If sabbath was a creation ordinance...........

BobRyan said:

I notice you have now abandoned your Deut 5 argument. Why not respond to the Deut 5 post that was given?

It is easier to take your idea seriously if you show interest in it.

in Christ,

Bob

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I don't get that idea at all. How did you arrive at it?

maco said:

Man counts 613, God counts 10 and writes them with His own finger. The interesting thing is that the Ten Commandments are the only part of the Bible written with God's own finger.

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What? God can't count? Really?

from scratch said:

What? God can't count? Really?

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I see an argument to use against the dietary law bit here now... as they cast away the 613 for 10 it certainly tosses them out too.

Sophrosyne said:

I see an argument to use against the dietary law bit here now... as they cast away the 613 for 10 it certainly tosses them out too.

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No one is casting out anything, we are simply living by the teachings and life example of Jesus.

maco said:

No one is casting out anything, we are simply living by the teachings and life example of Jesus.

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by making a distinction of 613 to 10 you are essentially saying that dietary laws are "less" important than Sabbath Laws which isn't supported by the Bible.

Sophrosyne said:

by making a distinction of 613 to 10 you are essentially saying that dietary laws are "less" important than Sabbath Laws which isn't supported by the Bible.

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We can come to all kinds of man made conclusions when we don't refer to the teachings of Jesus. What did Jesus teach on these matters?

Sophrosyne said:

I see an argument to use against the dietary law bit here now... as they cast away the 613 for 10 it certainly tosses them out too.

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Figarowe ain't funny what the children say? At least it can be understood what I said even if the song quote isn't quite right.

maco said:

No one is casting out anything, we are simply living by the teachings and life example of Jesus.

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hehehehehe that has already been proven to be inaccurate.

maco said:

We can come to all kinds of man made conclusions when we don't refer to the teachings of Jesus. What did Jesus teach on these matters?

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Jesus said it isn't food that defiles a man. That is in reference to what an individual put in their mouth.

maco said:

We can come to all kinds of man made conclusions when we don't refer to the teachings of Jesus. What did Jesus teach on these matters?

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Jesus didn't teach that the 10 were separable from the 613. I challenge you to show he did and if you can't then I would say you have come to a man made (or woman made) conclusion.

Sabbatarian Christians conveniently pick and choose among the 613 Mosaic Laws that can be practiced publicly for the maximum demonstration of self-righteous pride.

One thing is for sure: The Apostles and the followers of Jesus immediately jettisoned Sabbath keeping and began meeting and worshiping on Sunday.

Why?

Isn't it obvious? Jesus took the very last Sabbath rest in the Tomb, and therefore fulfilled it, once and for all. It's purpose was done. Sabbatarians celebrate the dead Jesus on an obsolete day and the hopeless and lost disciples. Sabbath keeping from then on is an exercise in wretched despair and futility.

Christians by comparison, celebrate the Resurrection and the newly-reborn Disciples, who were suddenly transformed into mighty death-defying Apostles. Additionally, the tongues of fire that gave birth to the Christian Church happened on a Sunday 50 days later on the Day of Pentecost. This is why Sunday was known from the beginning as "The Lord's Day."

LarryP2 said:

Sabbatarian Christians conveniently pick and choose among the 613 Mosaic Laws that can be practiced publicly for the maximum demonstration of self-righteous pride.
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"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19.

Fortunately - the Bible flatly debunks that idea and so also do the Sunday Sources at the end of this post.

So it is not just Sabbath keeping Christians that "notice" the problem in the post above.

in Christ,

Bob

Sophrosyne said:

Jesus didn't teach that the 10 were separable from the 613. I challenge you to show he did and if you can't then I would say you have come to a man made (or woman made) conclusion.

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Not only does the Word of God in both OT and NT show the TEN commandments separate from all the others but SO also do all the Sunday Sources listed at the end of this post. The 1050 commands of the NT not withstanding.

So it is not just Sabbath keeping Christians that "notice this Bible detail".

in Christ,

Bob

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER. Not once do the Apostles tell the Christians they must keep the Sabbath, or any of the other 613 Commandments of Judaism. Sabbath Keeping has never been a part of genuine Christianity. Only quasi-Christian cults emphasize it.

Under Jewish law, circumcision is required before ANY of the Mosaic Laws can be kept. The Council of Jerusalem in AD 50 decided once and for all that the Gentile Christians would not be required to follow the Mosaic Law. Their duties were described in the Book of Acts and are parallel to the Noahide Law.

Seventh Day Adventism has a yearly stampede of 300,000 fleeing their cruel system of cult bondage. EVERY single significant doctrine of SDA has been soundly debunked by their own theologians! Not one of them has held up under scrutiny of their own Bible scholars! It is a cultish house of cards.

SDAs THINK they are keeping the Sabbath and brag loudly about their superiority over other Christians because of it, but in truth they do not keep the Sabbath. What they "keep" is a convenient, Americanized, sanitized, dumbed down, processed cheese-version of the Sabbath that bears absolutely NO resemblance to the Sabbath as kept by Jesus or anyone in the Old Testament.

Don't flatter yourself for imagining you have accomplished something you haven't. The only truly honest Sabbath Keepers are the ones who recently began also keeping the monthly, yearly and New Moons Sabbaths, all the Jewish feast days and some of them have built the necessary backyard temples to commence animal sacrifices, following the lead of Jesus who participated in both animal sacrifices and paid the Temple taxes The honest Sabbath keepers have searched out and find the Rabbis necessary to follow the Levitical food laws. If you are going to follow Jesus's example of Sabbath keeping and his perfect record on ALL of the Jewish laws, then you also have to follow all the other Mosaic Laws outlined above.

Just do not pretend this is Christianity. Because it isn't.

In the aftermath of SDA's Sabbath Scholar Dr. Samuelle Bachiochi's demolition of the culture that had developed over 150 years around SDA's version of the Sabbath, honest Adventists have followed his lead and are undertaking the necessary steps to follow ALL of the Jewish laws that are required. Furthermore, they have seen the necessity of rejectubg St. Paul as a "False Prophet" and someone who they claim
"illegitimately introduced Greek and Roman thought into Christianity." Notice how advocates of the Sabbatarian cult NEVER cite St. Paul for support for their system of cult bondage.

Big Red is on another thread on this subject honest about the tacit need for rejecting St. Paul and his Epistles and Luke when he wrote: "The answer will reveal that Paul and Luke had an anti-law agenda." Judaizers have consistently attacked St. Paul for that very reason, from the beginning of Christianity. Big Red at the very least has demonstrated that Sabbath Keeping and all of the other Mosaic Laws are incompatible with the Christian theology as given to us by the Apostle Paul.

The Judaizers that rejected St. Paul and his message of Christian freedom in Christ gradually degenerated into the Marcionite cult that over time simply became irrelevant to Christianity. Whereas the Gentile Christian community thrived and grew like wildfire.

Christianity has NEVER required Sabbath keeping.