If the universe is <10,000 old....

[Keachian]

If anyone is interested the inventor of the "gene gun" John Sanford has a computer model for modeling mutations and he found something interesting when he went back in time with it. Progmonk the alleged mechanism a fish turned into a person is "neofunctionalization" if you direct link a literature on that ill read it.

You are limiting the providence of God, you say that x is impossible, or that y is impossible, yet For man these things are impossible, but for God all things are possible.

and as Fisher said in the first sentence of his (1930) book, “natural selection is not evolution.” Full quote from the literature. It doesnt matter whether you call it that or not it cant make anything novel.

I have given you a link to a youtube video series that talks about this, I'd agree with you that Natural Selection does not create anything new, it is mutations within the genome that are "new" that are then "selected" through Natural Selection.

 

[samaus12345]

Media stories/youtube videos/peoples blog=worthless if you first SKIM a peer reviewed literature then link it i will read it. I have to restrict my understanding of what happened in the (for me its unobserved) past to what is written in genesis.

 

[Keachian]

Media stories/youtube videos/peoples blog=worthless if you first SKIM a peer reviewed literature then link it i will read it.

I'm not going to do your footwork for you if you only want journal articles then the onus is on you to trawl through the large amounts of literature to find the stuff you are after. Also all you've given me in regards to trying to get me to deny evolution is misrepresentations of peer reviewed literature and media stories/youtube videos and peoples blogs.

I have to restrict my understanding of what happened in the (for me its unobserved) past to what is written in genesis.

To what you think is written in Genesis, of course then the problem is is the Bible primarily concerned with History, if so then why are so many Israelite King's reigns shortened down and not commented upon because they sought after other Gods, or is it concerned with theology, in which case the above is perfectly understandable. Another argument is that if it is concerned with History then why does it stop where it does, that is part way through Paul's final mission and not continue on to today? After all the reformation didn't happen, it's not recorded in scripture, (albeit with the carry on that goes on in some reformed circles it is a wonder that people actually affirm that it did)

 

[samaus12345]

"If so then why are so many Israelite King's reigns shortened down and not commented upon because they sought after other Gods, or is it concerned with theology"

What are you comparing them to by saying "shortened down"?

 

[samaus12345]

Neofunctionalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Neofunctionalization, one of the possible outcomes of functional divergence, occurs when one gene copy, or paralog, takes on a totally new function after a gene duplication event. Neofunctionalization is an adaptive mutation process; meaning one of the gene copies must mutate to develop a function that was not present in the ancestral gene.

This is one the literature articles Wiki cites for that statement, they have links down the bottom of the page for the corresponding citation number, this is number 1.

PLoS Genetics: Subfunctionalization of Duplicated Zebrafish pax6 Genes by cis-Regulatory Divergence

"Studying the zebrafish small eyed mutant &#8220;sunrise,&#8221; we identified the causative amino acid change in the pax6b gene. This mutation leads to reduced DNA binding capacity. There are two closely related pax6 genes in zebrafish, pax6a and pax6b, which arose following a whole-genome duplication event about 350 million years ago; they map to different chromosomes. Each copy is now associated with a different subset of the neighbouring genes found associated with all vertebrate single-copy Pax6 genes. The expression patterns of pax6a and pax6b have diverged from each other since the duplication event. "

When did this event "happen"

 

[samaus12345]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neofunctionalization#cite_note-29Double post accidentally.

 

[samaus12345]

NGC


Orion Foundation: Ten Censored Papers

This guy has a creation model+death blow evidence to the big bang but they didnt let him publish his papers. You or Martyr might of already read it i guess but not sure.

 

[Keachian]

"If so then why are so many Israelite King's reigns shortened down and not commented upon because they sought after other Gods, or is it concerned with theology"

What are you comparing them to by saying "shortened down"?

Well just as an example, here's the reign of Abijam a total of three years:
Now in the eighteenth year of King Jeroboam the son of Nebat, Abijam began to reign over Judah. He reigned for three years in Jerusalem. His mother's name was Maacah the daughter of Abishalom. And he walked in all the sins that his father did before him, and his heart was not wholly true to the LORD his God, as the heart of David his father. Nevertheless, for David's sake the LORD his God gave him a lamp in Jerusalem, setting up his son after him, and establishing Jerusalem, because David did what was right in the eyes of the LORD and did not turn aside from anything that he commanded him all the days of his life, except in the matter of Uriah the Hittite. Now there was war between Rehoboam and Jeroboam all the days of his life. The rest of the acts of Abijam and all that he did, are they not written in the Book of the Chronicles of the Kings of Judah? And there was war between Abijam and Jeroboam. And Abijam slept with his fathers, and they buried him in the city of David. And Asa his son reigned in his place.

It takes more time talking about the heritage of this King than it does about anything he does and perhaps the only positive thing it has to say about him was that he was in the line of David,

However my favourite is probably the reign of Jeroboam II in the northern Kingdom, they have similar length detailing about his reign and yet according to historic research his reign was probably one of the most economically successful reigns in Israelite history, this would have been known to people who were able to go look up the now lost Chronicles of the Kings of Israel and so his reign is deemed less needing of attention because of his spiritual choices of following after the ways of Jeroboam I

 

[Keachian]

Neofunctionalization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Neofunctionalization, one of the possible outcomes of functional divergence, occurs when one gene copy, or paralog, takes on a totally new function after a gene duplication event. Neofunctionalization is an adaptive mutation process; meaning one of the gene copies must mutate to develop a function that was not present in the ancestral gene.

This is one the literature articles Wiki cites for that statement, they have links down the bottom of the page for the corresponding citation number, this is number 1.

PLoS Genetics: Subfunctionalization of Duplicated Zebrafish pax6 Genes by cis-Regulatory Divergence

"Studying the zebrafish small eyed mutant “sunrise,” we identified the causative amino acid change in the pax6b gene. This mutation leads to reduced DNA binding capacity. There are two closely related pax6 genes in zebrafish, pax6a and pax6b, which arose following a whole-genome duplication event about 350 million years ago; they map to different chromosomes. Each copy is now associated with a different subset of the neighbouring genes found associated with all vertebrate single-copy Pax6 genes. The expression patterns of pax6a and pax6b have diverged from each other since the duplication event. "

When did this event "happen"

Why is it necessary to know when it happened? They have inferred that it has happened by comparing the Zebrafish with it's close genetic relatives and found these differences and identified what has happened in this process. I assume they'll likely be able to figure out a rough time frame of when it happened based on some factors, but I really don't understand your line of questioning. Also maybe if you read the full article you might have the answers.

 

[samaus12345]

http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/blog/_Media/timelin3.gif

The old testament patriarchs timeline.

Isaac Newtons "Chronicles of ancient kingdoms" starts around the time in which Eli/Samuel in the above timeline lives/dies. He includes details of all the great kingdoms of the world, based on the bible and whatever other sources, and commented that some of them, due to arrogance, over-lengthened the age of certain kings actual reign.


Some remarks preliminary to a biblical chronology

From Abraham to Exodus

 

[samaus12345]

"which arose following a whole-genome duplication event about 350 million years ago".

Because i can fit any fairytale on the PLANET into the framework of -look at any 2 things on the planet today. Propose a similarity between them. Find similarity. Make up fairytale process about why they are similar (two rocks on my driveway 'evolved' from one rock 5500 hundred years ago).Indoctrinate the world into believing its a "scientific fact".

 

[Keachian]

http://www.creation-science-prophecy.com/blog/_Media/timelin3.gif

The old testament patriarchs timeline.

Isaac Newtons "Chronicles of ancient kingdoms" starts around the time in which Eli/Samuel in the above timeline lives/dies. He includes details of all the great kingdoms of the world, based on the bible and whatever other sources, and commented that some of them, due to arrogance, over-lengthened the age of certain kings actual reign.


Some remarks preliminary to a biblical chronology

From Abraham to Exodus

Is this addressed to me on my Kings of Israel post, if so then none of that actually addresses any of my points, my point was that the Bible writers saw it much more fitting to talk about the relationship that the Kings and Nations had with God than they did detailing Secular history, it's probably on this basis alone that we can say that the Bible seeks to look at the relationship of the People of God with God, rather than talk about history, sure in that there is some history recorded, however it is extremely topical.

 

[NGC 6712]

Because i can fit any fairytale on the PLANET into the framework of -look at any 2 things on the planet today. Propose a similarity between them. Find similarity. Make up fairytale process about why they are similar (two rocks on my driveway 'evolved' from one rock 5500 hundred years ago).Indoctrinate the world into believing its a "scientific fact".

Do you really think we mess around with fairytales? I mean really?

 

[Keachian]

Because i can fit any fairytale on the PLANET into the framework of -look at any 2 things on the planet today. Propose a similarity between them. Find similarity. Make up fairytale process about why they are similar (two rocks on my driveway 'evolved' from one rock 5500 hundred years ago).Indoctrinate the world into believing its a "scientific fact".

You do realise the paper you're quoting is talking about a contemporary mutation if I'm not mistaken, so something which has happened in the last few years in some captive zebrafish and so the original stock has been identified and they are comparing the mutant and the original stock.

 

[samaus12345]

Progmonk. Please tell God to go back in time and pay more attention to what you would like him to write.

NGC 6712. Again go to NCBI find a literature on what ever and present it.

If by contemporary you mean "about 350 million years ago" yes it is contemporary.

 

[Keachian]

Progmonk. Please tell God to go back in time and pay more attention to what you would like him to write.

I'm quite fine with God writing whatever he wants in the Bible, I'm also quite excited about the fact that the Bible talks about the relationship between God's people and God, what I am adverse to is your claim that the Bible is a history book in much the same way as contemporary text books, it doesn't appear to be that way, why even in Genesis 5 and 11 we can see this, the possible exception to this idea is Enoch, but then Enoch is quite a cool character in general gets raptured and doesn't afraid of anything.

If by contemporary you mean "about 350 million years ago" yes it is contemporary.

Then why did you ask the question about "when did this happen" you're confusing me.

 

[NGC 6712]

Progmonk. Please tell God to go back in time and pay more attention to what you would like him to write.

NGC 6712. Again go to NCBI find a literature on what ever and present it.

If by contemporary you mean "about 350 million years ago" yes it is contemporary.

I ask again - do you really think we create fairytales? And if so, why?

 

[samaus12345]

lool im not to familiar with Enochs rapturing lool. Oh i asked that just as a hint to finding the myth in the short text i copy/pasted from the full literature article. (which was the "350 million").

 

[samaus12345]

Who is 'we' NGC? The scientific oligarchy/community?

 

[Smidlee]

I ask again - do you really think we create fairytales? And if so, why?

Like the "little eyeball that could" story?
Or the jaw bones that got dislocated to become ear bones. Sounds a lot like a pumpkin turning into carriage.
What about man learned to walk upright to see over the grass (sounds like the scientist was smoking some grass)
The best of them all a land animal jump into the water and became a whale. That's even more impressive than a mouse transformed into a horse.