If we accept evolution, then where will we get our morality?

[dad]

No, but neither do Jewish people, and they definitely worship an earlier ideal of the same deity that you do.

Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Many Jews do know that. The Old Testament tells of a time when the nation will be saved...(htat means they were not saved before this point)


Better sit down for this one..


Zec 12:10 -And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Additionally, if god can be interpreted differently, then why not Jesus? Many religions have figures that are resurrected, healed the sick, etc.

Jesus fulfilled many hundreds of Scriptures precisely. No one else could ever do that. He also made it clear He was the only way to the Father. One cannot invent another Jesus with the same name and have it work.

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'll try to remember that one.


Poes and generals and kinds and etc too. I know. However, the marks of being anti Christ are pretty clear.





Obama At National Prayer Breakfast: ?People Committed Terrible Deeds In The Name of Christ? - Breitbart



Brandenburg Gate Controversy: Obama Reacts to Debate in Berlin - SPIEGEL ONLINE

White House Drone Plan Reveals Obama's 'Hypocrisy'

I got rid of the ones I knew to be biased sites or just tabloid like sites, and I am not sure about the remaining. And I know that getting good sources can be hard, but come on, FOX news, really?

Also one of those was about Joe Biden, not Obama. Everyone knows Biden be crazy.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Jesus is the God of the Old Testament. Many Jews do know that. The Old Testament tells of a time when the nation will be saved...(htat means they were not saved before this point)


Better sit down for this one..


Zec 12:10 -And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
Jesus fulfilled many hundreds of Scriptures precisely. No one else could ever do that. He also made it clear He was the only way to the Father. One cannot invent another Jesus with the same name and have it work.

They don't have the same name, but frankly, how do you know Jesus is even the right name?

 

[Split Rock]

It's enough.

Anything that can get the attention of scientists (who allegedly are "morally neutral" on Biblical issues) enough to want them removed from public property is sufficient, as far as I'm concerned.

This sentence doesn't make sense to me... what are you trying to say???

 

[JacksBratt]

Most christians already accept the theory of evolution. You might as well argue that accepting the idea of the Earth moving about the Sun would require us to throw away Bibles.

You should rephrase that to say that a lot of people who believe in evolution claim that they are Christians....

Mathew 7:21 to 23

True and False Disciples

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

 

[DerelictJunction]

You should rephrase that to say that a lot of people who believe in evolution claim that they are Christians....

Mathew 7:21 to 23

True and False Disciples

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

So, how do you know you aren't one of those that Jesus "never knew"?

 

[Subduction Zone]

You should rephrase that to say that a lot of people who believe in evolution claim that they are Christians....

Mathew 7:21 to 23

True and False Disciples

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

You are not one to judge who is and how is not a Christian. Loudmouth was right. You seem to forget that it was Christians that attacked Galileo. I am sure I could pull up others if I wanted to go through history. At best your claim is that they are not Christians because they are not your sort of Christians. For debates here I use the local rules of what a Christian is. If a person claims to be a Christian here one is not to say that he is not. If I were to point to a specific member that claimed to be a Christian and said that he was not I would get a ban for doing so.

How are any of these people that accept science not true Christians?

 

[JacksBratt]

People were behaving properly in peaceful socieites before the Bible was written. The Bible is an expression of the moral code that already exists within humanity. The Bible did not create morality. Morality created the Bible.

This is due to the fact that the moral code and the knowledge of right and wrong is written in our heart and soul.

We are born knowing, the Bible confirmed and outlined it in detail.

For this reason none will be without excuse.

Also: Romans 2: 14 to 16

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[PsychoSarah]

This is due to the fact that the moral code and the knowledge of right and wrong is written in our heart and soul.

We are born knowing, the Bible confirmed and outlined it in detail.

For this reason none will be without excuse.

Also: Romans 2: 14 to 16

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

There are literally people born incapable of telling right from wrong to various degrees with otherwise normal thought processes. And a number of disorders are associated with it. There is not a single personality trait that all humans are born with.

 

[JacksBratt]

?? The US is a country with antiChrist leadership right now, and is engaged in terrorism (drones). God is not on it's side as a nation. That tired old outdated passe myth really should be put to rest.

Exactly, this is because their money says "In God We Trust" but their government is tossing God aside.

 

[JacksBratt]

Counter idea, couldn't, from your perspective, the gods of other religions actually be the christian god as interpreted by other people? That or angels which aren't necessarily fallen? Why do they have to be demons?

This would be a tad confusing...

To tell Hindu's that there is reincarnation while Christians are told that every man is appointed once to die.

Buddhists worship a human, God said have no other god's before me.

 

[PsychoSarah]

This would be a tad confusing...

To tell Hindu's that there is reincarnation while Christians are told that every man is appointed once to die.

Buddhists worship a human, God said have no other god's before me.

uh... not all Buddhists worship Buddha. They view him as a spiritual leader, and enlightened thinker, not a deity. From that perspective, god would be literally everything; the universe and all within it. And that is what came first. The other branch which is like what you say might be a potential, though unintentional, result of exposure to other religions, such as Christianity.

Maybe reincarnation was a thing before salvation to prevent everyone from burning in hell, who knows? Just to comment, it could be the "die once thing that is wrong", you have no claim on your religious doctrine being the most accurate one, let alone perfectly accurate in every way, in this sort of scenario. And it isn't like the bible just by itself doesn't have confusing moments. How did Saul die? Did he kill himself? Did someone else kill him? What was the way he died? I swear, there are at least 3 different ones given in the bible.

 

[JacksBratt]

Duplicate

 

[JacksBratt]

This is actually incorrect. A number of mental disorders are associated with or even distinguished by a lack of ability to tell right from wrong.

People with mental disorders are sick ( not in a demeaning way ). They will be judged on their ability to cope with their own "reality".

That pretty much is our world right now, and yes, it creates a lot of chaos. No one has an identical sense of morality to any other person, regardless as to beliefs or upbringing.

We all know the basics. Enough to have a functioning society. The nits and picks could be argued.

Meh, I would say our world is reaching a crossroads where key decisions will lead us one way or another, but I wouldn't say we are already on the path to destruction with no turning back.

I disagree. We are way past the point of no return.... way past.

Seeing as the bible can be inconsistent on what is right and what is wrong, it doesn't really help. Worse, people have used it to justify atrocities. But you seem to be forgetting something very important: civilization predates the bible by more than a thousand years.

As you are not a believer, no offense, just a fact, then, you are unable to "see" the whole truth of the scriptures. Your rebellious heart blinds you from the fact that there is no inconsistencies in the Bible.

In my other post in this thread.....

Originally Posted by Loudmouth

People were behaving properly in peaceful socieites before the Bible was written. The Bible is an expression of the moral code that already exists within humanity. The Bible did not create morality. Morality created the Bible.
​

This is due to the fact that the moral code and the knowledge of right and wrong is written in our heart and soul.

We are born knowing, the Bible confirmed and outlined it in detail.

For this reason none will be without excuse.

Also: Romans 2: 14 to 16

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

 

[Loudmouth]

I hear what you are saying and I agree that removing the Bible removes any foundation for moral action and consequence.

Then how are Hindu's able to be moral people without the Bible?

This would be the inner conflict within the person. The conflict between the morals that are hard wired into our soul and mind by God. God says that nobody will have an excuse and one of the reasons is that all humans know deep down, the difference between right and wrong. It is imprinted in us by our creator.

Those are beliefs, and they aren't necessary in order to use the morality that we already have.

Imagine a world where the benchmark for right and wrong is floating around, never a solid foundation. Morals will be dictated by the governing body while your inner mind and soul tells you that there is something off.

The system you are pushing has the clergy dictating the morals based on the writings of men. I don't see how that is an improvement.

It would seem to me that the best way is to use our own sense of morality, and then debate those issues in an open forum where we can find general consensus.

 

[Loudmouth]

This is due to the fact that the moral code and the knowledge of right and wrong is written in our heart and soul.

Then we don't need the Bible, or any religion for that matter, in order to discover a moral code.

 

[Gottservant]

I would actually take this question one step further and apply it:

shouldn't we be testing morals against some sort of selection pressure we are familiar with, in order that the strongest morality survive?

If evolution is true?

 

[Loudmouth]

I would actually take this question one step further and apply it:

shouldn't we be testing morals against some sort of selection pressure we are familiar with, in order that the strongest morality survive?

If evolution is true?

If gravity is true, should we be throwing people off of tall buildings?

 

[PsychoSarah]

People with mental disorders are sick ( not in a demeaning way ). They will be judged on their ability to cope with their own "reality".




We all know the basics. Enough to have a functioning society. The nits and picks could be argued.



I disagree. We are way past the point of no return.... way past.



As you are not a believer, no offense, just a fact, then, you are unable to "see" the whole truth of the scriptures. Your rebellious heart blinds you from the fact that there is no inconsistencies in the Bible.

In my other post in this thread.....

Originally Posted by Loudmouth

People were behaving properly in peaceful socieites before the Bible was written. The Bible is an expression of the moral code that already exists within humanity. The Bible did not create morality. Morality created the Bible.
​

This is due to the fact that the moral code and the knowledge of right and wrong is written in our heart and soul.

We are born knowing, the Bible confirmed and outlined it in detail.

For this reason none will be without excuse.

Also: Romans 2: 14 to 16

14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Oh, so a mass murdering sociopath is given a free pass because they don't view their actions as intrinsically wrong?

What basics? That killing people is wrong? Nope, not consistent in societies at all, you can even find a few where the refusal to kill people is considered more atrocious. That rape is wrong? Not even close, there are still areas of Africa in which men claim their brides by raping them. That stealing is wrong? That one can get so complicated that you can get a different answer from the same person by rephrasing the same situation. I challenge you to find any sense of morality that is consistent amongst our species, because I sure haven't found any.

It was an opinion statement from me, and now we have one from you. Neither of us can really claim to be right on this one.

Could it not be your bias in favor of the text that blinds you to seeing its flaws? I have no motivation to see the text as flawed, but you have plenty of motivation to see it as perfect.

And I already showed that there isn't any consistency to morality and not everyone is born with the capacity to understand morals.

Besides, the bible already states that NO PERSON IS MORAL (enough for god). Literally, the text itself condemns all of humanity to hell unless people believe. So, if anything, the bible says that all humans are inherently SINFUL.

 

[True Scotsman]

I am open and respectful to all beliefs and ideas. That's why, if someone genuinely wants to live in a world where every morning you need to dodge Molotov cocktails on the way to work while a band of mutants with Mohawks chase you in a jeep with the intention of capturing you and selling you on the human slave market, then that is their right, and I respect their opinion.

But what about the rest of us? What about those of us who still want to live in a society where murder, theft, and jaywalking is illegal?

If we accept the theory of evolution, then how will we be able to live as a peaceful society of people? Obviously, once evolution is accepted, bibles will be seized and taken from us. Then after that happens, people won't be able to read the bible to know how to behave properly, because the bible is the book that taught us it's not good to live in a society where all court cases are settled via gladiatorial combat.

How do evolutionists plan to live in such a Godless world?

Is it really worth the cost? If so, then I hope you know how to wield an axe or a broadsword, because that's exactly the kind of thing you'll need after the atheists rediscover the use of black magic and create an army of unicorn pirates.

Morals are principles defining what actions are proper to men. Moral principles are knowledge just like any principle. We get principles by observation, induction, by science. Why is the proper way for a man to act to achieve life any different than the proper way to act to grow a crop, build a house or send a probe to Mars. Would you start a crop by pouring acid on the ground that you just planted or would you send a probe to Mars by filling the engine with marshmallows? No you would not, not if you wanted to succeed? You wouldn't because you know from observation that these things have to be done in a particular way and any other way will lead to disaster. It's no different with moral principles. Life requires a specific course of action and any other course will destroy it. All we need to do is know what man is and what conditions are required for his life to be successful and then apply these principles to daily life.

I would say that a god in the picture actually destroys morality. If morality comes from an authority then you end up with a set of commandments instead of principles and you have no guidance at all in day to day life except what not to do.