Nope, I'm not talking about hate, I'm talking about villification, pure and simple.
Yes, I believe there are a great many people out there who genuinely hate homosexuals, and justify their hate with the Bible. But (and follow me here) I have less of a problem with people who hate homosexuals than with people who villify them. We can hate anyone we like, so long as you keep it to yourself. Indeed, I believe there is virtue in hating someone and overcoming that feeling and treating that person with respect and love. Vilifying people is something else. Saying that anyone is an abomination, or a sinner, or unnatural, or aberant, or perverted, or any of the other homophobic buzz terms that fly around is villifying, and thats against the commandment to love your neighbour. All such terms are built on judgement of someone else as a sinner, and condemning them for it. Christ repeatedly told us that it is not our place to judge others for their sin, and that even if we do believe someone is a sinner, we are to forgive them unconditionally. You don't have to approve of it. You just have to acknowledge that someone's sexuality is only relevent to that person, their partner(s) and God. It isn't any of your business. I am regulalry condemned around here for "supporting" homosexuality, but I tell you I have never done any such thing. All I do is advocate for homosexuals to have equal rights and not to be villified. Think of it this way... I hate cigarettes and smoking. Hate it. Utterly and completely, and there is absolutely nothing you can say to me to make me think smoking is acceptible or a good thing. However, I fully acknowledge that it is not my place to tell smokers what they should or should not do with their money and bodies. If you want to smoke, be my guest. If someone trys to ban smoking, I'll fight that ban. Why? Because people should be allowed to do what they like so long as they don't harm non consenting 3rd parties. I believe that is the practical application of the "love thy neighbour" commandment. I'm sorry that you can't see how perpetuating stereotypes and justifying hatred (whether you hate or not, there are people out there who will justify their own hatred because of people with your POV), making people live like second class citizens, calling them all manner of names, making them feel like outsiders, bullying and marginalising people, is not "loving your neighbour".
Oh boy. Christ did not command us to hate anyone and hatred is not allowed even if you keep it to yourself when you are a Christian. That is not Christlike and that is unloving. Calling something "perverted", "unnatural" and "sinner" is not vilifying that person, if so, the Godhead have some explaining to do. Because we see in scripture where God used the words "pervert", "unnatural", "abomination" and "sinners" speaking of us and how we are corrupted when we sin. But at every time He tells us that He has made a way for our sins to be forgiven. People can and have use those words for hatred never once telling people the power of salvation that is found in Christ, but I can't stop what people choose to do, whether it is the expression of their opinions or the continuation of their sins, but I can continue telling them the truth of Christ.
I seriously believe that sometimes people don't understand judgment in the way that the bible judgment. Many people use Matthew 7:1-6 and say see Christ said "
And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plant in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eyes'; and look a plant is in your own eye?"... therefore you are not allowed to judge....But many forget the following verses that says "
Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eyes, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." At no point does Christ say do not judge ever, it says that your judgment should not be hypocritical. Romans 2:1 tells us what is the wrong judgment, "
Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things."
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 says
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortionernot even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore put away from yourselves the evil person. Calling someone out for being sexual immoral, covetous, extortioners or idolaters, though it is judgment, is not condemnation. It's like saying "Oh, your a thief", I am not condemning you, if you steal something you are a thief by definition.
By the way, what is my point of view that people are using to justify their hatred? I'm curious to know.
I am the type of person that if you ask me my opinion, I will give you my opinion. If you ask me what God thinks, then I will go to the bible and tell you what the word says. If you don't like it, you can reject it, that's on you. But don't think that God is going to be okay with doing what He said not to do simply because you didn't like the message. If someone ask me to vote on a particular bill, I will vote based on my opinions and belief, if it is something that will go against the will of God, I will side with God, and if the world disagrees, then they are free to, but again, a vote does not change the commandments of God at the end, we are still judged by those commandments. And you are under the impression that if a cigarette ban is passed that it means people will cease from smoking, that's not the case. A ban says "you are not allowed to do x" but it does not mean that people will not do "x", if that was the case, the Israelites would have followed the Old law perfectly. If a bill is presented to me and ask my vote on whether marriage should be defined as one man and on woman, I will say yes, because that is what I see in scripture. If this bill is passed, at no time does that mean every homosexual person, that is in a relationship, will stop dating. And if this bill is rejected, at no time does it mean that God have somehow changed His definition of what a marriage should be anything that goes against what He have asked is still sin in His eyes and we still need Christ's blood to cleanses us from sin.
Can you honestly say that you apply such a view equally? How many posts have you made against homosexuality? Well, Biblically, divorce is far more unambiguously a sin. How many anti-divorce posts have you made? I could go on, but suffice to say, I see a lot of time and energy spoent condemning homosexuality, while other, far more clearly sinful, behaviours and activities don't even rate a mention.
I can honestly tell you that if scripture call something sin, that I apply the view equality. That it is sin and that we need the blood of Christ to cleanse us for sin and that change can only occur when you have given your life over to Him and allow Him to use you as He sees fit. But there are some things that I know are sin and that I am struggling with but at no time do I try and justify that sin. Justifying it isn't going to get me anywhere near to Christ.
I have never made a post about homosexuality, but rest assure that sin is not ambiguous, it clearly states it's a sin just like divorcing someone except for adultery is sin. I have never made an anti-divorce post. I don't like making post, but I like to reply to them if they catch my attention. I might not post on a particular topic but it doesn't mean that I don't think it's sin (if indeed scripture consider it sin) nonetheless.
I'm happy to accept ANYONE's views as valid, even the most brutally homophobic, or racist, or mysogynist... IF they don't involve a double standard. It is double standards that I have the real problem with. People who condemn homosexuals as sinners and so on, yet complain about having to pay taxes, for example. Seems there is an awful lot of justification of pre existing thoughts with the Bible, and claiming to have the message right, while ignoring the bits of the Bible that are inconvenient. Paul condemning homosexuality is utterly literal and cannot be interpreted any other way. Paul saying women are to keep quiet and no woman can ever teach a man is metaphorical, and doesn't mean what it says, and things like that.
I do not accept everyone's view nor do I consider them valid. I understand people's view points but by no means does that understanding means that I accept their view points. Because I understand that people have conflicting view points and accepting those views will be conflicting in my life, I can't accept people's points but I can certainly respect that it is their views. When it comes to God and what scripture says, I accept what scripture says. If someone thinks differently, they are entitled to that (though if they are Christians and teach something contrary to scripture, I consider their teaching false and I have to say something) but most of the time it is mostly misunderstanding of scripture that I see in both myself and others. And I like to be corrected if I am saying something false because I always want to know the truth of God's word.
As for "People who condemn homosexuals as sinners and so on, yet complain about having to pay taxes," I don't see how that is a double standard but okay.
And for " Paul condemning homosexuality is utterly literal and cannot be interpreted any other way. Paul saying women are to keep quiet and no woman can ever teach a man is metaphorical, and doesn't mean what it says, and things like that."
They both should be taken as literal for the context demands it. But when you read what Paul says women keeping silent and not allowing to teach and preach to men, you see that it is in the context of how we should worship, when we come together as a body of Christ. For it can not certainly mean that women are not allowed to teach ever because we see Priscilla and her husband Aquila ministering to Apollos om Acts 18:22-onward.
"Seems there is an awful lot of justification of pre existing thoughts with the Bible, and claiming to have the message right, while ignoring the bits of the Bible that are inconvenient."
I think that's why we should accept the word of God exactly how it, even if it condemns us for what we do, for He has given us a way of salvation, and not try to justify all those little inconvenience to fit our wants.
