If the Senate had Impeached Trump, Mike Pence could be President-Elect

[Dale]

Did you previously live in Texas?

No, I may have spent two days in Texas once. The only reason that I can think of that I would be getting text messages from the Republican Party of Texas is if someone gave them the wrong phone number. Or it was entered in their system incorrectly.

 

[Dale]

You asked for one election law change for this year, and that was one.

Does it occur to you that sending out mail-in ballots to registered voters is a response to the medical situation? It isn't a plot to change the outcome of the election. It is simply an attempt to enable all registered voters to vote without picking up the virus. I did vote in person during early voting, and there definitely was no social distancing at the polling location.

 

[Andrewn]

No, I may have spent two days in Texas once. The only reason that I can think of that I would be getting text messages from the Republican Party of Texas is if someone gave them the wrong phone number. Or it was entered in their system incorrectly.

Very strange.

 

[Albion]

Does it occur to you that sending out mail-in ballots to registered voters is a response to the medical situation?

That was the excuse (or justification, if you prefer), but it doesn't explain the slapdash way in which this unprecedented action was carried out--a clear invitation to fraud--and then there's also the lack of verification even after the envelopes were received back.

It isn't a plot to change the outcome of the election.

You don't know that to be so.

 

[Dale]

If that had happened (leaving aside the slandering of President Trump that didn't need to be included in your sermon), the same Democrats who impeached Trump would immediately have begun to savage Pence in a hundred ways, accusing him of everything under the sun--just as was done to Trump.

Then, if enough time remained, they would have impeached him also.

As with the Trump impeachment, something vague could have been cooked up in little more than a few days. If there was not time enough remaining in his term for impeachment, they would have continued to change all the election laws in time to arrange for him to lose the November election. In short, your scenario would never, ever, have been permitted.

No, it has nothing to do with anything except the desire to damage the president. The claims are simply fabricated in most cases, and are easily shown not to be lies.

Listened to reason? The evidence that Trump engaged in criminal behavior was weak. The fact that that phone conversation was leaked by a Democrat operative called into question the entire narrative of the phone call.

I'm no fan of Trump and would have preferred removal by the Senate if only because I personally prefer Pence. However, that would have created a dangerous precedent. We cannot have impeachment and removal simply because we prefer the vice president. We cannot remove a sitting President because in discharging his duties we disagree with his position.

Weak evidence? During the 2016 election, Donald Trump called on Russia for help in defeating Hillary Clinton.

US election: Trump encourages Russia to find Clinton emails
27 July 2016

<< "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing," Mr Trump said on Wednesday. >>

Also

<< "This has to be the first time that a major presidential candidate has actively encouraged a foreign power to conduct espionage against his political opponent," Jake Sullivan, Mrs Clinton's senior policy adviser, said. >>

Of interest:

<< "Russia is a global menace led by a devious thug," said Brendan Buck, a spokesman for Paul Ryan, the Republican House Speaker. "Putin should stay out of this election." >>

US election: Trump encourages Russia to find Clinton emails

Another source:

Former CIA Director Panetta Calls Trump's Russia Comment 'Inconceivable'

• 
  July 27, 20161:51 PM ET

<< "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing," the GOP presidential nominee said at a news conference in Miami on Wednesday. "I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press." >>

Also

<< "Today, Donald Trump once again took Russia's side," Panetta said. "He asked the Russians to interfere in American politics." >>

Former CIA Director Panetta Calls Trump's Russia Comment 'Inconceivable'

Another source:

Trump urges Russia to hack Clinton's email
The campaign later attempted to clarify Trump's remarks, saying he wanted Russia to hand over the emails if they had them.

Trump urges Russia to hack Clinton's email

And another:

Donald Trump Calls on Russia to Find Hillary Clinton’s Missing Emails
Donald Trump Calls on Russia to Find Hillary Clinton’s Missing Emails (Published 2016)

 

[Albion]

Weak evidence? During the 2016 election, Donald Trump called on Russia for help in defeating Hillary Clinton.

It was a sarcasm voiced during a nationally televised debate against Hillary Clinton. Hardly the collusion that his adversaries wrongly claimed.

Also<< "This has to be the first time that a major presidential candidate has actively encouraged a foreign power to conduct espionage against his political opponent," Jake Sullivan, Mrs Clinton's senior policy adviser, said. >>

And that baseless accusation from Hillary's senior policy advisor was all you needed in order to believe it, hook, line, and sinker????

And it clearly was not an invitation to "conduct espionage" no matter what else you think of the comment.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Weak evidence? During the 2016 election, Donald Trump called on Russia for help in defeating Hillary Clinton.

US election: Trump encourages Russia to find Clinton emails
27 July 2016

<< "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing," Mr Trump said on Wednesday. >>

Also

<< "This has to be the first time that a major presidential candidate has actively encouraged a foreign power to conduct espionage against his political opponent," Jake Sullivan, Mrs Clinton's senior policy adviser, said. >>

Of interest:

<< "Russia is a global menace led by a devious thug," said Brendan Buck, a spokesman for Paul Ryan, the Republican House Speaker. "Putin should stay out of this election." >>

US election: Trump encourages Russia to find Clinton emails

Another source:

Former CIA Director Panetta Calls Trump's Russia Comment 'Inconceivable'

• 
  July 27, 20161:51 PM ET

<< "Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing," the GOP presidential nominee said at a news conference in Miami on Wednesday. "I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press." >>

Also

<< "Today, Donald Trump once again took Russia's side," Panetta said. "He asked the Russians to interfere in American politics." >>

Former CIA Director Panetta Calls Trump's Russia Comment 'Inconceivable'

Another source:

Trump urges Russia to hack Clinton's email
The campaign later attempted to clarify Trump's remarks, saying he wanted Russia to hand over the emails if they had them.

Trump urges Russia to hack Clinton's email

And another:

Donald Trump Calls on Russia to Find Hillary Clinton’s Missing Emails
Donald Trump Calls on Russia to Find Hillary Clinton’s Missing Emails (Published 2016)

With all due respect, it isn't difficult to tell when Trump is being sarcastic and in this instance it was clear as day that Trump was sarcastically asking for a Russian investigation.

The problem with Trump is that he has a very deep sarcastic streak and has a tendency to shoot for comedic one liners. His base knows when he's serious and when he's joking, it's why they like him. I've watched enough of his speeches to be able to tell when he isn't being serious, even though it usually annoys me. He never became Presidential, he also behaved like a surprised outsider.

All of that said, the media and the left never figured out the joke. It could be by choice, I suspect a lot of the time they don't get the joke. That on one hand made his base love him more, on the other it turned his opponents stark raving mad.

There was never anything there with the Russia claims. If there was something there believe me I would have been shouting about it. I would have loved for my party to abandon Trump and Trumpism in favor of a conservative candidate this year.

 

[Andrewn]

Weak evidence? During the 2016 election, Donald Trump called on Russia for help in defeating Hillary Clinton.

Yes, he publicly called on Russia and Wikileaks several times in his rallies before 2016 elections.

 

[Dale]

Mail-in ballots sent to people, alive or dead, without anyone having requested one.

Do you have any evidence of mail-in ballots being sent to dead people?
Is there any reason to believe that any of these were returned, filled out for a candidate?
Or that Elections Supervisors are not capable of dealing with this?

 

[Dale]

It was a sarcasm voiced during a nationally televised debate against Hillary Clinton. Hardly the collusion that his adversaries wrongly claimed.




And that baseless accusation from Hillary's senior policy advisor was all you needed in order to believe it, hook, line, and sinker????

And it clearly was not an invitation to "conduct espionage" no matter what else you think of the comment.

With all due respect, it isn't difficult to tell when Trump is being sarcastic and in this instance it was clear as day that Trump was sarcastically asking for a Russian investigation.

The problem with Trump is that he has a very deep sarcastic streak and has a tendency to shoot for comedic one liners. His base knows when he's serious and when he's joking, it's why they like him. I've watched enough of his speeches to be able to tell when he isn't being serious, even though it usually annoys me. He never became Presidential, he also behaved like a surprised outsider.

All of that said, the media and the left never figured out the joke. It could be by choice, I suspect a lot of the time they don't get the joke. That on one hand made his base love him more, on the other it turned his opponents stark raving mad.

There was never anything there with the Russia claims. If there was something there believe me I would have been shouting about it. I would have loved for my party to abandon Trump and Trumpism in favor of a conservative candidate this year.

Most people didn't think it was sarcasm. Trump went on to amplify his comments on Twitter.


<< Some Trump surrogates suggested his comments were a joke, but the Manhattan mogul immediately doubled down on Twitter. “If Russia or any other country or person has Hillary Clinton's 33,000 illegally deleted emails, perhaps they should share them with the FBI!,” he tweeted. >>



Trump isn't concerned about being misunderstood, he goes on saying the same thing.

It is an invitation to conduct espionage.

This is from the third link in my post above.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Most people didn't think it was sarcasm. Trump went on to amplify his comments on Twitter.


<< Some Trump surrogates suggested his comments were a joke, but the Manhattan mogul immediately doubled down on Twitter. “If Russia or any other country or person has Hillary Clinton's 33,000 illegally deleted emails, perhaps they should share them with the FBI!,” he tweeted. >>



Trump isn't concerned about being misunderstood, he goes on saying the same thing.

It is an invitation to conduct espionage.

This is from the third link in my post above.

He's egging you guys on and you fell for it.

 

[Halbhh]

Donald Trump was impeached on December 18, 2019 and acquitted by the Senate on February 5, 2020. The Articles of Impeachment arose from evidence that Trump asked authorities in Ukraine to boost his candidacy in 2016. Trump withheld military aid to the Ukraine, and reaffirmed that decision in 2019, to punish the Ukraine for not producing damaging material on Joe and Hunter Biden.

The Senate refused to consider these extremely serious charges, calling no witnesses and issuing no subpoenas. If Senate Republicans had believed they could prove the charges were hasty or ill-conceived, they would have jumped to interrogate the witnesses.

Just think if the Senate had heard the weight of the evidence and acted sensibly. Trump would have been removed and he and his zillions of lies would have disappeared into history.

Mike Pence would have been President, with freedom to chart his own course. Religious conservatives and pro-lifers would be thrilled to have Mike Pence as President. We don't know how Pence would have done dealing with coronavirus but he would be free to deal with reality instead of being an echo chamber. Overall, Mike Pence would make a more solid, respectable Presidential candidate than Donald Trump. Trump's antics were increasingly difficult for evangelicals to swallow. No one can know the outcome of such a contest, but Mike Pence would have a much better chance of defeating Joe Biden than Trump did.

There is a substantial chance that if Senate Republicans had listened to reason instead of applying standard gridlock procedure to the solemn duty of hearing an impeachment, we would have a different President. With less "me, me, me" and more policy, there is a good chance that Mike Pence could be President-Elect.

A number seem to believe most anything Trump says. It was very telling that trump attempted to make people think any criticism is "fake news".

How is it different from a cult following a charismatic leader, in the end?

 

[Albion]

The problem with Trump is that he has a very deep sarcastic streak and has a tendency to shoot for comedic one liners.

That's very true. But to be fair, it doesn't explain the most popular of the false claims against him.

Some of the most commonly heard accusations are just inventions of his enemies, such as the baseless claim that he called all Mexican immigrants rapists or that he said of White Supremacists in Charlottesville that "some were good people." Both of those were simply lies told on him.

He never became Presidential, he also behaved like a surprised outsider.

IMHO, that is also correct to say.

All of that said, the media and the left never figured out the joke.

Right again. They were only interested in what they could misrepresent or even misquote in order to strike another blow against the man who dared to defeat their choice in 2016.

There was never anything there with the Russia claims.

There wasn't. Except that we probably should not just let it go like that. We now know how corrupt some of the previously most respected agencies of government really are. That should alarm every American of any political leaning...but I don't get the idea that it does.

 

[Dale]

It was a sarcasm voiced during a nationally televised debate against Hillary Clinton. Hardly the collusion that his adversaries wrongly claimed.




And that baseless accusation from Hillary's senior policy advisor was all you needed in order to believe it, hook, line, and sinker????

And it clearly was not an invitation to "conduct espionage" no matter what else you think of the comment.

With all due respect, it isn't difficult to tell when Trump is being sarcastic and in this instance it was clear as day that Trump was sarcastically asking for a Russian investigation.

The problem with Trump is that he has a very deep sarcastic streak and has a tendency to shoot for comedic one liners. His base knows when he's serious and when he's joking, it's why they like him. I've watched enough of his speeches to be able to tell when he isn't being serious, even though it usually annoys me. He never became Presidential, he also behaved like a surprised outsider.

All of that said, the media and the left never figured out the joke. It could be by choice, I suspect a lot of the time they don't get the joke. That on one hand made his base love him more, on the other it turned his opponents stark raving mad.

There was never anything there with the Russia claims. If there was something there believe me I would have been shouting about it. I would have loved for my party to abandon Trump and Trumpism in favor of a conservative candidate this year.

When a detective looks at a crime, he, or she, looks for motive, means and opportunity.

We know that Trump had the motive to use Russian intelligence and the Russian propaganda machine against Hillary Clinton, the other candidate, his political opponent. He told us that himself. We know that he thinks that way.

As President, we also know that Trump had the means and opportunity to retaliate against a foreign government that didn't cooperate with his plans. That's what happened with Ukraine.

I'm having trouble seeing why the US would want to withhold military aid to the Ukraine. There seems to be no rational reason when you look at American values and the strategic situation. The Ukraine faced a Russian invasion in Crimea. The Russian military is testing the limits against the US all over the world. Russian planes are invading US airspace and have come close to colliding with American planes. I outlined the situation in a recent thread, Why A Christian Can Vote Democrat. Since I posted that thread, a Russian ship almost collided with a US Navy ship. These events aren't accidents. Russia is a military bully. Russia is propping up Assad, the dictator of Syria, and cooperating with Iran to that end. It makes perfect sense for the US to supply military aid to the Ukraine, a small and rather weak country which borders Russia.


Trump withheld that aid. Do you remember him giving us any explanation of why? I don't.

I believe that the witnesses that were willing to testify against Donald Trump before the Senate should have been heard.

 

[Albion]

When a detective looks at a crime, he, or she, looks for motive, means and opportunity.

We know that Trump had the motive to use Russian intelligence and the Russian propaganda machine against Hillary Clinton, the other candidate, his political opponent. He told us that himself. We know that he thinks that way.

As President, we also know that Trump had the means and opportunity to retaliate against a foreign government that didn't cooperate with his plans. That's what happened with Ukraine.

I'm having trouble seeing why the US would want to withhold military aid to the Ukraine. There seems to be no rational reason when you look at American values and the strategic situation. The Ukraine faced a Russian invasion in Crimea. The Russian military is testing the limits against the US all over the world. Russian planes are invading US airspace and have come close to colliding with American planes. I outlined the situation in a recent thread, Why A Christian Can Vote Democrat. Since I posted that thread, a Russian ship almost collided with a US Navy ship. These events aren't accidents. Russia is a military bully. Russia is propping up Assad, the dictator of Syria, and cooperating with Iran to that end. It makes perfect sense for the US to supply military aid to the Ukraine, a small and rather weak country which borders Russia.


Trump withheld that aid. Do you remember him giving us any explanation of why? I don't.

I believe that the witnesses that were willing to testify against Donald Trump before the Senate should have been heard.

Basically, your argument indicts the FBI and the others who were involved in the coup attempt as convincingly as it does the President, except of course, that the President actually did not have much of a motive.

I'm having trouble seeing why the US would want to withhold military aid to the Ukraine.

Well, Biden confessed to all of that. He couldn't resist bragging. I assumed that you had seen it on TV. And the reason...money.

 

[Redwingfan9]

When a detective looks at a crime, he, or she, looks for motive, means and opportunity.

We know that Trump had the motive to use Russian intelligence and the Russian propaganda machine against Hillary Clinton, the other candidate, his political opponent. He told us that himself. We know that he thinks that way.

As President, we also know that Trump had the means and opportunity to retaliate against a foreign government that didn't cooperate with his plans. That's what happened with Ukraine.

I'm having trouble seeing why the US would want to withhold military aid to the Ukraine. There seems to be no rational reason when you look at American values and the strategic situation. The Ukraine faced a Russian invasion in Crimea. The Russian military is testing the limits against the US all over the world. Russian planes are invading US airspace and have come close to colliding with American planes. I outlined the situation in a recent thread, Why A Christian Can Vote Democrat. Since I posted that thread, a Russian ship almost collided with a US Navy ship. These events aren't accidents. Russia is a military bully. Russia is propping up Assad, the dictator of Syria, and cooperating with Iran to that end. It makes perfect sense for the US to supply military aid to the Ukraine, a small and rather weak country which borders Russia.


Trump withheld that aid. Do you remember him giving us any explanation of why? I don't.

I believe that the witnesses that were willing to testify against Donald Trump before the Senate should have been heard.

Funny how motive only applies to Trump. Obama had motive to infiltrate Trump's campaign and dump the fake Russian dossier.

As for Ukraine, this whole scandal has always been a big nothing. As President, he can ask foreign governments to do whatever he wants. Unless there was a Congressionally mandated timeline for the payment of foreign aid, the President has discretion when to deliver aid. You guys don't like what Trump did but it isn't illegal. I've read the statutes the Democrats claim Trump violated. Their claim is such a reach that I suspect the Courts would dismiss their case.

 

[Aaron_Bethlhm]

I don't believe it. Can you give me one reason to take this claim seriously?

One reason?
#1: because you don't believe it.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

A Discalced Carmelite Friar told the OCDS group I was in that "sarcasm" always has a wounding effect.

When you think about it, it's true regardless of how unintentional you are.

 

[miamited]

Hi all,

Well, for just over half of the Republican/Democrat electorate, the current sentiment is that he not let the door smack him on the *+++* as he leaves. There are probably a lot of Republicans that also share that sentiment, but are not willing to break party line to say it. I think we can all see, whether we are willing to admit it to ourselves or not, that these last 3 weeks have shown us exactly what kind of leader Donald J. Trump is.

He has practically abdicated his position, spending all of his time trying to undermine the very foundation upon which our democracy rests. Sulking and ill tempered and pretty much showing that if his mouth is moving...he's lying.

Yes, I fully realize that there is a segment of America that won't agree with this portrayal and all I can say to them is...it is what it is. Hopefully all those who have encouraged prayer for our national leadership will continue to do so into the next administration. Also, for those who used to proclaim that Trump was God's choice for our leader, they should also understand that Biden is now God's choice.

God bless,
ted

 

[Albion]

A Discalced Carmelite Friar told the OCDS group I was in that "sarcasm" always has a wounding effect.

When you think about it, it's true regardless of how unintentional you are.

Okay. Trump no doubt was willing to "wound" Hillary after the way she had talked; but the idea that he was announcing his intention to conspire with a foreign power is just silly.

When it comes to partisan politics, hearing the accusation made this was indeed what he meant--and was announcing it to the whole world (!) as well--probably shouldn't come as a surprise, though. It seems like "anything goes" has become the new norm in politics since getting rid of Trump became the primary theme.