If you are a Theist, you are a Creationist!

[philadiddle]

Are you 100% created by God?

Are you 100% created by God? Or were you born from your mother's womb?

 

[ACKerr]

Hmm...so as a theist, I am a creationist. Unfortunately in common use, that term has been distorted to refer solely to a person who believes in a young earth. It also has become a derogatory term that atheistic scientists use against Christians. How about a person who believes that God created the heavens and earth, from beginning to end, in a timeless act - which crushes the concept of random and unguided processes since the end product of His wil was created with the beginning? What percent creationist would I be?

 

[juvenissun]

Are you 100% created by God? Or were you born from your mother's womb?

I am 100% created by God. My body is not the real me. You may cut >50%(?) of my body off. And I will still be 100% me.

 

[juvenissun]

Hmm...so as a theist, I am a creationist. Unfortunately in common use, that term has been distorted to refer solely to a person who believes in a young earth. It also has become a derogatory term that atheistic scientists use against Christians. How about a person who believes that God created the heavens and earth, from beginning to end, in a timeless act - which crushes the concept of random and unguided processes since the end product of His wil was created with the beginning? What percent creationist would I be?

It is the origin problem. The idea of YEC is a very important reference. TE is not 100% creationism.

 

[juvenissun]

Not if evolution was God's creation and the method he used to created the different species, then it is both 100% God's creation and 100% evolution

Are you 100% created by God or were your mum and dad involved? What percentage did your mum and dad come to and what percentage was human reproductive biology? You still don't seem to get that if your precentages are measuring different things, then you are not limited to a total of 100% any more than Jesus was (100-x)% God where x is his percentage humanity. My conception was 100% my mum and dad, it was also 100% human reproductive biology, and 100% God creating me. Unless you really think human reproductive biology and your mum and dad leave no room for God making you.

When God made Adam from clay, what percentage was God creating him and what percent was mud?

As I have replied. Body is made of ash. It comes and goes. But a person is a person, which started before the conception and lasted beyond the physical life.

According to your idea, when did God create you then? May be you are not (0%) a creationist even you are a theist.

 

[juvenissun]

The bible says that God controls the weather. So in your world view do you accept meteorology as an explanation for the weather or is it God? Maybe you think it's 20% God and 80% science? Or maybe 50/50? Please let me know exactly where you stand on this. Have you pushed God out of the picture because of science or have you given Him at least a small amount of the credit for the weather?

I lost the focus of this argument.

----

Regards to the weather: God creates (?) the weather in 100%, we (science) only describe it a little bit.

 

[philadiddle]

I am 100% created by God. My body is not the real me. You may cut >50%(?) of my body off. And I will still be 100% me.

So do you think your body was created by God? Or did God have absolutely nothing to do with it and nature made it? Or maybe you think God was 20% involved in making your body?

I just need clarification on whether you have succumbed to secular science or if you think God actually made you.

 

[philadiddle]

Regards to the weather: God creates (?) the weather in 100%, we (science) only describe it a little bit.

But isn't that more than 100%? Either the weather patterns that we know through science did it, or God did it. If you think that God did it 100%, then how is there room for meteorology?

 

[mark kennedy]

Recently I was reading the blog of an atheistic materialist who ranted and raved about creationists. At one point he mentioned Francis Collins in a list of creationists. Of course, anyone who follows the creation/evolution thing knows better but the other camp, I mean the atheistic materialist camp, regards all theists as creationists.

Now that might just be my half backed opinion but that's always been my feeling, creationists the theistic evolutionists and certainly the IDs are all in the same boat. Never understood why theistic evolutionists think they are somehow in a special class because they beat up on young earth creationists.

Really don't know where you guys get that idea, you in the same boat.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[Assyrian]

Careful there Mark, what you are doing is debunking the creationist claim that TEs only go along with evolution because of peer pressure from atheists.

 

[Assyrian]

I am 100% created by God. My body is not the real me. You may cut >50%(?) of my body off. And I will still be 100% me.

So God is not responsible for creating our bodies, do you realise how Gnostic that sounds? Odd that God is so keen on resurrecting our bodies if they aren't the real us he created. I did quote that verse through him all things were created.

Anyway, if yoru body makes up 50% of you and the rest is 100%, what percentage do you come to, 200%?

As I have replied. Body is made of ash. It comes and goes. But a person is a person, which started before the conception and lasted beyond the physical life.

Ah yes, I remember that now. It fits nicely with the Gnostic denial of God's creation of your physical body.

According to your idea, when did God create you then?

In my mother's womb to start with, you know Psalm 139. Do you remember all those verse I showed you where God's creation is ongoing?

May be you are not (0%) a creationist even you are a theist.

I am not the one denying God created my physical body

 

[3rdHeaven]

Recently I was reading the blog of an atheistic materialist who ranted and raved about creationists. At one point he mentioned Francis Collins in a list of creationists. Of course, anyone who follows the creation/evolution thing knows better but the other camp, I mean the atheistic materialist camp, regards all theists as creationists.

Now that might just be my half backed opinion but that's always been my feeling, creationists the theistic evolutionists and certainly the IDs are all in the same boat. Never understood why theistic evolutionists think they are somehow in a special class because they beat up on young earth creationists.

Really don't know where you guys get that idea, you in the same boat.

Grace and peace,
Mark

I think they got that idea from the Noah's Ark story

 

[juvenissun]

So God is not responsible for creating our bodies, do you realise how Gnostic that sounds? Odd that God is so keen on resurrecting our bodies if they aren't the real us he created. I did quote that verse through him all things were created.

Anyway, if yoru body makes up 50% of you and the rest is 100%, what percentage do you come to, 200%?


Ah yes, I remember that now. It fits nicely with the Gnostic denial of God's creation of your physical body.

In my mother's womb to start with, you know Psalm 139. Do you remember all those verse I showed you where God's creation is ongoing?

I am not the one denying God created my physical body

Messy debate. Several difficult issues tangled together. I have hard time to separate them apart.

I think my body is "indirectly" created by God. This view is much better (simpler) than one which sees human is evolved from apes. God creates everything, then He stops. So our body, no matter what the process of its formation is, is NOT a new creation. Ash to ash, it just goes in cycles. In an earlier thread, I suggested that our spirit is not a new creation either.

Anyway, my point in this thread is: since we are not brand new creation by God, so, a theist may not want to be called a creationist. If you think you are a brand new person directly created by God, then you are more qualified to be called a creationist than I am.

 

[juvenissun]

But isn't that more than 100%? Either the weather patterns that we know through science did it, or God did it. If you think that God did it 100%, then how is there room for meteorology?

Yes, this would be a good analogy.

We have different weather everyday. You can not say that God keeps creating different weather at different places by hours. So is our body. Science suggested the idea of ash to ash (or start dust) cyclic process for our physical body. That is correct. So when God creates, He makes Adam the same way as He makes a bird except the additional breath. That is the ONE TIME creation. Cain and Abel are not directly created by God, just like today's weather is not directly created by God.

Meteorologist predicts the weather tomorrow does not mean he adds any new content to the weather. I have a new grandson does not mean his body is anything new.

 

[Assyrian]

Messy debate. Several difficult issues tangled together. I have hard time to separate them apart.

I think my body is "indirectly" created by God. This view is much better (simpler) than one which sees human is evolved from apes. God creates everything, then He stops. So our body, no matter what the process of its formation is, is NOT a new creation. Ash to ash, it just goes in cycles. In an earlier thread, I suggested that our spirit is not a new creation either.

Anyway, my point in this thread is: since we are not brand new creation by God, so, a theist may not want to be called a creationist. If you think you are a brand new person directly created by God, then you are more qualified to be called a creationist than I am.

You seem to be the one who doesn't want to be called a creationist, you think your body is only indirectly created by God. What sort of percentage would you assign to that?

And what is the difference between God creating 'indirectly' through through your mum and dad, and creating indirectly through evolution? Is it just that you see God using indirect means to create as somehow lessening his role as creator? That is you idea. We are perfectly happy to describe everything God creates as his work of creation - through him all things were created. It looks like your whole problem with evolution comes not from evolution but from your own denial as a creationist of God's work of creation.

 

[philadiddle]

...you think your body is only indirectly created by God. What sort of percentage would you assign to that?

And what is the difference between God creating 'indirectly' through through your mum and dad, and creating indirectly through evolution?

Juv,

These are the two questions I was going to follow up with as well.

 

[philadiddle]

Never understood why theistic evolutionists think they are somehow in a special class because they beat up on young earth creationists.

I've never thought I was in some kind of special class. It's the creationists who keep telling me that my view is blasphemous and that I don't really believe what the bible says; I feel the need to defend myself.

I've never heard a TE tell a creationist that the creationist isn't really a Christian. I hear creationists constantly telling TEs that the TEs aren't really Christians. It's the creationists who put the TEs in a different class.

 

[troodon]

As I have replied. Body is made of ash. It comes and goes. But a person is a person, which started before the conception and lasted beyond the physical life.

If the physical body doesn't matter than why do you consider it important if my physical body is the product of evolutionary design rather than divine design?

 

[shernren]

Never understood why theistic evolutionists think they are somehow in a special class because they beat up on young earth creationists.

Really don't know where you guys get that idea, you in the same boat.

I teach physics and one of my distinctive habits is to teach by asking students questions and waiting to see if they can answer. But I choose my questions carefully. The weak students I don't bother with; the average students get the kinds of questions they can expect in the exams; the bright students get the very hardest ones I can devise.

In my years here I've always felt most flattered when I get hard questions to answer. Recently Saucy raised the question of layers in glacial cores, and I had to basically learn glaciology from scratch to answer some of the more advanced questions. I felt like that thread was an excellent use of my time until she took offense at the wording of one of my posts and basically said "you're not changing your mind, I'm out of here."

Are you kidding? I'd love to have my mind changed by a creationist. There have been times when I have pointed out details which would support a creationist argument or deliberately used assumptions which are as favorable to creationists as feasible. You see, the day a creationist argues me over to creationism, I will have learned something I never knew before. It is a privilege to be proven wrong, for that gives you the opportunity to be more right than you have been up to then.

Pesky evidence keeps getting in the way though.

You know, maybe evolutionists beat up on creationists because they actually want them to learn something new. Not hate them or destroy their faith or sell them to the atheistic devil dogs or something, but to help them appreciate God's creation more by knowing right things about it than wrong things. But I guess rightness just isn't a priority for some people ...

 

[juvenissun]

You seem to be the one who doesn't want to be called a creationist, you think your body is only indirectly created by God. What sort of percentage would you assign to that?

And what is the difference between God creating 'indirectly' through through your mum and dad, and creating indirectly through evolution? Is it just that you see God using indirect means to create as somehow lessening his role as creator? That is you idea. We are perfectly happy to describe everything God creates as his work of creation - through him all things were created. It looks like your whole problem with evolution comes not from evolution but from your own denial as a creationist of God's work of creation.

So, you are a creationist, and I am not.

Very funny. Where should I begin to defend myself?