If there was a straight pill would homosexuals take it?

Crazy Liz · Oct 9, 2008

Inviolable said:
I dont know it could be. I have noticed a slightly different moral stance in the U.K. then in the U.S. On a few different subjects. Public opinion does tend to change how people live.
But I left so I could go to sleep.
O.K. I'll explain it but I doubt it will be understood, guess I'm trying to find a good way to explain it. That's another reason I wanted to wait, but no new ideas are forthcoming.
Believe it or not I have a few gay friends who say, they understand where I'm coming from.
One of them works at a gay bar as a bouncer and offers me the odd job here or there at the bar, the pay is pretty good for one nights work.
So I rarely turn it down.
At any rate I have been able to witness several gay men, who seemed really horny. Let me tell you, most horny gay guys are really persistent.
Even my gay friends don't agree with it. I'm not saying all gay guys are like that, but quite a few.
The first or second "no" hardly ever works. It's always when they leave that you don't have to worry about them any more.
This is just my personal experience and I'm not trying to slam gay guys.
I'm just pointing out how irrational it seems and that it seems to happen a lot.

Because of my personal experience I believe homosexuals are incapable of understanding that some hetero's simply don't want to have sex with them.
Which can and does put them in a bad spot.
If I even see a woman outside of my league, I know it and don't bother to approach her. I know of very few hetero men who wouldn't agree with that. But more often then not, when a gay guy wants more then just chit chat, they don't seem to know what it means to give up.

You say most gay guys aren't like that.

I'm a heterosexual woman & I've been hit on by guys who wouldn't give up, too. It is very annoying. Sometimes it's scary. I remember making a quick exit from a restaurant one night as soon as the guy at the next table went to the bathroom & asking the maitre d' to make sure the guy didn't follow me. I was so shook up I spent an hour looking for my car in the wrong parking garage.

Some guys are what you call "horny" & will not stop, but most are respectful. You don't seem to realize straight guys can behave the same way.

pgp_protector · Oct 9, 2008

Inviolable said:
You're jumping to conclusions here. I'm hetero but.. Ask any guy and they'll tell you they have a horny friend who will sleep with just about anyone. Homosexual males are no different. According to you they shouldn't be anyway.
Just about every teenage male on the planet only thinks about sex, gay men aren't any different.
And females always act passionately when it comes to finding Mr. Right, or Miss. Right.

1)None of my friends that I've known throughout my life would "sleep with just about anyone" so sorry, there's one incorrect fact you just stated.

2) Wrong again, quite a few teenage males (including me when I was a teen) didn't only think about sex.

pgp_protector · Oct 9, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
Can someone define "evolutionary error?"

As I understand the theories of evolution and natural selection, that phrase seems to be an oxymoron.

As far as I know given that Evolution doesn't have a goal it's sorta hard for there to be an "evolutionary error"

Now there can be genetic copying errors, but that's one of the things that causes evolution.

Crazy Liz · Oct 9, 2008

pgp_protector said:
As far as I know given that Evolution doesn't have a goal it's sorta hard for there to be an "evolutionary error"

Now there can be genetic copying errors, but that's one of the things that causes evolution.

That's what I thought.

Inviolable · Oct 9, 2008

EnemyPartyII said:
Care to place a small wager?

Hey, if you've had the experience, you've had the experience.

I did say, you're female and probably know more then me.

Inviolable · Oct 9, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
Can someone define "evolutionary error?"

As I understand the theories of evolution and natural selection, that phrase seems to be an oxymoron.

This is to address some other guys post as well.

Natural selection is selective. If something makes it through that wasn't selected, it's an error.

Inviolable · Oct 9, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
The same way heterosexuals who come from the womb heterosexual can be trusted not to try and push heterosexuality on someone who isn't heterosexual for their own interest?

Yes but there is a difference. One can be a mistake in the womb and one cant. Guess which one?

Inviolable · Oct 9, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
This is all about you imagining sex with that person every time you get hit on?

Funny.

One, it isnt just one person and two, it makes for a poor argument.
The number of different people could play a factor. Which, it does.

I imagine I dream about homosexual sex as much as you or any other hetero does, which is never.

Crazy Liz · Oct 9, 2008

Inviolable said:
This is to address some other guys post as well.

Natural selection is selective. If something makes it through that wasn't selected, it's an error.

Maybe this is a little too much of a tangent, though. Could you explain further in this thread? http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=48931349#post48931349

Inviolable · Oct 9, 2008

pgp_protector said:
1)None of my friends that I've known throughout my life would "sleep with just about anyone" so sorry, there's one incorrect fact you just stated.

It's not fact on either side, it's opinion. You have your personal experience and I have mine. So, you're wrong... neener neener neener.

2) Wrong again, quite a few teenage males (including me when I was a teen) didn't only think about sex.

Once again, personal opinion and not fact. I am talking about what I hear and see other people do and while teenagers dont "only" think about it. It's on their mind more often then not.

Dont cut me off and be ignorant enough to think that your personal experience hold more weight then mine. That only makes for a moron.
I never said it was universal and in fact I pointed out it was my own personal experience and probably wouldn't be understood.

Not everyone lives in the same box, which is what you're trying to claim here. Which is universally ignorant.

Crazy Liz · Oct 9, 2008

Inviolable said:
Yes but there is a difference. One can be a mistake in the womb and one cant. Guess which one?

Mistake in the womb?

But again, maybe that's better discussed in the other thread.

Inviolable · Oct 9, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
Maybe this is a little too much of a tangent, though. Could you explain further in this thread? http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=48931349#post48931349

I'll try and explain it here. It could mean nothing, I read it in the L.A. Journal.
For all I know the author was trying out a word he thought would make it big.
For the life of me I can't find it again.

Natural selection is the process by which favorable heritable traits become more common in successive generations of a population of reproducing organisms, and unfavorable heritable traits become less common

The traits that make it through that weren't meant to.
It actually happens a lot.

pgp_protector · Oct 9, 2008

Inviolable said:
It's not fact on either side, it's opinion. You have your personal experience and I have mine. So, you're wrong... neener neener neener.

Once again, personal opinion and not fact. I am talking about what I hear and see other people do and while teenagers dont "only" think about it. It's on their mind more often then not.

Dont cut me off and be ignorant enough to think that your personal experience hold more weight then mine. That only makes for a moron.
I never said it was universal and in fact I pointed out it was my own personal experience and probably wouldn't be understood.

Not everyone lives in the same box, which is what you're trying to claim here. Which is universally ignorant.

You did not state it as an opinion, but as a fact.

Ask any guy and they'll tell you they have a horny friend who will sleep with just about anyone. Homosexual males are no different

Inviolable · Oct 9, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
Mistake in the womb?

Umm, yeah. again from the L.A. Journal... I left a link some where in this thread. So that one I can find again, or you can.
But it wasn't only in the L.A. Journal. Being left handed can come from the same thing, but being left handed comes from a few different sources.
I think it's likely that homosexuality doesn't come from a single source.
I think it happens differently for different people. Some sources might be more likely then others to cause it but not all cases of homosexuality are alike.

But again, maybe that's better discussed in the other thread.

Why not here?

Inviolable · Oct 9, 2008

pgp_protector said:
You did not state it as an opinion, but as a fact.

O.K. ask any guy with a heightened social life.

OllieFranz · Oct 9, 2008

Inviolable said:
This is to address some other guys post as well.

Natural selection is selective. If something makes it through that wasn't selected, it's an error.

Natural selection is blind selection. If something "makes it through," then it was "selected." It may not make sense to someone's theory of how things "should" evolve, but it was selected.

However, it is often makes more sense than at first it seems, but there is a trade-off. For example, the same gene that causes scicle-cell anemia protects against a worse disease. And one of the genes suspected of contributing to a predisposition to homosexuality in men appears to increase fertility in women. So the trade off is that for a slight chance that your son won't produce grandchildren for you, there is a definite increase in the number of grandchildren your daughter produces, and that produces a net gain.

Crazy Liz · Oct 9, 2008

Inviolable said:
Umm, yeah. again from the L.A. Journal... I left a link some where in this thread. So that one I can find again, or you can.
But it wasn't only in the L.A. Journal. Being left handed can come from the same thing, but being left handed comes from a few different sources.
I think it's likely that homosexuality doesn't come from a single source.
I think it happens differently for different people. Some sources might be more likely then others to cause it but not all cases of homosexuality are alike.

Why not here?

Because this forum is for debates about homosexuality, and my question doesn't deal specifically with homosexuality. I thought members who know more about evolution might be found in the forum for discussion of evolution.

And because the question of whether the phrase "evolutionary error" has any meaning does not directly relate to whether or not gays would take a pill to make them straight.

Inviolable · Oct 9, 2008

I like this article, it explains it kind of nicely.
http://evolgen.blogspot.com/2005/06/random-mutation-and-natural-selection.html

Its important to understand that when biologists say the mutational process is random, we mean that it is not directed. There is nothing determining definitively that a mutation will occur at a particular nucleotide. Mutations provide the raw material on which natural selection acts. Natural selection is a deterministic process; a beneficial mutation will always reach fixation in an ideal population

http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/futuyma.html

First, there is simply no difference between the different genotypes or different genes in their impact on survival or reproduction, and in that case, you can have random changes of one versus the other type in a population or a species until eventually one replaces the other. That is an evolutionary change. It happens entirely by chance, by random fluctuations. That is what we call the process of genetic drift.

Genetic drift is very different from possibility number two, natural selection, which is a much more consistent, predictable, dependable change in the proportion of one gene vs. another, one genotype vs. another. Why? Simply because there is some consistent superiority, shall we way, of one genotype vs. another in some feature that affects its survival or some feature affecting its reproductive capabilities.

Inviolable · Oct 9, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
Because this forum is for debates about homosexuality, and my question doesn't deal specifically with homosexuality. I thought members who know more about evolution might be found in the forum for discussion of evolution.

And because the question of whether the phrase "evolutionary error" has any meaning does not directly relate to whether or not gays would take a pill to make them straight.

O.K.

Nevermind, they told you the same thing I did.

Texas Lynn · Oct 9, 2008

Crazy Liz said:
Can someone define "evolutionary error?"

As I understand the theories of evolution and natural selection, that phrase seems to be an oxymoron.

I guess it's kind of like saying "If you are pregnant, and you know you're going to have a gay baby, you should abort it," just like some must've said or wanted to say to Palin about having a Down's Syndrome baby.

If there was a straight pill would homosexuals take it?

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