If you are sick where would you go?

[Philippe2]

To the doctor or his mother?

 

[agyevesam]

Huh????

If you are really sick, you go to a real doctor, if you are spiritually sick you go to Jesus and if you are smart, you ask his mother for intersession, it always helps to have more saints praying on your behalf!!!

 

[ebia]

To the doctor or his mother?

If his mum is also his receptionist, you might well ask her for an appointment.

The trouble with your metaphore is that it allows no room for intersession on behalf of another, whether that is asking Mary to pray for you, or asking the vicar to pray for you, or asking a friend to pray for you.

 

[praying]

To the doctor or his mother?

And this is this Christian "news" how exactly?

 

[HageeFan]

Wait i think i get it.The docter is Jesus and the mother is Mary,am i right?

 

[Chrystal-J]

Wait i think i get it.The docter is Jesus and the mother is Mary,am i right?

That's a good guess! Is this a riddle? I would also like to know how it's "current affairs"...?

 

[HeartFullaLove]

The theory of asking Mary to pray for you falls on the false assumption that she can hear you.

 

[praying]

The theory of asking Mary to pray for you falls on the false assumption that she can hear you.

And you know that she can't because why exactly?

 

[HeartFullaLove]

And you know that she can't because why exactly?

I see no warrant in Scripture for those who have died (though living in spirit) to be able to hear any of those physically living. In addition, God does forbid communication with the dead.

Let me turn the question around: And you know that Mary (or Uncle Herb) can hear you because?

 

[praying]

I see no warrant in Scripture for those who have died (though living in spirit) to be able to hear any of those physically living. In addition, God does forbid communication with the dead.

There is no warrant in scripture about a lot of things, so what does mean, nothing really.

Let me turn the question around: And you know that Mary (or Uncle Herb) can hear you because?

I don't know, I don't know that they can and I don't know that they can't. I do know that it does not hurt or hinder my faith in the least if a Catholic wishes to use Mary or anyone else for that matter as in intercessory. My faith is not built on bringing others faith down.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

There is no warrant in scripture about a lot of things, so what does mean, nothing really.



I don't know, I don't know that they can and I don't know that they can't. I do know that it does not hurt or hinder my faith in the least if a Catholic wishes to use Mary or anyone else for that matter as in intercessory. My faith is not built on bringing others faith down.

Then the prohibition on communicating with the dead is meaningless?

 

[Philippe2]

I think you got the point, but heartfullalove have said what I wanted to. He just said it so much better.

 

[praying]

Then the prohibition on communicating with the dead is meaningless?

Scripture please.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

Scripture please.

Deuteronomy 18:10-12
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,
11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.
12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

7592 sha'al (shaw-al'); or sha'el (shaw-ale'); a primitive root; to inquire; by implication, to request; by extension, to demand:

KJV-- ask (counsel, on), beg, borrow, lay to charge, consult, demand, desire, X earnestly, enquire, + greet, obtain leave, lend, pray, request, require, + salute, X straitly, X surely, wish.

The KJV also uses the word necromancer for "spiritist" which is two words meaning "ask" and "the dead."

 

[praying]

Deuteronomy 18:10-12
10 Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft,
11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead.
12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.

7592 sha'al (shaw-al'); or sha'el (shaw-ale'); a primitive root; to inquire; by implication, to request; by extension, to demand:

KJV-- ask (counsel, on), beg, borrow, lay to charge, consult, demand, desire, X earnestly, enquire, + greet, obtain leave, lend, pray, request, require, + salute, X straitly, X surely, wish.

The KJV also uses the word necromancer for "spiritist" which is two words meaning "ask" and "the dead."

Well, I don't believe that "asking Mary to pray for you" is consulting with the dead however are we under the law?

 

[HeartFullaLove]

Well, I don't believe that "asking Mary to pray for you" is consulting with the dead however are we under the law?

As I have provided, the Hebrew term includes "asking."

I'm not saying we are "under the Law" as a covenant, but God has not changed His mind about what He calls evil. Read the whole verse and ask yourself, "Can I be a follower of Christ and practice divination or fortunetelling or reading omens or sorcery?" If the answer is, "No" then you know you also cannot also communicate with the dead.

It is God's word. Ignore it at your peril.

 

[AngCath]

Then the prohibition on communicating with the dead is meaningless?

you are operating under the assumption that Mary or any of the other saints are dead when in fact Scripture affirms that God is the God of the Living and that all are alive through Him.
Whether or not she can hear you is not something to be proved any more than whether or not Christ can. When you pray, you hear Christ's response do you not? Well when many ask for the intercession of the Blessed Mother, St. Francis, or the Archangel Michael guess what... they hear a response.

 

[AngCath]

To the doctor or his mother?

I can't in all honesty judge your intent but this comment looks like it was designed to sow discord and I pray that you will refrain from this kind of comment in the future. If you had an actual question about Mary's role, or the intercession of saints, there are many places on CF where you could have politely asked.

 

[HeartFullaLove]

you are operating under the assumption that Mary or any of the other saints are dead when in fact Scripture affirms that God is the God of the Living and that all are alive through Him.
Whether or not she can hear you is not something to be proved any more than whether or not Christ can. When you pray, you hear Christ's response do you not? Well when many ask for the intercession of the Blessed Mother, St. Francis, or the Archangel Michael guess what... they hear a response.

Actually, Jesus promises that our heavenly Father will hear us. That's more than I can say for any person who has physically died. We are told to pray to the Father. We are NEVER told or shown example of prayer to anyone else. If you assert that it is biblical to pray to Mary, the burden is on you to prove. I've proven my side -- that we are to pray to God.

If you want to play word games by deliberately confusing physical death with the death of the soul, go ahead, but God is not fooled by your pretended ignorance. Tell me, why did God forbid communicating with the dead if no one is really dead? Remember, even those in Hell have life -- a life of torment. Ask Lazarus.

 

[AngCath]

interesting that you mention lazarus. a being in hell who talked to a Abraham. Abraham is not God, yet he heard him.