If you believe.

ViaCrucis · Nov 29, 2015

NJA said:
It doesn't bother you that the main passage on how the church meeting should be run (1 Corinthians 14 especially) is ignored?

1 Corinthians 14 isn't about how a church meeting should be run; the Apostle isn't giving an order of worship, he is stating that there must be order in worship. The Apostle doesn't say that there should be glossolalia when Christians gather, but that if one does, it must be orderly and not chaotic.

"If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn; and let one interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let them be silent in church and speak to themselves and to God."

The statement beings with εἴτε, a conditional particle usually translated as "if", if any speaks a tongue.

-CryptoLutheran

Countryangel707 · Dec 1, 2015

I am just afraid that sometimes I only see Jesus as a historical figure. And am afraid that is the reason I believe things like He is real and the only way. But then I still have some of the obvious signs of a Christian

NJA · Dec 1, 2015

Countryangel707 said:
I am just afraid that sometimes I only see Jesus as a historical figure.

You need to receive what Jesus was referring to here:
"will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you" (John 14:19-20)

- the disciples "knew the day", so will you!

Countryangel707 said:
And am afraid that is the reason I believe things like He is real and the only way. But then I still have some of the obvious signs of a Christian

Signs of being a believer, theer is a specific sign of receiving the Holy Spirit (becoming "Christian" - Romans 8:8-9)

Steven Wood · Dec 15, 2015

Countryangel707 said:
if i believe that Jesus is Lord and God. does that mean i am saved?

Do you believe that Jesus Died for you and rose again? If so then yes Dear friend We are all saved. we have been for 2,000 years All you need to do is ask forgiveness.

nightflight · Dec 15, 2015

Isaiah55:6 said:
(2 Cor 13:5) says, "examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you-- unless, of course you fail the test?"

And then in the 1st book of John, John gives us 6 marks that a true believer will carry.
A true believer will....
1. Not carry on living in an unrepentant state of sin(1 John 3:9)
2. Will believe Jesus is the only way of salvation. (1 John 5:1)
3. Will strive to live a righteous life and be conformed to the image of Christ (1 John 2:29)
4. Will have a special love for your fellow brethren in Christ (1 John 3:14) 5. Will desire not the things of this world but rather you will desire the things of God ( 1 John 5:4)
6. Will take great care to avoid even the things that can even lead to sin (1 John 5:18)

* please note that these are not works we must do in order to be saved but rather this is our new nature having been born again. (John 3:13), "truly, truly I tell you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God"

To an introvert, this is a nightmare.

hedrick · Dec 15, 2015

Introverts can be Christians too. There are ways for lives to bear fruit even if personal contact is stressful. Love in the Christian sense isn't a cuddly emotion, but caring about what happens to people.

nightflight · Dec 15, 2015

hedrick said:
Introverts can be Christians too. There are ways for lives to bear fruit even if personal contact is stressful. Love in the Christian sense isn't a cuddly emotion, but caring about what happens to people.

So is this something one must have prior to being a Christian or is it really a fruit? How long can one go without seeing this before he/she must conclude they are not truly a Christian?

Isaiah55:6 · Dec 16, 2015

nightflight said:
So is this something one must have prior to being a Christian or is it really a fruit? How long can one go without seeing this before he/she must conclude they are not truly a Christian?

I wouldn't be too hard on yourself if you don't have every single fruit. Especially if its because your an introvert. Loving your brothers and sisters in Christ is something that can come through sanctification.

hedrick · Dec 16, 2015

I agree with Isaiah55:6. There's no test to be a follower of Jesus. Jesus indicated that God would welcome anyone, and Paul said that the way we know followers of Jesus is by the fact that they trust in Christ and what he has done, not anything they've done.

Bearing fruit is something we're committed to do as followers of Jesus, not a hurdle we have to get over to become followers. But how much and what form it takes is between you and God. One problem Christian theology has had is people who take their own experience and build a concept of what it's like to be a Christian based on that. Different people come to Jesus in a different way, and have different things they struggle with. I do assume that being a Christian will change you in some way, in the long term. But you won't necessarily know how until you look back on your life later.

nightflight · Dec 17, 2015

hedrick said:
I agree with Isaiah55:6. There's no test to be a follower of Jesus. Jesus indicated that God would welcome anyone, and Paul said that the way we know followers of Jesus is by the fact that they trust in Christ and what he has done, not anything they've done.

Bearing fruit is something we're committed to do as followers of Jesus, not a hurdle we have to get over to become followers. But how much and what form it takes is between you and God. One problem Christian theology has had is people who take their own experience and build a concept of what it's like to be a Christian based on that. Different people come to Jesus in a different way, and have different things they struggle with. I do assume that being a Christian will change you in some way, in the long term. But you won't necessarily know how until you look back on your life later.

But what if a person is really misanthropic and finds the idea of loving his neighbor to be impossible?

Emmy · Dec 17, 2015

Dear Countryangel707. If you believe that Jesus is God`s Son and died that we might live, you are on the way.
Jesus is the Way, and He will lead us back to God our Heavenly Father. In Matthew 22: 35-40: Jesus tells us:
" The first and great Commandment is: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
The second is like it: love thy neighbour as thyself." Verse 40 tells us: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." We are asking for Love and Joy, " Matthew 7: 7-10" then thank God and share all love and joy with my neighbour." We keep asking for love and joy, and keep sharing it all with our neighbour. (neighbour is all we know and all we meet, friends and not friends) God will see our loving efforts, and God will bless us.
We might stumble and forget at times, but then ask God to forgive us, and carry on Loving and Caring.
In Luke 10: 25-28: Jesus is asked: " Master, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus answered: " You remember: Love God with all thy heart, with all thy soul, and with all thy mind? DO THIS AND YOU SHALL LIVE.
God is love and God wants loving sons and daughters."
The Bible tells us: " Repent and be Born Again, change from being selfish and unloving to Loving God with all your beings, and love your neighbour as you love yourself. Love is very catching, and Love is a Christian`s weapon.
With us to be always. The Holy Spirit will help and guide us, and Jesus our Saviour will lead us all the; JESUS IS THE WAY.
I say this with love, Countryangel. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

paul1149 · Dec 17, 2015

nightflight said:
But what if a person is really misanthropic and finds the idea of loving his neighbor to be impossible?

It all starts here:

We love because he first loved us. 1Jn 4.19

We come to Christ out of need. Man is unable to save himself from his predicament. I think it was Einstein who said that in order to solve a problem you must approach it from a higher level.

In Christ, God graciously did what man could not do, could never do, no matter how much effort he expended. As has often been said, religion is man trying to reach up to God. Christianity is God reaching down to man. It is on this basis that Jesus offers us rest for our souls (Mt 11.28-ff), that Hebrews tells us we should cease from our "dead works".

When you understand the magnitude of what God has done for you, and that the only possible motivation behind it was love (in direct refutation of the devil's accusation in Gen 3), you will begin to experience that astonishing love. It is the most powerful force in the universe. There is no rational defense against it.

And once you experience it, you will begin, naturally, to love back. You will literally fall in love with God.

How that works out in the horizontal is different in the particulars for each of us. We have unique personalities and circumstances. But nonetheless the spirit behind it all is the same. And the more you look to Jesus for your justification, the less you will rely on your own perceptions and judgments of the externals.

But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself.
For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me.
Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God. -1Cor 4:3-5

ldonjohn · Jan 16, 2016

Countryangel707 said:
if i believe that Jesus is Lord and God. does that mean i am saved?

Countryangel, I am going to try to make a long story a short one as I tell of my experience with "believing" in Jesus. My misunderstanding of the word "believe" was the source of several years of misery for me when I was a young adult. I wanted to "believe" in Jesus as Lord and Savior, but I did not fully understand just what that meant.

I believed that Jesus was the Son of God.
I believed that Jesus became a Man and died on a cross.
I believed that Jesus came to save sinners from their sins.
I believed that Jesus was raised from the grave on the third day after His crucifixion.
I believed I was a sinner who needed forgiveness of my sin.
I believed Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." And I called on His name many times trying to get him to save me.
I believed all of those things because I had heard them in church in all of my childhood.

I thought that because "I" believed those things about Jesus that I was saved, but I had no assurance of salvation, and I had no peace. Why, because I did not know the truth about "believing." One day, out of a sense of desperation, I decided to look for the truth in God's Word, so I opened a bible to the Gospel of John, asked God to show me the truth, and started reading. I found my answer there as the Holy Spirit opened my blind spiritual eyes and led me to completely understand what it meant to "believe in Jesus." I still believe those things listed above, but there is more. Now: I see with my spiritual eyes that,

when Jesus was nailed to the cross, my sins were nailed to that same cross with Him.
when Jesus shed His blood on the cross my sins were covered by His blood.
when Jesus said "it is finished" He meant that my sin debt to God is "paid in full."
His death on the cross & His shed blood there is all that God requires for my sins to be forgiven.

As I read the Gospel of John the Holy Spirit completely convinced me of those truths. It was as though I was blind, and now I could see. He turned on the light for me and "I got it."
Jesus died on the cross for "me," "my" sins are nailed to the cross, covered by His blood, and I bare them no more.
Seeing the truth of what Jesus did for me changed my focus of "believing" from me trying to build up within myself a level of faith, which was actually faith in my ability to have faith, from that to me completely casting all of myself, all of my fear, all of my confidence, all of me onto Him. It meant to completely give up on "self" and to put my confidence in Him. It is turning from self to Him. It is a transfer of confidence from self to Jesus. It meant that I cast my helpless hopeless self at the foot of His cross, completely relying in that message. It meant my struggle was over, all of my efforts to get God to save me, all of my "trying," all of my "work," all "I" was doing stopped and I simply came to a complete "rest" in Him. Yes, I did call on His name again to thank Him for forgiving me and to ask him to change me His way. Whatever we call it, belief, faith, trust, confidence if it is in the Message of the Cross is a rest from work, from fear, and from uncertainty. It is peace!

Praise God! Thank You Jesus!

Sincerely,

Don

Countryangel707 · Jan 19, 2016

ldonjohn said:
Countryangel, I am going to try to make a long story a short one as I tell of my experience with "believing" in Jesus. My misunderstanding of the word "believe" was the source of several years of misery for me when I was a young adult. I wanted to "believe" in Jesus as Lord and Savior, but I did not fully understand just what that meant.

I believed that Jesus was the Son of God.
I believed that Jesus became a Man and died on a cross.
I believed that Jesus came to save sinners from their sins.
I believed that Jesus was raised from the grave on the third day after His crucifixion.
I believed I was a sinner who needed forgiveness of my sin.
I believed Romans 10:13, "For whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." And I called on His name many times trying to get him to save me.
I believed all of those things because I had heard them in church in all of my childhood.

I thought that because "I" believed those things about Jesus that I was saved, but I had no assurance of salvation, and I had no peace. Why, because I did not know the truth about "believing." One day, out of a sense of desperation, I decided to look for the truth in God's Word, so I opened a bible to the Gospel of John, asked God to show me the truth, and started reading. I found my answer there as the Holy Spirit opened my blind spiritual eyes and led me to completely understand what it meant to "believe in Jesus." I still believe those things listed above, but there is more. Now: I see with my spiritual eyes that,

when Jesus was nailed to the cross, my sins were nailed to that same cross with Him.
when Jesus shed His blood on the cross my sins were covered by His blood.
when Jesus said "it is finished" He meant that my sin debt to God is "paid in full."
His death on the cross & His shed blood there is all that God requires for my sins to be forgiven.

As I read the Gospel of John the Holy Spirit completely convinced me of those truths. It was as though I was blind, and now I could see. He turned on the light for me and "I got it."
Jesus died on the cross for "me," "my" sins are nailed to the cross, covered by His blood, and I bare them no more.
Seeing the truth of what Jesus did for me changed my focus of "believing" from me trying to build up within myself a level of faith, which was actually faith in my ability to have faith, from that to me completely casting all of myself, all of my fear, all of my confidence, all of me onto Him. It meant to completely give up on "self" and to put my confidence in Him. It is turning from self to Him. It is a transfer of confidence from self to Jesus. It meant that I cast my helpless hopeless self at the foot of His cross, completely relying in that message. It meant my struggle was over, all of my efforts to get God to save me, all of my "trying," all of my "work," all "I" was doing stopped and I simply came to a complete "rest" in Him. Yes, I did call on His name again to thank Him for forgiving me and to ask him to change me His way. Whatever we call it, belief, faith, trust, confidence if it is in the Message of the Cross is a rest from work, from fear, and from uncertainty. It is peace!

Praise God! Thank You Jesus!

Sincerely,

Don

This is exactly what I am struggling with. I am confused and having trouble what it means to truly believe to have Biblical saving faith. I have read the Gospel chapter over and over and have continued to ask God to show me what I am missing everyday for almost a year. I am not seeing anything and its so frustrating like He don't hear me or like He don't care. Then I get wrapped up in the predestination stuff and wonder if I am not predestined to go to Heaven and instead was created to go to hell. I have been in church my whole life, so I know all about what to do to go to Heaven and I know all the "Sunday School Answers". I am just so confused.

paul1149 · Jan 19, 2016

It would be impossible to estimate the damage wrong understanding of predestination has done to the saints. You can spend an awful lot of time struggling with whether you are chosen for salvation or not. It would be entirely fruitless and meaningless, and eventually wear you out. What matters is the faith that works through love. If God cared enough to send His Only-Begotten to die a horrible death for you, why don't you take your stand on that? There is no better ground for salvation available anywhere. Get your focus off yourself and onto Him. Accept what He did as a free gift, and start running the race of faith He has set out for you. As long as you allow yourself to be consumed by doubts - which ultimately amount to doubting God's love - you will not make progress. You are in control. You can refuse the doubts if you choose to.

NJA · Jan 19, 2016

Countryangel707 said:
This is exactly what I am struggling with. I am confused and having trouble what it means to truly believe to have Biblical saving faith....I am not seeing anything and its so frustrating like He don't hear me or like He don't care. ...

God always hears and cares, the question is, do we hear him? Or do we care more for our own cherished opinions of "the gospel" ...

"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
And these signs shall follow them that believe;

In my name shall they cast out devils;
they shall speak with new tongues;
They shall take up serpents;
and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them;
they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

...
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen" (Mark 16:15-20)

So, which sign(s) should you expect?
If you read through Acts (2:4, 33; 10:44-46, 19:5-6) you will see that the sign of speaking in tongues accompanied the receiving of the Holy Spirit, other signs foll at other times.

Countryangel707 · Jan 21, 2016

I think the verse that makes me think this way is: 1 John 4:13-15 (especially V.15). It says: "By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God."

NJA · Jan 21, 2016

Countryangel707 said:
I think the verse that makes me think this way is: 1 John 4:13-15 (especially V.15). It says: "By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God."

Modern churches teach that to "confess Jesus is the Son of God" means to believe and repeat those words.
But Jesus taught that many who call Him Lord will be told "I never knew you" and when preaching salvation to people the apostles never took a confession as sign or proof of receiving His Spirit.

So, what does John mean?

"Confess" is translated from the greek homo-logos meaning to speak the same word.
Jesus himself said that "If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. There is another that beareth witness of me" (John 5:31-32)
... he poined to the independent witness of the miracles of his Father.

"if I do not the works of my Father, believe me not" (John 10:37)

He said that people would know when they received His Spirit (John 14:20), not because they made a confession or someone else did, no, they spoke in tongues (the Abba Father cry - Romans 8:15-16, Gal. 4:6) as the Spirit gave utterance (Acts 2:4, 33; 10:44-48).
In Acts 8:5-18 the Samarians believed and were baptised, which itself is a confression of faith, yet it was known that they had not yet received the Holy Spirit.

paul1149 · Jan 22, 2016

Countryangel707 said:
I think the verse that makes me think this way is: 1 John 4:13-15 (especially V.15). It says: "By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God."

What is your problem with that passage?

Countryangel707 · Jan 22, 2016

paul1149 said:
What is your problem with that passage?

I am trying to figure out that f I acknowledge that Jesus is God does that mean that I am saved?

If you believe.

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