes his protection and allows Satan to strike us. This is the process that firmly establishes the fear.
Through obedience we learn that even through the fiery trials we suffer not!

Mark 16:16-18

King James Version (KJV)

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover

Luke 10:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.

The true disciple will be chastised but not harmed until his hour has come!


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1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

King James Version (KJV)

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

98cwitr said:

Where did I say I was born of God? I am hoping and waiting for rebirth in Him and I do believe that happens in this life, as John states in chapters 3 and 5.

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Your Profile indicates you have been on this Forum for 7 years this month. You have over 7000 posts. You are still waiting to be born from above? Maybe you are in a church like I attended once. The preachers always tried to make people doubt their salvation. It was always good to have people coming down the aisle at the altar call! You know, God saves you once and for all. Some preachers like to save you over and over to raise the count!

yankeeblue said:

I know that the gift of salvation comes freely from our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I know all we have to do is accept this free gift and accept Him as our Savior, acknowledge that we are sinners and cannot save ourselves and we have salvation. I believe we cannot lose our salvation once put in the hands of the Lord.
My question is for someone that claims to be saved, and loves the Lord Jesus during the day, but every single night, pours the alcohol down their throat. drinks till drunk. nightly. knows it is wrong, but says they cannot stop.
Since this person is choosing to sin repeatedly and not turning from their sin, does this change their salvation and damn them to hell?
I believe we all must repent as Jesus Himself told us to "Repent, and turn from your wickedness of sin." When this disobedience is a daily thing, then does that person become unsaved and bound for hell?

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All sin is a choice. What distinguishes a true believer and a false believer is the true believer does not practice sin. 1John 3:9
Listen here for a more complete answer;
http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/BirthmarksofaBeliever.32.mp3

http://www.gerald285.com/web_media/TrueChristianityJohnMacArthhur.wma

98cwitr said:

On the contrary

10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

I must be reborn...John 3.

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Yep, it is all of God's great grace through Christ. So what makes your sins a special case that the blood of Christ cannot cleanse? What makes you think that the free gift of salvation to all who come to Him in faith is denied to you? What confounds you to not accept and rest in the gospel promise of Romans 10:9 or the entire chapter of Romans 5 ? Sorry brother but you are in a bondage that you can be free of. I am praying that you find rest and peace and assurance in what Christ has delivered through His grace to you.

A person's sins are forgiven and thrown away, but... a new sin is not until asked for. If you ask for forgiveness and still intend to continue... No, you are not covered by the blood and No, you will not go to heaven. No sin will be in heaven so how can a person still covered sin still go to heaven????

grandma dolittle said:

A person's sins are forgiven and thrown away, but... a new sin is not until asked for. If you ask for forgiveness and still intend to continue... No, you are not covered by the blood and No, you will not go to heaven. No sin will be in heaven so how can a person still covered sin still go to heaven????

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Grandma Dolittle, I beg to respectfully disagree with you; either Christ saves and keeps His children to the uttermost losing none, His blood having paid in full for their sins past present and future, all of salvation being through His wonderful grace, or He saves none at all. That's how I understand what the scriptures teach, and yes I have to side with Calvin on this one, as I believe in the truth of the doctrine of eternal security of the believer.

How can you be repenting of a sin this morning knowing full well that you will repeat it this afternoon???? That isn't how I see repenting. Nothing can snatch us from Christ, but we can leave him. We sin and the Holy spirit will not dwell in us. Light and darkness does not mix... there are no shades of grey. that is part of our free will to accept and live for him or to sin... either or, but you can't straddle a fence!

grandma dolittle said:

How can you be repenting of a sin this morning knowing full well that you will repeat it this afternoon???? That isn't how I see repenting. Nothing can snatch us from Christ, but we can leave him. We sin and the Holy spirit will not dwell in us. Light and darkness does not mix... there are no shades of grey. that is part of our free will to accept and live for him or to sin... either or, but you can't straddle a fence!

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So Christ's blood only covers sin up to a point? Then more is applied as needed?

grandma dolittle said:

How can you be repenting of a sin this morning knowing full well that you will repeat it this afternoon???? That isn't how I see repenting. Nothing can snatch us from Christ, but we can leave him. We sin and the Holy spirit will not dwell in us. Light and darkness does not mix... there are no shades of grey. that is part of our free will to accept and live for him or to sin... either or, but you can't straddle a fence!

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Logically speaking...we can snatch ourselves from Christ...so "nothing" isn't literal here.

I think the duality of man makes the world grey...time to find some absolution.

MagusAlbertus said:

Speaking as a social scientists, I can assure you that there is no such thing as choice. God made us and intended that we commit every sin that we commit, usually so that we can see his Glory later.

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what an odd statement - did you not notice the signature you use, fully contradicts your statement ?

it reads as follows

For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

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in the words of our friendly Hammster ... " jus sayin "

I really don't think we have any way of knowing who will and won't go to Heaven. God sees inside this person's heart, but we don't.

I think we need to keep praying about people like this-persistently. (Luke 18, 1-8) Another thing to think about- St Patrick spent six years praying before God finally answered and brought him out of slavery in Ireland. Christians should never give up praying.

98cwitr said:

Logically speaking...we can snatch ourselves from Christ...so "nothing" isn't literal here.

I think the duality of man makes the world grey...time to find some absolution.

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God's grace in Christ isn't logical by man's perspective, nor shall it ever be. God says that no one can meet His standard of Holy Justice! It's by total and complete grace that we come to salvation!!!!! I repeat, it's by God's great love and mercy and grace in Christ! Sorry but I see no exception clause in regards to that any man can snatch himself if he is one of Christ's sheep, out of Christ's hand, or that His sheep/children can choose to separate themselves from His great love. It's an impossibility for them to do so! Once one becomes a born again child of God in Christ, it shall be unto all eternity! All who seem to have fallen away, never were of the true sheep or children of God to begin with. But hey, if one wants to choose some path of limited grace that must be kept by works and self effort, I can only pray for them that they truly find rest in Christ's great grace someday, instead of their constantly working out their self imposed walking in fear, guilt, and failure instead of grace.