If you believe there is no hell . . .

[theseed]

...then LIVE the Gospel -- and if necessary, use words.

People will always be more attracted to someone who "walks his talk" than someone who merely promotes his "walk". [/size][/font]

Now that I agree with.

 

[theseed]

Have you read the words in the original language, in the original context, in the political, social, religious, cultural, and linguistic context of the period in which they were written?

THAT is why Biblical scholars spend their entire lives studying the Scriptures in such incredible detail -- to determine exactly WHAT "the words" really mean.

So, you don't think New Testament Christians believed in a literal, eternal place of torment? Does it take a super scholar to figure that out?

 

[theseed]

Goes along with what I was about to say....

"Where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth..." is more of an allusion to the suffering and violence that occurs in the world. Being a part of God's kingdom, the one Jesus established and continues in the here and now, is a way of life that promotes the opposite - love, service, care. You can escape the destructive cycle by becoming a servant in God's kingdom.

To be free from sin is to be free from death, thefore to be free from sin means to have life without end.

 

[theseed]

Not according to what Jesus said in John 17:3. He stated that eternal life is knowing God. He reveals that "eternal" predicates "life" in a sense of quality, not quantity. That's all there is to it.

Can you really build theology arond one verse? What about the rest of The Bible? Are you scrapping that?

Job's body was destroyed. The entire book is ripe with examples of how his body was afflicted. Shall we look to the Old Testament scholars?

So you believe Job was resurrected from the dead?

That's all. You cannot prove it from scripture, and as a matter of fact, scripture states clearly that mercy is justice, in Psalm 62:12 where it is stated that God in his love or mercy rewards a man according to his deeds.

And punishes them for thier sins (Rev. 21:7-9).

Actually this is incorrect; it states that they will be resurrected -- or how else would they be standing before the white throne? Nonetheless, this doesn't prove your case. The universalist says, why yes, this scripture is true, but the word for "eternal" here -- often falsely translated as everlasting -- means that they will find rehabilitation in their punishment, just as I revealed to you in Matthew 25 with Barclay's statement regarding the greek word for "punishment", when used in all other forms of greek literature, signifying rehabilitation.

Again, I have given you countless examples where quality and quantity are paired together (John 2, 4, 6). You refuse to take Scripture systematically and exegeticaly. I suggest you read Gail R. O'Day's commentary on John. It includes hundreds of pages from the New Interpreters Bible. I've already read hundreds of pages, and have hundreds to go.

 

[The Gregorian]

1) if there is not a hell, then how do you explain God's mercy? Why does God have mercy on us? How does God have mercy? How can God hold something we deserve if it does not exist?

2) If the wages of sin is death, and there is no death or hell (Rev. 1.18), then, why doe we need Christ? Why did Christ die on a cross? Why do we have to believe in Jesus? How can we perish if there is no hell (John 3.16)? How can the lake of fire be for ever and ever if it does not exist?

just found this thread, wanted to pitch my immediate responce in before checking the flow of the conversation... heh.

1: God doesn't need an eternal punishment to be saved from in order to have mercy. In fact, just the opposite. If anyone God didn't like was punished for all eternity, that'd be just plain mean. God has mercy even on those who plainly reject him, murder his people, and knowingly sin in every way possible without feeling any sorrow. To even these people... he doesn't punish for eternity... he just lets them die. True... he COULD torcher them forever, but God is truely honorable in having mercy EVEN to those who sin against him the worst. For example: satan. Nothing can sin as much as satan has. It just can't be done. But God won't punish satan forever. The bible says eventually satan will be utterly destroyed. If even satan is not to be tormented forever... why should someone have a worse punishment for submitting to their imperfect environment?

2: There is death... there is no hell. God said to adam: "The wages of sin is death." period. He never said "the wages of sin is firey torment for eternity." That's kind of an important thing to leave out. I don't think God was being sneaky. I think those who can't live without... at least trying not to sin so much... would be killed.

Keep in mind... "hell" is supposed to be eternal. If there is no escape or end to hell... what's the purpose of the torture? God isn't so illogical that he would cause so much pain to someone if he knows they'll never learn from it and change their ways.

Remember one more thing: it has been said that God sees not only through his eyes... but through ours as well. He knows us because of his omnipotence and omniscience, but also because he can see what we see and feel what we feel. This would explain, partially, why he wants us to be happy, because it litterally makes him happy as well. This is why he hates hatred, and why our suffering hurts him. Therefore... endless unbearable torcher would probably be mildly irritating for God.

 

[techjedi]

To be free from sin is to be free from death, thefore to be free from sin means to have life without end.

If you die as a follower of Christ, in God's kingdom, then your spirit lives on in His presence.

If you die not following Christ, rejecting God's kingdom, your spirit will cease to exist.... death, gone, over.

If you want to use the "lake of fire" symbolism.... it represents destruction, anything thrown in ceases to exist -- which includes death, and those not in the kingdom.

 

[RedTulipMom]

I have questioned the idea of hell ALOT!! I dont know the answer!! We won't know till we die!! there are a few possibilities in my mind:
1 hell is only temporary
2 Hell is eternal separation from God
3 there is no hell
4 Hell is where people burn for eternity

Could be any of the above...i personally hope that 1 or 3 is correct!! But we'll find out someday! If number 4 is correct i just pray i dont end up there!!

karen

 

[Charlie V]

1) if there is not a hell, then how do you explain God's mercy?

If there is a hell, God has no mercy.

The seed has asked this question before, and I've replied to it. The questions seem to be copy/pasted from elsewhere, as he asked them identically elsewhere.

This first question--I don't know how any question could be so non-sequetor. That's like asking, "If the sky is not green, how do you explain the sky's blueness?" Or like asking, "If cars are not immovable objects, how do you explain the fact that they speed by us?"

A question that would make much more sense would be, "if there is a hell, then how do you explain God's mercy?"

Clearly, hell would mean that God has no mercy. The question the seed asked makes no sense at all.

Charlie

 

[Charlie V]

I have questioned the idea of hell ALOT!! I dont know the answer!! We won't know till we die!! there are a few possibilities in my mind:
1 hell is only temporary
2 Hell is eternal separation from God
3 there is no hell
4 Hell is where people burn for eternity

Could be any of the above...i personally hope that 1 or 3 is correct!! But we'll find out someday! If number 4 is correct i just pray i dont end up there!!

karen

I agree--but I go further by saying that I have complete faith that 3 is correct.

To me, your #1 = #3, as part of my understanding of the definition of "hell" is "a place where people suffer eternally," hence, not temporary.

A temporary place would be something else (purgatory?) but not hell, so to me, by definition, #1 is #3.

Charlie

 

[john14_20]

If there is a hell, God has no mercy.

The seed has asked this question before, and I've replied to it. The questions seem to be copy/pasted from elsewhere, as he asked them identically elsewhere.

This first question--I don't know how any question could be so non-sequetor. That's like asking, "If the sky is not green, how do you explain the sky's blueness?" Or like asking, "If cars are not immovable objects, how do you explain the fact that they speed by us?"

A question that would make much more sense would be, "if there is a hell, then how do you explain God's mercy?"

Clearly, hell would mean that God has no mercy. The question the seed asked makes no sense at all.

Charlie

Sometimes the completely obvious is somehow overlooked until someone comes along hits you with it, like a 2 by 4 on the head.

My head hurts Charlie - but thanks!