If you cannot believe the genesis account....

MQTA · Jun 3, 2004

Nathan PoeNow said:
FoC, how about a straight answer on this one? I dare you:

What causes gravity?

I asked that of someone once. They said

there is no gravity, the Earth SUCKS

MQTA · Jun 3, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
But how do you dispute the OTs Masoretic text that says virgin

Who was named Immanuel? or even Emmanuel.

Isaiah 7:14 - Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isaiah 8:8 - And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.

Matthew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

The above are the only 3 referrences. And of course, what gluadys said too.

Mistermystery · Jun 3, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
But how do you dispute the OTs Masoretic text that says virgin

Because it is part of the myth? In Korea Kim Jong Il was said to be born in a log cabin at his father's guerrilla base on North Korea's highest mountain, Mt Paektu, in February 1942. The event was reportedly marked by a double rainbow, and a bright star in the sky. A soldier in the army commanded by the Dear Leader's father, the Great Leader, saw the star and the rainbow and rejoiced, carving a message into a tree*: "Oh, Korea, I announce the birth of the Star of Paekdu."

Does that mean it happend? NO. Now get back to your myth: Does that mean the virgin birth happend? NO. It's all part of the myth surrounding Jesus.Does that mean that Jesus's wisdom is less? NO. Not everything about jesus that is in the bible should be seen as literal. Like the parables Jesus told. They didn't happen, but did make the point across into telling the people a valuable lesson. Other myths should also be seen as not literal.

* funfact trivia: the tree in question was planted apperently 20 years after the event. After this was discovered the tree was immediatly cut down.

Mistermystery · Jun 3, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
and again, IF Genesis 1 were shown to be parable then I would accept it as such and probably old earth as well....

... The earth has been shown to be old. You just simply dismiss it, so I really am puzzeld to what you would find acceptable as proof. So tell me, what do you see as proof?

Mistermystery · Jun 3, 2004

n/m wrong post.

Nathan Poe · Jun 3, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
Poe.......lets NOT change the subject.........

CAN YOU PROVE IT OR NOT

THAT is all I care about
NOTHING else.....

Singlemindedness is rarely a virtue...

Scientists can provide as muchABSOLUTE PROOF of evolution as you can of gravity.

And yet, only one of these sticks in the collective craw of YECs.

Double standard much?

Nathan Poe · Jun 3, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
But how do you dispute the OTs Masoretic text that says virgin

If I were writing the NT, and the OT said he was born of a virgin, I'd certainly mention that as well.

It's not the kind of fact that anyone can check...

Follower of Christ · Jun 3, 2004

Nathan Poe said:
If I were writing the NT, and the OT said he was born of a virgin, I'd certainly mention that as well.

It's not the kind of fact that anyone can check...

uh.....i see you didnt read again....

kermit the toad · Jun 3, 2004

I do not believe in a literal a Bible. I believe that the Bible is true, but not fact. While much of the Bible IS fat, not all of it is. I believe that certain stories tell us truths about the nature of God through metaphors. If Jesus, who is God, spoke in parables (i.e.: extended metaphor), why is it so unreasonable to assume that other parts of God's word (i.e.: the Bible) are not equally metaphorical?

I do not believe that the Creation story is a lie, I I believe that it is truth, told in the form of a myth.

gluadys · Jun 3, 2004

oops. no need to answer the same post twice. Deleting second reply.

Follower of Christ · Jun 3, 2004

........ I believe that the Bible is true, but not fact.

Man Im glad we dont just blurt out responses typing like I did when i read this first line

kermit the toad · Jun 3, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
Man Im glad we dont just blurt out responses typing like I did when i read this first line

DO you understand what I mean, though?

Follower of Christ · Jun 3, 2004

kermit the toad said:
DO you understand what I mean, though?

well, i understand what youre saying, yes.

I thought the same things when i tried to shove billions of years and monkey-men into the Bible......

Nathan Poe · Jun 3, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
well, i understand what youre saying, yes.

I thought the same things when i tried to shove billions of years and monkey-men into the Bible......

Now why would you try to do that? Bad enough you've stuffed God into a Bible-shaped box; is there room for billions of years?

kermit the toad · Jun 4, 2004

Follower of Christ said:
well, i understand what youre saying, yes.

I thought the same things when i tried to shove billions of years and monkey-men into the Bible......

I'd contend that you were more correct when you thought those things, for example, what about the Song of Soloman? If we take that as literal, then it is, essentially, a sex story. In order for it to be about God, it MUST be read as a metaphor. Why is it so illogical to look at other parts of the Bible as figurative (again, I point to Jesus' parables).

Of course, neither of us knows for sure, so we'll just have to really on faith.

Follower of Christ · Jun 4, 2004

kermit the toad said:
I'd contend that you were more correct when you thought those things, for example, what about the Song of Soloman? If we take that as literal, then it is, essentially, a sex story. In order for it to be about God, it MUST be read as a metaphor. Why is it so illogical to look at other parts of the Bible as figurative (again, I point to Jesus' parables).

Of course, neither of us knows for sure, so we'll just have to really on faith.

Honestly, I tried and tried after I got saved to push that tripe in......it just doesnt fit so I just had to pretend it didnt matter and ignore Genesis altogether...

I would read thru Genesis 1 very quickly and then try to throw the ''day is as 1000 years''' thing in to try to convince myself that it could be any amount of time.....

oh man.......Im sorry....but Ive given this ''why i take genesis 1 literallly'' speech to many times already.......please do a search and find what Ive said before

kermit the toad · Jun 4, 2004

oh man.......Im sorry....but Ive given this ''why i take genesis 1 literallly'' speech to many times already.......please do a search and find what Ive said before

Fair enough.

Follower of Christ · Jun 4, 2004

kermit the toad said:
Fair enough.

I see that I didnt comment on Song of Solomon before.....

I do take SOS literally...
I think it is very important...

You look at a lot of churches and how they view sex......
Very uptight and acting like they can tell a man and his wife how to act together and how to feel about each other.

But We have SOS to show how a man is permitted to feel about his wife......and the wife for her husband.....

In all honestly, SOS has probably saved me from having to see a shrink....

the way I was raised, my mother had me thinking sex and desire was some demonic thing that only freaks of nature would allow to enter their minds....

I remember her catching me checking out babes in bikinis when i was about 13-14 and her calling me a freak then.....
She would tell me she wasnt raising any freaks in her house.....so you know.......that had its affect....

She had five kids by the way.......hypocritical, no

But I read SOS and when I saw how he felt for his wife and her beauty and she for him, I knew that my mother was the one with the problem and not me.....

Ive read that it is also metaphor as to how God feels for us...
I cant say Ive read that much into it entirely.....only that I know others feel it is......

Personally, ive always taken it literally that Solomon adored his wife

aeroz19 · Jun 5, 2004

Nathan Poe said:
It's called "faith." People who have enough of it can believe in God even without a literal Bible.

Funny ol' world, ain't it?

People of faith are not blind fools who ignorantly accept things that are incorrect. I really am quite offended by this steriotype, as it is arrogant and erroneous.

armed2010 · Jun 5, 2004

aeroz19 said:
People of faith are not blind fools who ignorantly accept things that are incorrect. I really am quite offended by this steriotype, as it is arrogant and erroneous.

Faith- Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence

If you cannot believe the genesis account....

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