If we are not under the law we are not sinning

eleos1954 · Dec 5, 2021

HIM said:
If we are walking, being led by the spirit and are of Christ we have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Hebrews 10

15The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First He says:16“This is the covenant I will make with them

after those days, declares the Lord.
I will put My laws in their hearts
and inscribe them on their minds.”b 17Then He adds:

“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”18And where these have been forgiven, an offering for sin is no longer needed.

The law (Jesus) is alive and well. Love is the fulfillment of the law.

Paul the apostle tells his readers in Romans that love (walking in the Spirit) is the fulfillment of the law. ... And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. ' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matt 40:37–40 NIV).

We are drawn to keep the law ... it's about who is motivating you to do so ...

Thank you Jesus for all that you do! Glory be to God for Him changing hearts and minds. AMEN!

Soyeong · Dec 5, 2021

klutedavid said:
Who said that there were not moral laws in the ceremonial law.

Below is a powerful moral law. Do you interpret that law below as a ceremonial law?

Exodus 22:22
You shall not afflict any widow or orphan.

The subcategory of moral implies that the laws that aren't in that subcategory are not moral laws and are therefore moral to disobey. If there were at least one of God's laws that is not a moral law, then it would mean that it could be moral to disobey obey God, but I don't see any ground for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey God. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws, which makes the subcategory of moral law a pointless distinction. I consider Exodus 22:22 to be in regard to a moral issue along with all of God's other laws, but I don't use the subcategory of moral law because it is a pointless distinction that is only a source of confusion concerning God's word.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 5, 2021

Many of the laws, statutes, and ordinances were to prevent Israel from mixing with (or yoking to) the Gentile peoples. Since salvation is now open to the Gentiles those 'laws of separation' are meaningless.

BABerean2 · Dec 5, 2021

SabbathBlessings said:
Which laws do you think are God’s moral laws from the ceremonial laws?

Can you show the terms "moral laws", and "ceremonial laws" in the Bible, or do they come from men?

.

BNR32FAN · Dec 5, 2021

HARK! said:
So there are exceptions to "all?" How many exceptions can be made, before it is no longer defined as "all?"

“And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

HARK! · Dec 5, 2021

BNR32FAN said:
“And all the country of Judea was going out to him, and all the people of Jerusalem; and they were being baptized by him in the Jordan River, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Definition of ALL

klutedavid · Dec 5, 2021

HIM said:
Little children be not deceived. He that does righteousness is righteous even as He is righteous.

The He above is Jesus and the righteous are righteous just as he was by doing righteousness through God’s spirit. As Jesus said, there are none righteous but God, He doeth the work.

Romans 5:17
For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.

Galatians 3:21
Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.

Philippians 3:9
And may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.

The law only grants you the knowledge of your sin.

klutedavid · Dec 5, 2021

HARK! said:
Can you show me this law?

I am here to help.

Genesis 17:14
But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.

klutedavid · Dec 5, 2021

HARK! said:
Ger (גר) means foreigner.

Now that we are armed with that piece of knowledge; let's rewrite your sentence.

Q.) "Is a foreigner a resident of Israel; or is he a foreigner?

A.) A foreigner is a foreigner; but a foreigner might reside in the land of Israel.

There is a distinct difference between a sojourner (resident) and a foreigner.

So no, a foreigner cannot reside in Israel, because that person would then become a sojourner.

You must understand the difference.

Exodus 12:43
The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: no foreigner is to eat of it."

A foreigner cannot celebrate the Passover.

HARK! · Dec 5, 2021

klutedavid said:
Who said that there were not moral laws in the ceremonial law.

Below is a powerful moral law. Do you interpret that law below as a ceremonial law?

Exodus 22:22
You shall not afflict any widow or orphan.

YHWH made no distinction in his law. Do you believe that it is moral to transgress YHWH's law?

HARK! · Dec 5, 2021

klutedavid said:
I am here to help.

Genesis 17:14
But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.

Was that a trick question?

Do you realize that this instruction was given to Abraham? Do you realize that there were no "Jews" at that time?

HARK! · Dec 5, 2021

klutedavid said:
There is a distinct difference between a sojourner (resident) and a foreigner.

So no, a foreigner cannot reside in Israel, because that person would then become a sojourner.

You must understand the difference.

Exodus 12:43
The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “This is the ordinance of the Passover: no foreigner is to eat of it."

A foreigner cannot celebrate the Passover.

Interesting. Do you realize that the uncircumcised Ger toshav may not partake of the Passover?

(CLV) Ex 12:48
In case a sojourner is sojourning with you, and he makes a passover to Yahweh, every male of his is to be circumcised, and then he may draw near to make it, and he will become as a native of the land. Yet anyone uncircumcised, he shall not eat of it.

Ger toshav (Hebrew: גר תושב‎, ger: "foreigner" or "alien" + toshav: "resident", lit. "resident alien")[1][2][3][4]

Ger toshav - Wikipedia

chad kincham · Dec 6, 2021

HIM said:
Deliberately faulty? On Israel’s part NOT God’s. For He found fault with them. The Context is better promises. It is no longer a thus saith us, all that the Lord saith we will do. But a thus saith the Lord , I will put my laws in their hearts and minds. I will be to them God and they shall be to me a people.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Hebrews 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

The first covenant was not faultless, thus it was faulty, deliberately so - it was a yoke of burden, and bondage.

And the Decalogue, called the covenant on tables of stone, ministered death and condemnation, 2 Corinthians 3.

BNR32FAN · Dec 6, 2021

HARK! said:
Definition of ALL

So the Pharisees went to be baptized? Pontiff Pilot and the Roman guards were baptized? What about Paul, was he baptized by JTB?

OldWiseGuy · Dec 6, 2021

BABerean2 said:
Can you show the terms "moral laws", and "ceremonial laws" in the Bible, or do they come from men?

.

I think those differences are implicit in the terms commands, judgments, and statutes.

BABerean2 · Dec 6, 2021

OldWiseGuy said:
I think those differences are implicit in the terms commands, judgments, and statutes.

The 4th commandment was given to the children of Israel after they left Egypt.
See Deuteronomy 5:3.
It was the "sign" of the Sinai Covenant.
It was the "shadow" of the rest we now have from Christ's work at Calvary. I do not have to rest one day a week from my efforts to keep the Sinai Covenant perfectly.

Col 2:16 Let no one, then, judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a feast, or of a new moon, or of sabbaths,
Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the coming things, and the body is of the Christ;

In Galatians 4:24-31 Paul told the Galatian believers to "cast out" the Sinai Covenant of "bondage".

We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but we are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24. The same concept is found in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8.

.

klutedavid · Dec 6, 2021

HARK! said:
Was that a trick question?

Certainly not a trick question. God made it very clear that any of Abraham's descendants who were not circumcised, were covenant breakers.

Genesis 17:14
But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken My covenant.

That is a direct commandment given to Abraham within the Abrahamic covenant.

The law above was given to Abraham for all his descendants. That includes the Jews, before and after, the law given at Mt Sinai. In the law of Moses, the law of circumcision, carried the same penalty for transgressing the commandment.

klutedavid · Dec 6, 2021

HARK! said:
Interesting. Do you realize that the uncircumcised Ger toshav may not partake of the Passover?

(CLV) Ex 12:48
In case a sojourner is sojourning with you, and he makes a passover to Yahweh, every male of his is to be circumcised, and then he may draw near to make it, and he will become as a native of the land. Yet anyone uncircumcised, he shall not eat of it.

Ger toshav (Hebrew: גר תושב‎, ger: "foreigner" or "alien" + toshav: "resident", lit. "resident alien")[1][2][3][4]

Ger toshav - Wikipedia

A foreigner is prohibited from obeying the law. A sojourner who becomes circumcised (citizenship) can then proceed to obey the law.

Foreigners are not under the law of Moses but a willing sojourner can be.

A foreigner is not a sojourner, they have a different definition.

klutedavid · Dec 6, 2021

HARK! said:
YHWH made no distinction in his law. Do you believe that it is moral to transgress YHWH's law?

I cannot transgress any law that God has ever given, that is impossible.

Galatians 5:14
For the whole Law is fulfilled in one word, in the statement, “YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”

If you love your neighbor as Christ loved us, you have fulfilled the law in the extreme.

We are not striving to be moral or ethical, we are striving to love others unconditionally.

klutedavid · Dec 6, 2021

Soyeong said:
The subcategory of moral implies that the laws that aren't in that subcategory are not moral laws and are therefore moral to disobey. If there were at least one of God's laws that is not a moral law, then it would mean that it could be moral to disobey obey God, but I don't see any ground for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey God. Morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws, which makes the subcategory of moral law a pointless distinction. I consider Exodus 22:22 to be in regard to a moral issue along with all of God's other laws, but I don't use the subcategory of moral law because it is a pointless distinction that is only a source of confusion concerning God's word.

So why do certain church organizations use these categories, moral, ceremonial, commandment, to undermine the law?

If we are not under the law we are not sinning

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