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If the Bible is not literally/historically "true", then why is it special?

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This is primarily directed at non-literalists.

I was listening to an online sermon on Noah's flood. The pastor avoided talking about the historicity of the flood (likely to avoid conflict among his congregation). The resulting sermon was essentially an interpretation and application of the story to our lives using a narrative in which the historical truth or falsity of the narrative was irrelevant.

I found myself thinking, "You know, the pastor could be preaching on any myth or work of fiction and still draw similar interpretations, applications, moral insights, philosophical insights, and other tips which are helpful for our lives."

I felt like I was back in a high school English class where we were discussing and interpreting Greek myths or How To Kill A Mockingbird. You can find lots of great life lessons, moral insights and other tips in many works of fiction or pseudo-fiction.

For example, a pastor could use the story of Noah to emphasize the virtue of faith. He could also use Harry Potter's relationship with Dumbledore to emphasize the virtue of faith. The message could be the same. The historical truth of the narrative is irrelevant.

So, for Biblical non-literalists, what makes the Bible special? Similar life lessons and messages can be found in other fictional or pseudo-fictional narratives and stories.

If a pastor took a non-Biblical work of fiction and used it to drive home a "biblical truth" would that be acceptable?

This is especially more pertinent because certain aspects of the Bible contain morally unsavoury parts (i.e. God-sanctioned mass-murder and rape in Num 31:16-18) whereas certain works of fiction contain really important moral lessons (i.e. How To Kill A Mockingbird on racism).
 
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zippy2006

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This is primarily directed at non-literalists...

To Kill a Mockingbird contains important truths. Are such truths undermined because it isn't literally or historically true?

Truth is not synonymous with literalness or historicity. Just as modern authors can use a genre such as poetry to convey important truths, Biblical authors can use genres other than literal historicism. Indeed if the genre is not literal historicism then to interpret it so would be erroneous.

Nevertheless, much of the Bible depends on and presupposes a historical grounding, and therefore history remains a very important genre of Biblical literature.
 
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If a pastor took a non-Biblical work of fiction and used it to drive home a "biblical truth" would that be acceptable?

It's not just pastors, morality plays in fiction are a common theme, even if it isn't overt by everyone.

People tell stories to convey important messages, and have always done so.
 
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Ok, I can probably take a crack at this, I am a non-literalist in that I do not view any particular copy of the Bible as Infallible, I view it as Sufficient.

As an example of that I might put forth the NIV translation of a particular scripture:

20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied,
“The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say,
‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

vs. the King James

20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come,
he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there!
for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (emphasis mine)

These 2 translations render very different meanings. The first is sort of "ho-hum, here I am dummies, geez yer kind of blind". The second (for me) carries some personal and life changing implications when I think about it, especially when combined with the Lord's Prayer:

"Thy Kingdom Come (within me), (then) Thy Will (will) be Done, On Earth as it is in Heaven"

There are other things that I have noticed, apart from differing translations and I'm sure you are familiar with many of them. I think the different accounts of who went to the tomb first in some of the Gospels, how did Judas die, etc. I've heard these explained with some hand-waving from time to time by literalists. I'd rather do away with the hand waving, and stop attributing infallibility to it and simply ask the question - "is this Sufficient? For Me? Is it enough to make me look for God? Do I meet Him in these pages? Did He originate it? What was He trying to tell me?"

I am a literalist when it comes to the Resurrection, the Virgin Birth and the Nicene Creed. These things were preserved by the early Church whose Bishops were apostollically descended in direct line from the original Apostles and eventually assembled the stories into the Bible that we know (more or less) today.

So, for Biblical non-literalists, what makes the Bible special?
Similar life lessons and messages can be found in other fictional
or pseudo-fictional narratives and stories.

What makes it special... "Something" happened. Something happened to cause this book to be here now in my hands 2000 years later. This book tells the story of that Something that happened, and a little bit of what happened later. In the Old Testament, it tells the story of what went Before.

For us, it is a Historical happening. And everything happens for a reason.

It really comes down to, do you believe in the Resurrection? Because, if you do, you are living in a COMPLETELY different world from the one before. You are either living in a world where a man gets crucified and comes back to life 3 days later, or you are not. These are 2 different worlds.

And (spoiler alert) it wasn't just any man. In these 2 different worlds, in one of them, God is directly present for a specific purpose and sets something in motion. In the other, you have the world's largest hoax.

This book tells the stories of those that observed, and what they were told, and what happened after and it's enough to take you to that other world, if you want to go there, and if you are called to go there. It's a record of the contact between God and His Creation. And it's the best one we've got.

1 John 1:1-5

Is it infallible? Completely complete? Probably not. Jude 1:9 references a story, Satan contending for the body of Moses. That story isn't even in the Bible.

But is the Bible Sufficent? For me, yes. I traced it back to where it came from and found the Church that assembled it. I'm not certain it was meant to be used apart from them, I think they were meant to be used Together. So, more help. Suddenly I have the traditions and interpretations from the early Christians available to me. I can see what they thought about what they assembled. This is the path that I was guided to.

Jeremiah 29:13 "And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."

It got me seeking. It's the door to Christ and to faith. It is how we get to know Him. And, curiously enough, ourselves.

If a pastor took a non-Biblical work of fiction and used it to drive home a "biblical truth"
would that be acceptable?

It depends on the context. In my church I don't think that would ever be done, although my priest might make use of a cultural references in his sermons that most of the congregation would be familiar with? In general though, the Bible should be the one source of reference that the members of the Church are all familiar with (or getting familiar with). Services also are a form of Worship pointing to Christ so referencing something outside of Scripture or pointing elsewhere would be strange.

Outside of a formal church service, perhaps. There are many fundamental lessons that could be
drawn from other characters and novels but you have to keep in mind that for a Christian, Christ is the fullfillment of All. I think perhaps in talking with someone where a mutual cultural reference
was known, but the Gospels were not, you could point out within the cultural reference where
the attributes of Christ or biblical truth were present.

The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde could be one example; it's a favorite of mine and
it contains 'truths' about moral character that I would say I learned the hard way. But I wouldn't present it in a Church sermon. If I had a friend who wouldn't read the Bible and didn't understand why I found God important in my life or why I stopped drinking, I might give it to them and say 'it was like this for me.' Jekyll never finds Christ though. It's a horror story that ends in a suicide. What he finds is that he is powerless to escape his own evil.

“And this again, that that insurgent horror was knit to him closer than a wife, closer than an eye; lay caged in his flesh, where he heard it mutter and felt it struggle to be born; and at every hour of weakness, and in the confidence of slumber, prevailed against him, and deposed him out of life.”
― Robert Louis Stevenson, The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

The story though, can be a bridge

compare with

Romans 7:14-25

From other stories you could maybe make some better people, or you could make activists. You might even make fine upstanding citizens. But you need to understand that the goal of the Church is not to make better people, it is to make and strengthen Christians. You can't do that with stories of Harry Potter or Spider Man. They may be inspiring, but they will never be worshipped. They may have admirable characters, but they don't bring spiritual life. They may be heroes and emulating them to the degree that they are Christ-like may be a good thing... but why shoot near the mark when you can aim directly for it? Especially in a Church.

"With great power comes great responsibility" ~SpiderMan

"From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded" ~Luke 12:48 (partial)

Also, Spider-man didn't die on a cross 2000 years ago to get my attention and offer me redemption
from my own evil and his own Spirit instead of mine. He didn't influence 2000 years of history and
carry his Spirit forward in others to meet me. You need to understand that Christians, true Christians
are more than just 'followers of Christ'.

John 1:12-13

There was more on the table. And that's why the Bible was special, and fictional stories of other
characters won't do. We aren't trying to become 'good people'. We've given up on that. We are giving ourselves over to become something different entirely, to let Christ grow within us. We are handing over the keys to the Kingdom.

As far as To Kill a Mockingbird goes, it is a great movie and it illustrates the evils of racism. But all that is simply summed up in "Love thy neighbor as thyself," which will end racism once and
for all entirely, the day it is followed

Anyway, I do hope I've answered your question
 
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Silmarien

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So, for Biblical non-literalists, what makes the Bible special? Similar life lessons and messages can be found in other fictional or pseudo-fictional narratives and stories.

I'm a skeptic who finally got won over, so my thoughts on Scripture are still in flux. I currently don't accept infallibility, and if I ever come to, it won't be as a literalist.

It's very possible to claim that the Bible is divinely inspired, but in a way that points to spiritual truths, not historical ones. I find the idea of a literal Garden of Eden incoherent, but I look at that story and see a bunch of things: human suffering being tied into self-knowledge, everyone trying to place the blame elsewhere, and the idea that we're not really in what you'd consider a natural state. I have no way of knowing if the myth was divinely inspired in some way, but I do think it's profoundly true. Just with less talking snakes.

Now, I'm going to take a page out of C.S. Lewis's book and say that while the Bible may be a collection of stories, I have come to suspect that one of them actually is true. And the Gospel is definitely about more than life lessons; believing that changes everything. But the fact of the matter is that you can't take the New Testament and then pretend the Old Testament doesn't exist--it's at the very least the context for everything that follows. It may be a good deal more than that, but it certainly can't be discarded.

If a pastor took a non-Biblical work of fiction and used it to drive home a "biblical truth" would that be acceptable?

That would be an odd choice in a church, but a neat option for a church's book club! I really like religiously themed fiction, though.
 
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ExodusMe

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This is primarily directed at non-literalists.

I was listening to an online sermon on Noah's flood. The pastor avoided talking about the historicity of the flood (likely to avoid conflict among his congregation). The resulting sermon was essentially an interpretation and application of the story to our lives using a narrative in which the historical truth or falsity of the narrative was irrelevant.

I found myself thinking, "You know, the pastor could be preaching on any myth or work of fiction and still draw similar interpretations, applications, moral insights, philosophical insights, and other tips which are helpful for our lives."

I felt like I was back in a high school English class where we were discussing and interpreting Greek myths or How To Kill A Mockingbird. You can find lots of great life lessons, moral insights and other tips in many works of fiction or pseudo-fiction.

For example, a pastor could use the story of Noah to emphasize the virtue of faith. He could also use Harry Potter's relationship with Dumbledore to emphasize the virtue of faith. The message could be the same. The historical truth of the narrative is irrelevant.

So, for Biblical non-literalists, what makes the Bible special? Similar life lessons and messages can be found in other fictional or pseudo-fictional narratives and stories.

If a pastor took a non-Biblical work of fiction and used it to drive home a "biblical truth" would that be acceptable?

This is especially more pertinent because certain aspects of the Bible contain morally unsavoury parts (i.e. God-sanctioned mass-murder and rape in Num 31:16-18) whereas certain works of fiction contain really important moral lessons (i.e. How To Kill A Mockingbird on racism).
Here are a few of my thoughts
I think you need to clarify your definitions as to what you mean by "taking the bible literally", because there is no non-literalist vs literalist camps among bible interpreters. Maybe for certain passages, but not the entire bible. Jesus calls himself a door in John 10:7. Nobody takes that literally.

Another note, maybe the pastor just had a bad sermon. Personally, if I were to listen to a sermon and have the same sentiment as you - I would conclude that the sermon was bad - or the pastor is a heretic.

Listen to a sermon by John Piper and tell me if a high school teacher could do the same. If you think they could then tell me what one you listened to.
 
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Ron Gurley

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My Christian VIEWS:
The Bible (Scripture) is the supreme authority when compared to other writings and precepts. ("Scriptura Suprema") All of the ACTUAL WORDS therein were "Spirit Inspired", and "superintended" by God The Holy Spirit. The ~40 authors and their scribes recorded these words in "original manuscripts" which were without error. Systematic theological study of Scripture leads one to the conclusion that it is God's supreme way of speaking to Man.
The "economy" or God's methods of relating to Man changed from Old Testament times to New Testament
due to the historical appearance of Jesus of Nazareth,
The Divine Messiah, The Christ, the God-Man., Son of God, Son of Man, etc
The Bible as a piece of literature is withhout peer, and
it has been MIRACULOUSLY remembered, inspired, dictated, written, copied, translated, preserved, interpreted, and distributed.

RELIABILITY of the 4 Gospels and "Dr." Luke's investigations in at least Acts 1-12:

John 14:26 ....Jesus to his followers: Upper Room Discourse
"But the Counselor, (God) the Holy Spirit, (Spirit of Truth) whom the Father will send in my name,
will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." (PERFECT spirit-led RECALL)

Has the COLLECTION of books and letters as piece of literature that we called the New Testament
passed acceptable TESTS to make it accurate enough to be BELIEVABLE?"

Similar to: " historically accurate?"

PRIMARY TESTS: Authenticity and Authority.
The first passing: all 27 books of the NT were accepted by the Council of Carthage, ~397 AD.
There are more than 5000 manuscripts of the NT...the best attested document of ALL ancient writings.
There are numerous fragments dating from ~135 -800 AD written on papyrus. There are hundreds of accurate parchment
copies produced in the 4th-5th centuries. There are ~86,000 quotations in old Latin, Latin, Syriac, and Egyptian translations
from the 3rd century. There is more scholarly work done on this piece of literature than any other in existence.(Ryrie 2084)

Conclusion: The New Testament translations in ANY version have been based on copious, reliable, accurate, authentic words
from "authors" who were authorized and accepted "historians".


What the Bible says about itself:

2 Timothy 3: 14-17...All Scripture is God-breathed
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,
15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

John 20:30-31 (NIV); 21:25...that you may BELIEVE...the historical BOOKS!
30 Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples,
which are not recorded in this book.
31 But these are written that you may BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that by believing you may have life in his name.
21:25 Jesus did many other things as well.
If every one of them were written down,
I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

2 Peter 1: 19-21...Bible "produced" by Men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
So we have the prophetic WORD (Scripture) made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place,
until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts. But know this first of all, that
no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation, for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Luke 24:27, 32, 44-45...the post resurrection super BIBLE study...He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures
he (Jesus) explained to them (2 Emmaus followers) what was said in all the Scriptures concerning Himself.
They said to one another,
“Were not our hearts burning within us (Holy Spirit?) while He was speaking to us on the road,
while He (Jesus) was explaining the Scriptures to us?”
(...at the "fish fry" to His followers)
Now He said to them,
“These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

IMO:
The books of the Bible are in GENERAL HARMONY and GENERALLY ACCURATE enough to allow interpretation
and systematic theology AS TO ALL MAJOR DOCTRINAL TRUTHS. Those books were produced by spirit-led menfrom different view points, backgrounds, audiences, intent, etc.
The spiritual revelation from God to Man is NOT "flawed". The Bible can be "nit picked" for INSIGNIFICANT and humanly perceived contradictions.
And as per usual, because the Bible was "produced" by Man, he has succeeded in viewing the work as totally HIS!
 
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Ron Gurley

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Q: What Percentage of the Bible Needs (spiritual) "Interpretation"?

A: 100% aided by its "author", God the Holy Spirit.

2 Peter 1:19-21...AUTHORS were "men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God."
19 So we have the prophetic word MADE MORE SURE,
to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place,
until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.But know this first of all, that
no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but
men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

1 Corinthians 2: 6-16 (NIV1984)...Wisdom From the Spirit
...God’s secret wisdom,
a wisdom that has been hidden and
that God destined for our glory before time began....
but God has revealed it (wisdom) to us by his Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him?
In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
We have not received the spirit of the world
but the Spirit who is from God,
that we may understand what God has freely given us.
This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom
but in words taught by the Spirit,
expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,
for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them,
because they are spiritually discerned.


Man has developed sophisticated "systematic theology" .

Systematic theology - Wikipedia

Biblical hermeneutics - Wikipedia
...SEE: 5 Techiques!
 
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TLK Valentine

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So, for Biblical non-literalists, what makes the Bible special? Similar life lessons and messages can be found in other fictional or pseudo-fictional narratives and stories.

Well, not being a Christian, for me, it's not. But that's the point -- it's special because you decide it's special.

If a pastor took a non-Biblical work of fiction and used it to drive home a "biblical truth" would that be acceptable?

Are you looking for "Biblical truth" or just "truth"?

Because it seems to me that truth is truth no matter where it comes from...
 
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Ron Gurley

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John 8:32
and you will know THE truth, and THE truth will make you free.”


John 8(NASB),,,The Truth Will Make You Free
31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him,
“If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
33 They answered Him,
“We are Abraham’s descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone;
how is it that You say, ‘You will become free’?”
34 Jesus answered them,
“Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
35 The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
36 So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.
37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants;
yet you seek to kill Me,
because My word has no place IN you.
38 I speak the things which I have seen WITH My Father;
therefore you also do the things which you heard from your father.”
 
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Ron Gurley

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"it's special because you decide it's special."

Nope. The Bible is MIRACULOUS!

My Christian VIEWS:
The Bible (Scripture) is the supreme authority when compared to other writings and precepts.
All of the ACTUAL WORDS therein were "Spirit Inspired", and "superintended" by God.
The ~40 authors and their scribes recorded these words in "original manuscripts" which were without error.Systematic study of Scripture leads one to the conclusion that it is God's supreme way of speaking to Man.The "economy" or God's methods of relating to Man changed from Old Testament times to New Testament due to the historical appearance of:
Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, the God-Man.
The Bible as a piece of literature is withhout peer, and
it has been MIRACULOUSLY remembered, inspired, dictated, written, copied, translated, preserved, interpreted, and distributed.

RELIABILITY of the 4 Gospels and "Dr." Luke's investigations in at least Acts 1-12:

John 14:26 (Jesus to his followers: Upper Room Discourse)
"But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.",,,(PERFECT spirit-led RECALL)

Has the COLLECTION of books and letters as piece of literature that we called the New Testament
passed acceptable TESTS to make it accurate enough to be BELIEVABLE?"


Similar to: " historically accurate?"

PRIMARY TESTS: Authenticity and Authority.
The first passing: all 27 books were accepted by the Council of Carthage, ~397 AD.
There are more than 5000 manuscripts of the New Testament....the best attested document of ALL ancient writings. There are numerous fragments dating from ~135 -800 AD written on papyrus. There are hundreds of accurate parchment
copies produced in the 4th-5th centuries. There are ~86,000 quotations in old Latin, Latin, Syriac, and Egyptian translationsfrom the 3rd century. There is more scholarly work done on this piece of literature than any other in existence.(Ryrie 2084)

Conclusion: The New Testament translations in ANY version have been based on copious, reliable, accurate, authentic wordsfrom ~40 authors who were authorized and accepted "historians".

What the Bible says about itself:

2 Timothy 3: 14-17...All Scripture is God-breathed
14 But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,
15 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

John 20:30-31 (NIV); 21:25...that you may BELIEVE...the historical BOOKS!
30 Jesus did many other miraculous signs in the presence of his disciples,
which are not recorded in this book.
31 But these are written that you may BELIEVE that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that by believing you may have life in his name.
21:25 Jesus did many other things as well.
If every one of them were written down,
I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

2 Peter 1: 19-21...Men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
So we have the prophetic WORD (Scripture) made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.
But know this first of all, that
no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but
men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

Luke 24:27, 32, 44-45...the post resurrection super BIBLE study...He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures
he (Jesus) explained to them (2 Emmaus followers) what was said in all the Scriptures concerning Himself.
They said to one another,
“Were not our hearts burning within us (Holy Spirit?) while He was speaking to us on the road,
while He (Jesus) was explaining the Scriptures to us?”
(...at the "fish fry" to His followers)
Now He said to them,
“These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,

IMO:
A>The books of the Bible are in GENERAL HARMONY and GENERALLY ACCURATE enough to allow interpretation and systematic theology AS TO ALL MAJOR DOCTRINAL TRUTHS. Those books were written by spirit-led menfrom different view points, backgrounds, audiences, intent, etc.
The spiritual revelation from God to Man is NOT "flawed". The Bible can be "nit picked" for INSIGNIFICANT and humanly perceived contradictions.
 
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Ron Gurley

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miraculous.(ADJECTIVE)
occurring through divine or supernatural intervention, or manifesting such power:

miraculous (ADJECTIVE)
1. Of the nature of a miracle; preter-natural.
2. So astounding as to suggest a miracle; phenomenal...
3. Able to work miracles.
 
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TLK Valentine

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miraculous.(ADJECTIVE)
occurring through divine or supernatural intervention, or manifesting such power:

miraculous (ADJECTIVE)
1. Of the nature of a miracle; preter-natural.
2. So astounding as to suggest a miracle; phenomenal...
3. Able to work miracles.

None of which applies to the Bible. Perhaps your own definition is more flexible?
 
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Ron Gurley

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Matthew 13:54
He came to His hometown (Nazareth) and began teaching them in their synagogue,
so that they were astonished, and said,
“Where did this man get this wisdom and these "miraculous" powers?


these miraculous powers...Greek 1411...dynamis...
I.strength power, ability
A.inherent power, power residing in a thing by virtue of its nature, or which a person or thing exerts and puts forth
B.power for performing miracles
C.moral power and excellence of soul
D.the power and influence which belong to riches and wealth...
 
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TLK Valentine

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Matthew 13:54
He came to His hometown (Nazareth) and began teaching them in their synagogue,
so that they were astonished, and said,
“Where did this man get this wisdom and these "miraculous" powers?


these miraculous powers...Greek 1411...dynamis...
I.strength power, ability
A.inherent power, power residing in a thing by virtue of its nature, or which a person or thing exerts and puts forth
B.power for performing miracles
C.moral power and excellence of soul
D.the power and influence which belong to riches and wealth...

Well, B. is redundant, since you'd have to provide a definition of "miracle" for it to mean anything, C. is a collection of buzzwords, the rest of them can easily be accomplished with or without God, and none of these definitions are your own.

Would you like some help? I, personally, define "miracle" as any event where God sets aside the natural laws in order to accomplish His will... "miraculous," therefore, would be pertaining to or involving such a "miracle."

How about if I just ask if you agree with my definition, and you respond with a simple yes or no?
 
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leftrightleftrightleft

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To Kill a Mockingbird contains important truths. Are such truths undermined because it isn't literally or historically true?

No not at all!

Truth is not synonymous with literalness or historicity. Just as modern authors can use a genre such as poetry to convey important truths, Biblical authors can use genres other than literal historicism. Indeed if the genre is not literal historicism then to interpret it so would be erroneous.

Agree. But what I am getting at here is that a work of fiction can contain very similar (or even identical) truths as the Bible. And yet this work of fiction is not included in any sort of holy cannon despite containing the same truth but in slightly different words and story.

Is the historicity really that important? Especially when most sermons seem to focus more on the overall theme/message/applicability rather than the historicity of the passage. I feel that many, many sermons could be done on a non-Christian work of fiction and the message that could be wrought would be the same.

So if Book A contains Truth X and Book B contains Truth X, then why is Book A a "holy book" while Book B is not?
 
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